Concerning the Charismatic Movement

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most of my contact with Catholic charismatics is through worship at Franciscan during summer conferences and at other times, and through contact with members of two parishes here who have at one time or another had a strong charismatic group active. In all these contacts I have been most impressed by the stress on the imporance of the Eucharist and promotion of Eucharistic Adoration.
 
puzzleannie said:
I have been most impressed by the stress on the imporance of the Eucharist and promotion of Eucharistic Adoration.

And they are also lectors, extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist and most of them are daily communicants. So what? These are all outward impressions. The charismatic doctrine is still full of errors.
 
It has been my experience that the Catholic Charismatic Renewal always draws us closer to the Sacraments and especially the Holy Eucharist. This is a sign that it is genuinely Catholic Charismatic.
 
Everyone,

I need to clarify what I’m looking for in regards to understanding what the CCR is truly about.

I know the Pope approves of the CCR but I have never seen or heard of him giving his approval of anything that interrupts the Mass.

Does anyone have any links that can help me understand the positive contributions to the entire body of Christ that the Pope sees?

What is the outward thrust of the CCR? Is there an outward thrust or is it all about little prayer groups here and there who all appear to be doing their own thing?

There has to be more than what has been presented here in CA so far or the Pope would not have made this request of them that I posted above.
Charismatics Urged to Promote Eucharist as Bond of Unity
Pope Sends Message to Catholic Fraternity

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=61224

Maria
 
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robertaf:
It has been my experience that the Catholic Charismatic Renewal always draws us closer to the Sacraments and especially the Holy Eucharist. This is a sign that it is genuinely Catholic Charismatic.
newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm

A woman in my prayer group claims that all of the reported Marian apparitions around the world must be from God because their messages are consistent with the Bible and call people to prayer and repentance. She says “the devil would never do anything which would draw people closer to God” and concludes that none of these apparitions could possibly come from the devil.

Your friend is wrong. The message of an alleged apparition is not the only thing on which that apparition’s authenticity should be evaluated. Besides, it’s up to the Church, not to an individual, to make that decision. There have been purported Marian apparitions, later judged by the Church to be spurious, whose messages, although sensational, seemed innocuous and not contrary to orthodoxy.

Your friend is also wrong to assume that the devil would never do something that would, ostensibly, draw people to God. In fact, although the devil’s ultimate goal is to remove each of us from God’s presence permanently, he sometimes uses ploys which seem to lead people toward holiness, yet which turn out to be cleverly devised traps designed to impede our progress toward God.

Consider what happened when Paul and Silas were preaching the gospel in Macedonia:
Code:
*As [they] were going to the place of prayer, [they] met a slave girl with an oracular spirit, who used to bring a large profit to her owners through her fortune telling. She began to follow Paul . . . shouting, "These people are slaves of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation." She did this for many days. Paul became annoyed, turned, and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her." Then it came out at that moment"* (Acts 16:16-18).
There are two important details to be aware of in this passage. Notice that it was a demonic spirit who was telling people to heed Paul’s teaching. The demon was calling people to believe the gospel which would, in the normal course of events, draw people to God. If you look closely you’ll also see there was an error subtly embedded in the demon’s message, “These people . . . proclaim to you a [not ‘the’] way of salvation,” implying that there are other ways to salvation. That is false, of course, and completely contrary to the gospel Paul was preaching.

There is only one way to salvation: through Jesus Christ alone. Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 [see John 10:9]). Peter echoed the Lord’s teaching, explaining, “There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12). The demon in Acts 16 was trying to introduce error sugar-coated by a perfectly laudable appeal to embrace the gospel.

**Never doubt that the devil can, if he thinks he needs to, use the incongruous ploy of urging us to turn to God as part of his larger plan of introducing error and exploiting religious fervor that’s not solidly grounded upon authentic Christian spirituality. That’s why the first pope warned us to be on guard against his wiles.
  • Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings ***(1 Pet. 5:8-9).
 
1 Maria:
Everyone,

I need to clarify what I’m looking for in regards to understanding what the CCR is truly about.

I know the Pope approves of the CCR but I have never seen or heard of him giving his approval of anything that interrupts the Mass.

Does anyone have any links that can help me understand the positive contributions to the entire body of Christ that the Pope sees?

What is the outward thrust of the CCR? Is there an outward thrust or is it all about little prayer groups here and there who all appear to be doing their own thing?

There has to be more than what has been presented here in CA so far or the Pope would not have made this request of them that I posted above.
Charismatics Urged to Promote Eucharist as Bond of Unity
Pope Sends Message to Catholic Fraternity

zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=61224

Maria
Maria, you need to understand that Pope’s endoirsement is not authoritative let alone infallible.We have seen Popes endorsed SSPX and heretics (Pelagius and Celestius).
 
Dear Maria,

No reliable information exists. People quote papal addresses to special interest groups, quote individuals who are close to the Pope etc. But there has been no papal encyclical or anything of worth that would indicate what the Vatican is really thinking. Sure there is an office to the Renewal in the Vatican, but then there are many offices in the Vatican for all sorts of reasons. The bottom line is, the renewal is not as significant or as important as its dedicated followers would like us to believe. No Catholic is bound to belong to it any more than some other type of lay initiated movement. One can be a devout spirit filled Catholic and never participate in a single charismatic prayer meeting. It is very difficult to figure out what Rome really thinks outside of the official releases and papal encyclicals. Even these are continually misrepresented or are misapplied by our leaders. One such example is Vatican II. Forty years passed and Vatican II is still not implemented or has been misinterpreted by the clergy. So if something as readily available as the final draft of the Vatican II council, how much more difficult would be to figure out the official approach toward a lay movement? Take a look at this off topic report; it deals with the general difficulties I am speaking about:

Special Report - Is the Vatican Being Ignored? - Brian K. O’Neel
 
beng said:
newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm

A woman in my prayer group claims that all of the reported Marian apparitions around the world must be from God because their messages are consistent with the Bible and call people to prayer and repentance. She says “the devil would never do anything which would draw people closer to God” and concludes that none of these apparitions could possibly come from the devil.

Your friend is wrong. The message of an alleged apparition is not the only thing on which that apparition’s authenticity should be evaluated. Besides, it’s up to the Church, not to an individual, to make that decision. There have been purported Marian apparitions, later judged by the Church to be spurious, whose messages, although sensational, seemed innocuous and not contrary to orthodoxy.

Your friend is also wrong to assume that the devil would never do something that would, ostensibly, draw people to God. In fact, although the devil’s ultimate goal is to remove each of us from God’s presence permanently, he sometimes uses ploys which seem to lead people toward holiness, yet which turn out to be cleverly devised traps designed to impede our progress toward God.

Consider what happened when Paul and Silas were preaching the gospel in Macedonia:

As [they] were going to the place of prayer, [they] met a slave girl with an oracular spirit, who used to bring a large profit to her owners through her fortune telling. She began to follow Paul . . . shouting, “These people are slaves of the Most High God, who proclaim to you a way of salvation.” She did this for many days. Paul became annoyed, turned, and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” Then it came out at that moment" (Acts 16:16-18).

There are two important details to be aware of in this passage. Notice that it was a demonic spirit who was telling people to heed Paul’s teaching. The demon was calling people to believe the gospel which would, in the normal course of events, draw people to God. If you look closely you’ll also see there was an error subtly embedded in the demon’s message, “These people . . . proclaim to you a [not ‘the’] way of salvation,” implying that there are other ways to salvation. That is false, of course, and completely contrary to the gospel Paul was preaching.

There is only one way to salvation: through Jesus Christ alone. Jesus said, “I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6 [see John 10:9]). Peter echoed the Lord’s teaching, explaining, “There is no salvation through anyone else, nor is there any other name under heaven given to the human race by which we are to be saved” (Acts 4:12). The demon in Acts 16 was trying to introduce error sugar-coated by a perfectly laudable appeal to embrace the gospel.

Never doubt that the devil can, if he thinks he needs to, use the incongruous ploy of urging us to turn to God as part of his larger plan of introducing error and exploiting religious fervor that’s not solidly grounded upon authentic Christian spirituality. That’s why the first pope warned us to be on guard against his wiles.

***Be sober and vigilant. Your opponent the devil is prowling around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, steadfast in faith, knowing that your fellow believers throughout the world undergo the same sufferings ***(1 Pet. 5:8-9).

Excellant post… informative, concise, on point, effective.
 
Everyone:

I believe I now have all the information regarding the CCR that I need at this time and I thank each one who has contributed to my understanding of the topic.

My conclusion for now is that the Pope has the grace to see the potential of the CCR; what it is called to become in the future when it matures.

I will pray regularly for his intentions in this regard.

Maria
 
Reguarding Acts16 vs16-18. This fortune teller who was demon possessed came after Paul and Silas. Thier[hidden] entent was to come and accuse them, for satan is the ACCUSER. Satan takes pieces of Gods truth and tries to use it for thier gain. This fortune teller had the demons exorcised out of her by Paul. Her demonic powers were now gone and now her master was angry because of loss of income and had Paul and Silas brought before the judges with false accusations and were beaten and whipped and thrown into jail. What happened next is that God turned evil into good and because of this situation Gods hand began to move. People in prison heard Paul and Silas singing and praying to the Lord. The Lord then freed them and the prisoner from Jail. Even the Jailer and his whole family came to know Jesus as Lord and Savior. So you see Jesus can take evil [fortuneteller] and turn it around for a good purpose and bring salvation to those who were in prison. Praise God 👍
 
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SPOKENWORD:
Reguarding Acts16 vs16-18. This fortune teller who was demon possessed came after Paul and Silas. Thier[hidden] entent was to come and accuse them, for satan is the ACCUSER. Satan takes pieces of Gods truth and tries to use it for thier gain. This fortune teller had the demons exorcised out of her by Paul. Her demonic powers were now gone and now her master was angry because of loss of income and had Paul and Silas brought before the judges with false accusations and were beaten and whipped and thrown into jail. What happened next is that God turned evil into good and because of this situation Gods hand began to move. People in prison heard Paul and Silas singing and praying to the Lord. The Lord then freed them and the prisoner from Jail. Even the Jailer and his whole family came to know Jesus as Lord and Savior. So you see Jesus can take evil [fortuneteller] and turn it around for a good purpose and bring salvation to those who were in prison. Praise God 👍
Well said! We should always be mindful never to limit the power and mind of God…some people tend to put Him in a box and call upon Him when it serves them or their agendas…
Annunciata:)
 
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Annunciata:
Maria, Thanks for this link…very interesting:hmmm: Our newly formed Rosary/Prayer group had just decided to have Eucharistic Adoration…we are still evolving…just letting the Holy Spirit lead for now! God Bless, Annunciata:)
Annunciata, I need to thank you for this post. For a newly formed group you show a lot of the maturity that is needed to help others as the Pope has asked of the CCR.

Being docile to what the Holy Spirit is asking of you and your group will bring others to join you in Eucharistic Adoration and they in turn will bring still others, and on and on.

Eucharistic Adoration continues to grow where the Eucharist is the Heart of the parish.

Maria
 
1 Maria:
Annunciata, I need to thank you for this post. For a newly formed group you show a lot of the maturity that is needed to help others as the Pope has asked of the CCR.

Being docile to what the Holy Spirit is asking of you and your group will bring others to join you in Eucharistic Adoration and they in turn will bring still others, and on and on.

Eucharistic Adoration continues to grow where the Eucharist is the Heart of the parish.

Maria
Thanks Maria… as it stand now our group grows to two or three new people each week…we mainly just pray the Rosary and meditate on the Gospel of the day and share some prayer intentions. We limit it to just one hour and we meet no matter what in the parish hall. Adoration was okay for the first time…I know Our Lady will point us in the right direction… God Bless,
Annunciata:)
 
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Annunciata:
Well said! We should always be mindful never to limit the power and mind of God…some people tend to put Him in a box and call upon Him when it serves them or their agendas…
Annunciata:)
So, are you saying that it’s OK for the Devil to draw people to God, even if it’s part of his ploy, because God will take care of it?

God certainly can brings the good out of the bad. But that doesn’t mean, “Let’s do the bad so the good will come”. This idiotic reasoning is condemned by Paul (Rom 6:1-2)
 
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beng:
So, are you saying that it’s OK for the Devil to draw people to God, even if it’s part of his ploy, because God will take care of it?
Beng, shame on you! That is not what she said at all. Why would you put such awful words in Annunciata’s mouth. She is a beautiful woman of God.
 
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robertaf:
Beng, shame on you! That is not what she said at all. Why would you put such awful words in Annunciata’s mouth. She is a beautiful woman of God.
Then let her explain. You do see the question mark right?
 
If I were her, I wouldn’t dignify it.

I have read many of your posts and I find it amazing how you spend your time with these darts shot at your brothers and sisters in Jesus. Whatever you do to the least of His brothers and sisters, you do to Him.

Something to think about.
 
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