Concern as a parent over manga

[Whitacre_Girl]

That’s not a good generalization either as far as anime is concerned. True they have science-fiction but they’re capable of fantasy works too. Ever heard of Hayao Miyazaki? The man is known plenty for being an environmentalist and you can see it clearly in his films.

Why have you read every single manga in existence? The fact that you make such ignorant statements such as ‘shounen or above’ shows that you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

And mild? Saying words as graphic as ‘penis’, ‘breasts’, and ‘intercourse’ is equivalent to a lot of fan service shots I’ve seen. If you think the Book of Songs was my only example then you’ve got another thing coming. What about the scene where David was peeping on Bathsheba? Not unlike a lot of peeping tom scenarios I’ve read.

That isn’t to say I disregard the context. However, I wouldn’t disregard the context of manga either, unlike some people here who deny their crime of over-generalization.

Name-calling? I didn’t call you anything. I said your statement was over-generalizing. Read again. Also, proof read your posts (even after posting). Another confusing typo on your part has already proven to go a long way.

Way to miss my point. Gee, just because I speak against book burning, people here start accusing me of worshiping anime as my idol. Who’s the silly goose again here?

Lighten up indeed. I’d bet you’d tell Socrates to lighten up as well whenever you make an offense against reason and sensibility. You’d think if you spoke of burning the Koran or a copy of Dawkin’s God Delusion, I wouldn’t declare it stupid either? Gimme a break.

I had to chime in on the shounen or above comment to…what does that mean? Shounen is a genre of anime/manga, not a rating.

It’s like saying “Chick flick or above…”

 

[edwest2]

Oh really now? This is what we call someone giving up on an intelligent discussion, and lowering themselves to cheep insults.

Oh, dear, everything has a porn side. Books, movies, games…
If you’re going to automatically associate anime with porn, then you may aswell associate everything with porn.

I swear, I came to this forum because of a Catholic friend, and the knowledge that many Catholics have more common sense then Protestants…

Although this thread is certainly proving me wrong… Why must you all just get into flaming wars with eachother? Watching a bunch of Christians bicker with eachother over who’s right, and such… There’s something clearly wrong with this picture.

@ OP, the major question is your daughters age. While I think you’re already realizing this now, a lot of manga is mature.
I’m going to be honest: Angel Sanctuary is written by one of my favorite mangaka…
But it’s certainly not a series for a young, impressionable, audience.
As Shondrea stated earlier in this thread, while it isn’t exactly “Catholic friendly” it’s not filth either. (And it’s not some direct attack of Christianity, seeing as it hails from a country that views the Christian religion no differently than we view mythology of other civilizations.)

Personally, OP’s description of the series actually blows things out of proportion, it’s not quite as terrible as they’ve made it sound.

@ Whitacre_Girl - Be careful when lumping things into the shojo demographic. While it is targeted at younger girls, what’s okay in Japan is very different than what’s okay for western readers of the same age.
Most of my favorite manga is shojo, but it’s almost never of the fluffy and pink variety.
For instance, in the 90’s CLAMP wrote a series called X. It takes place in 1999, the apocalypse is upon us, and it blends together both christian and shinto elements together for its lore. And, while it is dark and gritty… It is also a shojo series. And it’s quite the polar opposite, for the same group who wrote Card Captor Sakura.

On this note, Angel Sanctuary is a shojo aswell.

Parents have every right to be concerned. Yes, Japanese and American culture are different, giving more valid reason for concern. The bottom line - read what your kids read and keep the garbage away from them whether it’s American or Japanese. And yes, the perverts are very fond of Japanese perverted manga.

God bless,
Ed

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

@ Whitacre_Girl - Be careful when lumping things into the shojo demographic. While it is targeted at younger girls, what’s okay in Japan is very different than what’s okay for western readers of the same age.
Most of my favorite manga is shojo, but it’s almost never of the fluffy and pink variety.
For instance, in the 90’s CLAMP wrote a series called X. It takes place in 1999, the apocalypse is upon us, and it blends together both christian and shinto elements together for its lore. And, while it is dark and gritty… It is also a shojo series. And it’s quite the polar opposite, for the same group who wrote Card Captor Sakura.

My bad…I thought I qualified my statement by saying shojo for younger girls…I guess I must have accidentally deleted it.

I’ve read/seen some pretty bad shojo myself, but I’ve found that in general, if it’s shojo rated for younger audiences, it’s pretty clean. So so shonen, for that matter, but shonen tends to have more violence in general. I personally am more of a fan of shounen for that matter, but I mine my choices pretty hard, usually letting a friend of mind reccommend series for me.

 

[NJJMBVB]

I had to chime in on the shounen or above comment to…what does that mean? Shounen is a genre of anime/manga, not a rating.

It’s like saying “Chick flick or above…”

True, but shounen is generally for teenagers, especially teenage boys. It is a very loose equivalent of PG-13.

 

[NJJMBVB]

That’s not a good generalization either as far as anime is concerned. True they have science-fiction but they’re capable of fantasy works too. Ever heard of Hayao Miyazaki? The man is known plenty for being an environmentalist and you can see it clearly in his films.

Agreed.

Why have you read every single manga in existence? The fact that you make such ignorant statements such as ‘shounen or above’ shows that you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Err…actually I do?

And mild? Saying words as graphic as ‘penis’, ‘breasts’, and ‘intercourse’ is equivalent to a lot of fan service shots I’ve seen. If you think the Book of Songs was my only example then you’ve got another thing coming. What about the scene where David was peeping on Bathsheba? Not unlike a lot of peeping tom scenarios I’ve read.

Context.

That isn’t to say I disregard the context. However, I wouldn’t disregard the context of manga either, unlike some people here who deny their crime of over-generalization.

Agreed. What is the context of manga, according to you?

Name-calling? I didn’t call you anything. I said your statement was over-generalizing. Read again. Also, proof read your posts (even after posting). Another confusing typo on your part has already proven to go a long way.

Way to miss my point. Gee, just because I speak against book burning, people here start accusing me of worshiping anime as my idol. Who’s the silly goose again here?

No, not because of that, but because of other threads I have read in which you have posted, such as “Strange Fantasies”. This isn’t to condemn you or anything, and anime may not even be your idol, as far as I know…I’m merely stating an opinion based on what I have read. And everyone has an idol (including me ); that’s what sin is. Our goal in this life is to recognize that while there is good in everything (including some manga/anime), God needs to be supreme.

Lighten up indeed. I’d bet you’d tell Socrates to lighten up as well whenever you make an offense against reason and sensibility. You’d think if you spoke of burning the Koran or a copy of Dawkin’s God Delusion, I wouldn’t declare it stupid either? Gimme a break.

No seriously. Book burning accomplishes nothing because sin is still in people’s hearts, just like gun control, media control etc. doesn’t work because there is still sin in people’s hearts. But I was joking. I thought it was pretty obvious

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

True, but shounen is generally for teenagers, especially teenage boys. It is a very loose equivalent of PG-13.

Uh…no…shounen means “for boys” and ranges from very young to adult…

Shojo means “For girls” and rates from very young to adult.

Shonen/shojo is the demographic/genre, ratings is for age.

To put western titles into this classification:

My Little Ponies is shojo, for young girls (rated G).

Bob the Builder is Shounen, for young boys (typically) (rated G)

Terminator is Shounen for adults (rated R)

The Notebook is shojo for adults/young adults (rated PG-13) (sorry, I couldn’t think of any rated R chick flicks, anyone with knowledge on that one can put a title in here if they want)

Shounen/shojo makes no claim to age appropriateness. The rating however, does.

 

[NJJMBVB]

Uh…no…shounen means “for boys” and ranges from very young to adult…

Shojo means “For girls” and rates from very young to adult.

Shonen/shojo is the demographic/genre, ratings is for age.

To put western titles into this classification:

My Little Ponies is shojo, for young girls (rated G).

Bob the Builder is Shounen, for young boys (typically) (rated G)

Terminator is Shounen for adults (rated R)

The Notebook is shojo for adults/young adults (rated PG-13) (sorry, I couldn’t think of any rated R chick flicks, anyone with knowledge on that one can put a title in here if they want)

Shounen/shojo makes no claim to age appropriateness. The rating however, does.

I still state that shounen is a very loose approximation of PG-13. Note very loose. I may be wrong, but let’s not derail this thread into a discussion of semantics; instead focus on the OP’s question. It appears that she is concerned about what the child is reading, and rightly so. Instead of focusing on whether manga is good or evil, let’s focus on the morality of the specific case. I would suggest sitting down with the child and laying out moral rules that any of her forms of entertainment need to follow, manga or otherwise. If a work stays within those guidelines, great! If not, well, time to burn-err, put it away

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I still state that shounen is a very loose approximation of PG-13. Note very loose. I may be wrong, but let’s not derail this thread into a discussion of semantics; instead focus on the OP’s question. It appears that she is concerned about what the child is reading, and rightly so. Instead of focusing on whether manga is good or evil, let’s focus on the morality of the specific case. I would suggest sitting down with the child and laying out moral rules that any of her forms of entertainment need to follow, manga or otherwise. If a work stays within those guidelines, great! If not, well, time to burn-err, put it away

Derail? I think all of this is perfectly relevant to the OPs concern. I doubt any of us agree that what she found her daughter reading is appropriate, rather those of us who know anime and manga well (I studied japanese culture for about a year in college) are putting forth how the entire realm of japanese entertainment works so that the OP is educated and can therefore better understand what ratings and genres mean so she can direct her daughter to more wholesome stories.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Err…actually I do?

No. You don’t. Honestly, the more I read your posts, the more I see that you don’t know squat about manga/anime.

Agreed. What is the context of manga, according to you?

You’re pretty much asking me to write a long essay discussing the fan service in every single title I’ve read in existence. If you ask me, that is derailing. The point is, just like the Bible, each manga has its own context. That should be enough for you to start backing off with your erroneous generalizations. True that there are works out there who take fan service over the top, but they’re only a fraction compared to others out there. Some use fan service for the sake of comedy. Others do it for the sake of realism. Explaining either of them though, would only waste more of the time I’ve already spent dealing with you.

No, not because of that, but because of other threads I have read in which you have posted, such as “Strange Fantasies”. This isn’t to condemn you or anything, and anime may not even be your idol, as far as I know…I’m merely stating an opinion based on what I have read.

This is the worst case of ad hominem I’ve ever encountered on the internet. Let’s see, throw in the fact that you have zero knowledge of anime/manga culture and your obvious capacity to make bad, sweeping generalizations, what makes you think this ‘opinion’ of yours was worth even posting? Stick to this thread and to the topic at hand.

True, but shounen is generally for teenagers, especially teenage boys. It is a very loose equivalent of PG-13.

Wrong. Shounen is a genre, not a rating. Here’s a definition taken from Anime News Network.

**
Shonen**

Demographic indicator for anime and manga aimed at boys. An obvious and common example of shōnen is “fighting” anime, where extremely powerful warriors duke it out amongst each other with various forms of martial arts and superpowers. Typical examples of this include Dragon Ball Z, Flame of Recca and Rurouni Kenshin.

Giant Robots (known as “Mecha” among English-speaking fans) are also a very common form of shōnen. What began with Mazinger Z eventually evolved into Gundam and Macross. Even though they are huge hulking machines that should have limited mobility, giant robots often display a flexibility and range of motion comparable to humans. For this reason, it has been commented that giant robots are more an extension/extrapolation of the knight/samurai’s armor than an anthropomorphization of tanks/war machines.

Despite a great increase in sophistication through the years, may shōnen anime remains largely centered on the resolution of conflicts through combat. However, that is not to say this is the only thing. If nothing else, this is proven by the large quantity of romantic comedy “harem” anime where a large cast of attractive females are vying for the attention of the (indecisive) male protagonist, like Tenchi Muyo! and Love Hina. Other examples of non-fighting shōnen anime are the sports anime like Initial D that are starting to make an impact in the West.

Besides violence or combat, one characteristic of many shōnen anime is a fast-paced story where action and adrenalin are emphasized over plot. There are exceptions to this, like the serious romantic stories of Oh My Goddess! and Boys Be…

I still state that shounen is a very loose approximation of PG-13. Note very loose. I may be wrong, but let’s not derail this thread into a discussion of semantics; instead focus on the OP’s question.

May be wrong? You’re 100% wrong. Furthermore, as Whitacre Girl has said, I think it’s better that you back off and let people who actually know their stuff do the talking.

 

[NJJMBVB]

Err…ok, let me list for you the anime that I can remember having watched:
Bleach
Evangelion (series and Rebuild)
Akira
Princess Mononoke
Ranma 1/2
Karas
Ghost in the Shell
Slam Dunk
Gantz
Death Note

But yeah, you’re right. I know nothing about it…
Also, I wasn’t making an ad hominem attack.
You said, Why do people always consider anime my idol when I mention book-burning?
I replied with the reason that I considered that to be the case.
You seem pretty angry about this. Sorry if I’ve offended you,I must have hit a raw NERV…

Couldn’t resist…

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Err…ok, let me list for you the anime that I have watched:
Bleach
Evangelion (series and Rebuild)
Akira
Princess Mononoke
Ranma 1/2
Karas
Ghost in the Shell
Slam Dunk
Gantz
Death Note

But yeah, you’re right. I know nothing about it…

Anybody can list a bunch of random titles on the internet and claim to have ‘watched’ them. You can’t even get the definition of shounen right, what makes you think this is convincing?

Also, I wasn’t making an ad hominem attack.
You said, Why do people always consider anime my idol when I mention book-burning?
I replied with the reason that I considered that to be the case.
You seem pretty angry about this. I must have hit a raw NERV…

Let’s see, you accuse me of idolatry based on a reading of another irrelevant thread that I wrote. That, buster, embodies the very essence of the term ad hominem.

If I sound angry it’s because I have a low tolerance for stupidity and ignorance. Anime has hardly anything to do with it. Its just something I happen to know a lot about (at least, a lot more than you).

Like Suni over there, I came on this site to escape this sort of idiocy that was so rampant on YouTube since I expected sites like this to have more intelligent posters. Luckily, it still hasn’t reached that level but I would appreciate if posters such as yourself would stop taking it there.

 

[NJJMBVB]

You know what? I’m not going to enter in to this with you. It’s derailing the thread.
Call me what you want: idiot, loser, buster(?), etc…it won’t affect me.
Maybe someday you’ll stop trying to escape from reality.

Peace be with you.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

You know what? I’m not going to enter in to this with you. It’s derailing the thread.
Call me what you want: idiot, loser, buster(?), etc…it won’t affect me.

Excuse me? You’re the one who was jumping on the idolatry bandwagon genius. If there was anyone who entered anything, it was you. If I accused you of justifying incest (as someone here already accused me), you’d be ticked off too.

Maybe someday you’ll stop trying to escape from reality.

Great, bailing out only with more ad homs. (And since you’re so desperately in love with that thread I wrote, you oughta read it again. You’re guilty of mischaracterizing it, not that it hasn’t been already.)

 

[Suni_Moon]

Actually, Lost Wanderer… Shonen and shojo are not genres… They’re demographics.
xD;;

All they refer to is a target age range and gender, not the actual contents of the show or manga.

Shonen means it’s targeted at boys of about ages 10 - 17
Shojo is the same age range, but for girls.

Seinen and josei are the adult equivalents.
BUT don’t assume that seinen and josei are smut…
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t…
But all seinen and josei mean are that the series is targeted to an adult audience…
This can be as simple as having the story contain subject matter that would be wordy and boring to a child. For instance, a series called Le Chevalier D’eon is seinen… Not because it’s smutty, but because it’s a period series, it’s excessively wordy, and it’s less about action and more about story.

It’s seinen because the audience that shonen is targeted at would probably get bored with it very easily.

Examples of genres would be… Romance, drama, comedy, horror, action, etc.
Whereas shonen, shojo, seinen, and josei are merely target audiences.

And please, please, please would you guys stop bickering, you’re both making fools out of yourselves, and it’s really not helping anyone.

 

[NJJMBVB]

I said I wasn’t going to post in this thread again, but I take that back for a moment…
I realize that I was too harsh.
I apologize to LostWanderer for calling you an idol-worshipper and trying to escape from reality. In truth, those are two sins that I myself struggle with every day.
I forgive you for calling me an idiot (which I am), and hope that you can forgive me.

Peace be with you.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I personally really loved the anime “Karin” but I haven’t read the manga. I admit, my funds are too limited for manga ATM.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Actually, Lost Wanderer… Shonen and shojo are not genres… They’re demographics.
xD;;

Yeah but honestly, I’m starting to believe it can be both. I’ve read a lot of mainstream shounen (with my favorites being Naruto and, recently, Fairy Tail as well as watched a great deal of Bleach and read some chapters of One Piece).

I gotta say, they all have a lot in common that goes beyond just age and gender… to the point that people call them generic. I mean you’ll always have your hot-blooded male lead. Then there’s the female lead that’s always ready to give them a whuppin’ in case they do something stupid. You have your bishie-esque rival character (that most often has a polar opposite hair color to the main dude for some reason). You get heavy servings of deux ex machina.

Granted the authors of such works have managed fairly well to make their stories as unique as possible (I could also highlight some major differences between individual titles). Still, I believe what I stated above has become a way to identify mainstream shounen. Its just more than age and gender now.

Seinen and josei are the adult equivalents.
BUT don’t assume that seinen and josei are smut…
Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t…
But all seinen and josei mean are that the series is targeted to an adult audience…
This can be as simple as having the story contain subject matter that would be wordy and boring to a child. For instance, a series called Le Chevalier D’eon is seinen… Not because it’s smutty, but because it’s a period series, it’s excessively wordy, and it’s less about action and more about story.

True that. Hence it’s important that we know the age of the OP’s daughter. I’m familiar with a fair few of seinen titles as well (and their stories are generally better in terms of depth) To list them here though might cause a bit of a stir since (as you have stated) seinen and josei tend to be put next to smut on the shelf (if not mixed). >_>;;

 

[Barbkw]

Wall of weird.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Wall of weird.

XD

Love it!

 

[vashsunglasses]

Manga is just like any other artistic medium, some works are good and some works are bad. Banning all manga is like banning all books or banning all movies, it’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

As a parent you should screen your child’s manga reading just like you screen any other books. Read them yourself and then make a judgment. Judge each series separately. Angel Sanctuary is a pretty twisted manga so I recommend banning that one from your home. Replace it with a more morally uplifting manga like Trigun, Rurouni Kenshin, or Fullmetal Alchemist. Trigun features a gunslinger protagonist who refuses to kill, no matter what. Rurouni Kenshin is about a young man who is trying to find redemption after committing crimes during a previous war. Fullmetal Alchemist is about two brothers who make a terrible error and spend years working hard to redeem themselves. None of these titles contain sex or strong language. They all contain some degree of mild violence but nothing gory.