Comparing Materials on Female Cardinals

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ClemtheCatholic

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How do you reconcile this with this:

Can. 351 1 Those to be promoted Cardinals are men freely selected by the Roman Pontiff, who are at least in the order of priesthood and are truly outstanding in doctrine, virtue, piety and prudence in practical matters; those who are not already Bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

?

Thanks, and God bless,
Clem
 
In “theory” it’s possible, similar to women priests. But I wouldn’t be too concerned about it. The media is always saying these things presenting them in the most favorable manner (to their point of view) but they never happen. Popes have officially ruled on woman priests, and if necessary I’m confident they would rule the same for Cardinals but I don’t see it as being necessary.
 
Women priest are not possible, even “in theory”.

Bl. John Paul II ruled definitively, in the infallible teaching authority of the ordinary Magisterium, that the Church has **no power **to ordain women. It’s not just that it won’t be done, it can’t be done.

Cardinal is a man-made office. The Pope could change that to mean something different than what it currently means, which might permit women to hold the office.

But the priesthood was made by God. No man, not even a Pope, or Ecumenical Council has any power to change it’s fundamental nature.

God Bless
 
This is the link to the Irish Times refrerenced. irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/vatican-dismisses-reports-of-women-cardinals-1.1582486 from which the following quote comes.
Since his election last March, Pope Francis has often spoken of the need to reassess the role of women in the Catholic Church.
In his ground-breaking August interview with Jesuit media, he said that “the church cannot be herself without woman”, adding that Mary “is more important than the bishops”.
In a September article, Juan Arias, a former Vatican correspondent for Spanish daily El Pais, floated the idea that one day, the pope might nominate a woman cardinal. Arias, who named no women candidates, based his speculation not only on Pope Francis’s comments but also on the role of the deaconess in the early Christian church.
So they get from the Pope saying they need to reassess the role of women in the Church that that means we can now have woman cardinals. Typical media.

To Bilop - I did say “similar to woman priest” not the same as. But thanks for clarifying, it’s what I meant even if I didn’t express it very well.
 
Using this:

Can. 85 A dispensation, or the relaxation of a merely ecclesiastical law in a particular case, can be granted by those who possess executive power within the limits of their competence, as well as by those who have the power to dispense explicitly or implicitly either by the law itself or by legitimate delegation.
 
Since the cardinals are the pool from which the Pope is drawn; I’d say that females there are as likely as an early-release program from Hell.

IMNAAHO. ICXC NIKA
 
Using this:

Can. 85 A dispensation, or the relaxation of a merely ecclesiastical law in a particular case, can be granted by those who possess executive power within the limits of their competence, as well as by those who have the power to dispense explicitly or implicitly either by the law itself or by legitimate delegation.
Right.

Some of Canon Law concerns things that are unchangeable as they concern doctrine. But not everything in canon law is of that sort. There are certain laws that could be changed by the proper ecclesial authority.
 
How do you reconcile this with this:

Can. 351 1 Those to be promoted Cardinals are men freely selected by the Roman Pontiff, who are at least in the order of priesthood and are truly outstanding in doctrine, virtue, piety and prudence in practical matters; those who are not already Bishops must receive episcopal consecration.

?

Thanks, and God bless,
Clem
How do you reconcile “state-funded abortions are theoretically possible in Texas” with the law that forbids state-funded abortions in Texas?

Ahh right, the law can change! More precisely the only impediment in TX to such abortions is the law as it is currently written. If the law were rewritten there would be no impediment.
 
Since the cardinals are the pool from which the Pope is drawn; I’d say that females there are as likely as an early-release program from Hell.

IMNAAHO. ICXC NIKA
Not in the early church. The Sacred College became the electors of the Pope only around 1059 +/- if memory serves (I’m not inclined to look it up, but it’s easy enough to do.)

Actually, any Catholic male can be elected Pope.

In fact, there is no immutable reason beyond Canon law and prudence that limits the election of Popes to the Sacred College. For about a 1000 years it was done otherwise. Canon law can be changed, and one can change one’s mind on matters of prudence.

Nonetheless, I, too, am not holding my breath awaiting any such change.
 
The simple answer is that the Pope can change or dispense from canon law. Currently all cardinals must be a priest or bishop. However, a Pope could conceivably appoint laymen or laywomen cardinals. As has been noted, cardinal is a man made office. In contrast, no Pope, no bishop can ever validly ordain women priests.
 
Using this:

Can. 85 A dispensation, or the relaxation of a merely ecclesiastical law in a particular case, can be granted by those who possess executive power within the limits of their competence, as well as by those who have the power to dispense explicitly or implicitly either by the law itself or by legitimate delegation.
Ah! I think that’s it! Thanks. 🙂
 
The theory is far beyond the current practice. As things stand now, there are zero lay cardinals. In fact I believe there are zero non-episcopal cardinals. The office of cardinal has always been a clerical one. Only in extraordinary circumstances have non-bishops been elevated to the dignity of cardinal. The last truly lay cardinal was created in 1620 at the age of ten. And, of course, elected Popes are customarily drawn from their ranks. So there are a number of hurdles to be addressed here before we can consider any woman being admitted to this office. The final one would never be cleared and woman cardinals would always be on a lower tier than the clerics likely to be Pope.

I suspect that we would see these hurdles being cleared one by one, slowly in consultation with at least the “Super 8” Cardinals, before we see a woman created cardinal at all. And I personally do not feel it will happen at all in our lifetimes. It is simply pie in the sky for the Fishwrap and its adherents.
 
The National Catholic Reporter is not a credible source. Its purpose is to push an agenda.
 
When ever I see comments by a lone person even a priest like these, I can only think this his beliefs and not the church’s, What’s the point of a Cardinal who can’t perform priestly ministries? They couldn’t hear confession, couldn’t bless anyone, couldn’t be the celebrant for any of the sacraments, and the list goes on. Why give someone a title that is pointless. It just sounds like more feminist mongering to me.
 
Being a Cardinal implies no particular sacerdotal role beyond that which he otherwise has by reason of ordination. Even electing the Pope is not a role associated with orders, per se. The role of a Cardinal today is: 1) to advise the Pope, 3) to do what the Pope asks in the administration of the Church and 3) to elect the Pope. None of those things requires someone be ordained. Certainly it is not pointless to advise, work and elect.

Historically, the Cardinals were the bishops or neighboring dioceses, and priests and deacons of Roman churches. As such they have historically been in orders. Only since John XXIII have all Cardinals been required to be bishops - unless dispensed, e,g, Cardinal Dulles. Only since the late 19th century or early 20th has the requirement been that Cardinals be priests. Indeed, Cardinal Mazarin, who was Louis XIV’s first minister for so long, was only a deacon.

Really, there is no dogmatic reason not to have women participate in a papal election. Before the Bull restricting election of the Pope to the Cardinals, when the Pope was acclaimed by the people of Rome presumably some women were involved in that action. Certain monarchs had an historic right of veto in Papal elections - presumably that would have extended to queens/empresses regnant, even if not ever exercised by a queen. Unlike being capable of receiving Holy Orders, merely participating in electing a Pope is not limited by sex.

I don’t think we will see women electors, but there is no reason beyond tradition (small case), prudence and canon law to bar women as a group.
 
Still, most Cardinals run a Archdiocese, still acting as a Bishop for their geographical area. Still performing the Sacraments and ordaining Priests. Would the sole jobs of these “Women” Cardinals be advising the Pope, administering the church, and electing a Pope? I think we are missing something here, by Ordination to the Episcopate a Bishop is given the charism for the Spirit of Truth to hand down the deposit of faith in Tradition. So as they are advising the Pope they are supposed to be lead by the Holy Spirit. Woman wouldn’t be given that because of the lack of being ordain to the episcopate. So I can’t see them being advisers in the same sense as a male Cardinal. What I see is a glorified secretary.
 
Besides which, the question would arise, given that the Church bars Cardinals from the conclave who are too old to become Pope, what is the rationale for admitting females to the conclave, unless the prospect exists that one day one may be elected Pope?

It may be technically acceptable, but only opens up a huge can of ticks.

ICXC NIKA
 
Cardinals 80 or older are too old to vote, nobody is too old to be Pope.
 
Still, most Cardinals run a Archdiocese, still acting as a Bishop for their geographical area. Still performing the Sacraments and ordaining Priests. Would the sole jobs of these “Women” Cardinals be advising the Pope, administering the church, and electing a Pope? I think we are missing something here, by Ordination to the Episcopate a Bishop is given the charism for the Spirit of Truth to hand down the deposit of faith in Tradition. So as they are advising the Pope they are supposed to be lead by the Holy Spirit. Woman wouldn’t be given that because of the lack of being ordain to the episcopate. So I can’t see them being advisers in the same sense as a male Cardinal. What I see is a glorified secretary.
As you allude, not all Cardinals run a diocese. Some amount to glorified bureaucrats - secretaries… Howevere, as they are all priests and bishops they perform their sacerdotal duties - in their sacerdotal capcity, not their cardinalatian capcity. I have no idea what the jobs of women cardinals might be…but advising, holding administrative positions and voting are all important, and not limited in any way due to sex. The Sacred College has no formal place in the Magisterium - so I’m not sure what point you are making with “handing down truth…” I suppose anyone advising the Pope can be led by the Holy Spirit - just as they might not be. Certainly St. Catherine of Sienna advised the Pope and most think she was led by the Holy Spirit. God also works through the laity. I’m not sure what pedestal you think the Bishops belong on, but a short romp through Church history will disabuse you of their univocal, unwavering fidelity and goodness. You may indeed see a glorified secretary, and others may see an inspiration.
 
Besides which, the question would arise, given that the Church bars Cardinals from the conclave who are too old to become Pope, what is the rationale for admitting females to the conclave, unless the prospect exists that one day one may be elected Pope?
Aside from having the facts wrong, the argument is a non sequitur. The rationale is to have the voice/(name removed by moderator)ut of a broader group in the election process. One may disagree with that. But, that is obviously the answer.
 
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