concerns about freemasonry

[gamewell45]

Perhaps Rome knows better

Read some Albert Pike.

If you read the Preamble in each of Albert Pikes works, you’ll find that he states the opinions are his and only his and do not represent Freemasonry.

People tend to throw his name around quite a bit without taking the time to fully read his books. But in all fairness, at times i’m guilty of failing to read preambles as well.

 

[Brian_H]

Would make sense, if masonry was something like a teaching on the universe. Which of course our knowledge gained.

Masonry must first change and adopt more Catholic-friendly ways. This is not something that we can just learn through advancement of technology.

Just like women becoming Priest. Such will not change.

You are trying to compare apples to oranges.

You said that the Pope speaks the truth and that they can later change their position, thereby changing the truth. The Church’s position has always been that the truth is NOT relative, in contradiction to your claim. My statement was a response to your ridiculous statement. Freemasonry isn’t unfriendly to Catholicism, Catholicism is hostile to Freemasonry, that hostility is baseless.

 

[Brian_H]

Defend these satanic organizations at your own peril.

I’m not persuaded by threats. You are free to believe any lunatic conspiracy theories you like and good luck with that. Maybe check out some of the conspiracy theories that claim Freemasonry controls the Catholic Church or the other conspiracy theories that claim the Catholic Church controls Freemasonry, and if you get bored, check out the conspiracy theories that claim Islam was started by the Catholic Church, and have yourself a good ole time.

 

[Brian_H]

Did not cardinal ratzinger CLEARLY STATE later that papal infallibility did in fact apply? '**October 28, 1995

Dubium: Whether the teaching that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women, which is presented in the Apostolic Letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis to be held definitively, is to be understood as belonging to the deposit of faith.

Responsum: In the affirmative.

This teaching requires definitive assent, since, founded on the written Word of God, and from the beginning constantly preserved and applied in the Tradition of the Church, it has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal Magisterium **(cf. Second Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Church Lumen Gentium 25, 2). Thus, in the present circumstances, the Roman Pontiff, exercising his proper office of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32), has handed on this same teaching by a formal declaration, explicitly stating what is to be held always, everywhere, and by all, as belonging to the deposit of the faith.’

That is not the point, the point is that there are a multitude of positions taken by the Pope in which Papal Infallibility does not apply.

 

[EzraJacob]

You said that the Pope speaks the truth and that they can later change their position, thereby changing the truth. The Church’s position has always been that the truth is NOT relative, in contradiction to your claim. My statement was a response to your ridiculous statement. Freemasonry isn’t unfriendly to Catholicism, Catholicism is hostile to Freemasonry, that hostility is baseless.

Again.

Teaching something that was true during the time of that it was true according to the technological abilities of that era is one thing. Ex. the universe and the world.

Teaching something that has no link towards anything that can be enlightened by technological advancement is something else. No matter how technologically advanced we get, wont matter when it comes to masonry, women priest and gay priest.

I’ll repeat myself again, prove what you claim.

 

[TrentCath]

That is not the point, the point is that there are a multitude of positions taken by the Pope in which Papal Infallibility does not apply.

right so you do admit that in reality women can never be ordained priests?

And frankly I don’t see why Papal Infallibility was even brought up, do you think you only have to believe Pope’s when they speak infallibly? Do you think its alright to believe whatever you want unless its infallible or do you even deviate from the Popes infallible teaching? Have you read any catechism or the declarations of Vatican I on the obedience owed to the Pope and the bishops?

 

[EzraJacob]

That is not the point, the point is that there are a multitude of positions taken by the Pope in which Papal Infallibility does not apply.

But Papal authority has declared it.

 

[jam070406]

That really isn’t an honest answer then; its more of an opinion on your part.

It’s an honest answer. The Masonic ideals of enlightenment and freedom from religion have led our country to adopt man made laws that contradict Divine law under the guise of “rights”.

 

[gamewell45]

It’s an honest answer. The Masonic ideals of enlightenment and freedom from religion have led our country to adopt man made laws that contradict Divine law under the guise of “rights”.

Well sir, with all due respect; this is a topic that you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on.

Peace

 

[jam070406]

I have to disagree with you; being a Freemason, I can honestly tell you that Freemasonry encourages each Brother to be steadfast in the faith of his belief. Hence, there is no “dogma” in Freemasonry that shuns God and jeopardizes souls.

This is one reason that Catholics cannot be Masons. All religions do not lead to God and are not on equal footing.
We are called to spread the Gospel. Affirming someone in their false belief is not charity.

Btw, please tell everyone the secret Oaths you’ve taken.

The lodges are not only comprised of Christians, but people of the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and other faiths.

There are oaths, temples and an altar. Yet you say there is no religious element.
What degree Mason are you? Why does Albert Pike affirm that Masons worship Lucifer in his morals and dogma?

Since we don’t discuss religion nor politics in open lodge, Jesus does not take a “back seat” in the Lodge as you appear to maintain.

You contradict yourself. If Jesus is forbidden to talk about then you have indeed have placed Masonry before Jesus.

 

[Brian_H]

Again.

Teaching something that was true during the time of that it was true according to the technological abilities of that era is one thing. Ex. the universe and the world.

Teaching something that has no link towards anything that can be enlightened by technological advancement is something else. No matter how technologically advanced we get, wont matter when it comes to masonry, women priest and gay priest.

I’ll repeat myself again, prove what you claim.

I have a hard time following that because it requires the suspension of all my faculties of reason and common sense. I’m not the one trying to prohibit something, therefore the burden of proof is not on me. The burden of proof lies with the Church because it is attempting to prohibit something. If you have a problem with that, please review Canon Law. I can see why you want to shift the burden of proof, you have no evidence.

 

[Brian_H]

right so you do admit that in reality women can never be ordained priests?

And frankly I don’t see why Papal Infallibility was even brought up, do you think you only have to believe Pope’s when they speak infallibly? Do you think its alright to believe whatever you want unless its infallible or do you even deviate from the Popes infallible teaching? Have you read any catechism or the declarations of Vatican I on the obedience owed to the Pope and the bishops?

If it isn’t Infallible teaching, then it’s just a person’s opinion. If the Pope or a bishop tries to tell me I can only eat sausage pizza, I’m going to ignore them. Papal Infallibility was brought up because you claim encyclicals are evidence, the encyclicals regarding Freemasonry are not infallible and they are not evidence that establishes Masonic practices, you are the one that claims they are. I’m obedient to Church authorities as long as they are acting pursuant to the power given to them by Christ, when they exceed that authority, then what they say is of no concern as it is their own opinion.

 

[Brian_H]

But Papal authority has declared it.

What is the antecedent of your pronoun?

 

[Brian_H]

This is one reason that Catholics cannot be Masons. All religions do not lead to God and are not on equal footing.
We are called to spread the Gospel. Affirming someone in their false belief is not charity.

Btw, please tell everyone the secret Oaths you’ve taken.

There are oaths, temples and an altar. Yet you say there is no religious element.
What degree Mason are you? Why does Albert Pike affirm that Masons worship Lucifer in his morals and dogma?

You contradict yourself. If Jesus is forbidden to talk about then you have indeed have placed Masonry before Jesus.

By your reasoning, Catholics shouldn’t be Boy Scouts or members of any other non-denominational civic group.

Pike didn’t say Masons worship satan, during the Leo Taxil hoax, Leo Taxil said that Pike said that Masons worship satan. Then Taxil admitted everything he said about Masonry was a lie because he wanted to make Masonry and the Catholic Church look foolish. Please educate yourself.

Masons can speak to other Masons about their religious beliefs outside of the Lodge if they are so inclined.

 

[gamewell45]

This is one reason that Catholics cannot be Masons. All religions do not lead to God and are not on equal footing.
We are called to spread the Gospel. Affirming someone in their false belief is not charity.

Btw, please tell everyone the secret Oaths you’ve taken.

There are oaths, temples and an altar. Yet you say there is no religious element.
What degree Mason are you? Why does Albert Pike affirm that Masons worship Lucifer in his morals and dogma?

You contradict yourself. If Jesus is forbidden to talk about then you have indeed have placed Masonry before Jesus.

Your certainly entitled to your opinion whether I or anyone else in here agrees or disagrees with you.

There is no need to tell everyone the “secret oaths” I’ve taken. Most people know them; if you don’t know them, you can find them in the library of congress. Your going to have to do some homework for a change! Best of Luck.

 

[jam070406]

By your reasoning, Catholics shouldn’t be Boy Scouts or members of any other non-denominational civic group.

The Boy Scouts are a secret society that take oaths, if told, are threatened by death??
This giant red herring aside, the Church says Catholics are forbidden to be Masons. That is the subject you keep trying to divert and spin.

Pike didn’t say Masons worship satan, during the Leo Taxil hoax, Leo Taxil said that Pike said that Masons worship satan. Then Taxil admitted everything he said about Masonry was a lie because he wanted to make Masonry and the Catholic Church look foolish. Please educate yourself.

No, He said they worship Lucifer, the light bearer. Seek the light young Mason!

“Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” [Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321]

Masons can speak to other Masons about their religious beliefs outside of the Lodge if they are so inclined.

Seek the light! The grand architect is the light bearer, Lucifer.

 

[TrentCath]

If it isn’t Infallible teaching, then it’s just a person’s opinion.

You have no idea whatsoever about the different levels of obedience owed to The Pope and Bishops do you?

If the Pope or a bishop tries to tell me I can only eat sausage pizza, I’m going to ignore them.

As people of your type do, you bring up a ridicalous and extreme example to support your point of view.

Papal Infallibility was brought up because you claim encyclicals are evidence, the encyclicals regarding Freemasonry are not infallible and they are not evidence that establishes Masonic practices, you are the one that claims they are.

Indeed they are evidence, evidence of the ‘Sententia Communis’ (The Common Belief of the Church over the ages), this common belief is that Freemasonry is wrong and opposed to the Catholic Faith. To reduce the obedience owed to the pope to only applying to when the Pope speaks infallibly is completely contrary to the teachings of The Church.

I’m obedient to Church authorities as long as they are acting pursuant to the power given to them by Christ, when they exceed that authority, then what they say is of no concern as it is their own opinion.

Who made you judge of when the Church authorities do and don’t exceed their authority or even what their authority is? It is clear to anyone reading this that you are not a Roman Catholic but a Roman Protestant who believes he only has to follow the churches teachings when it suits him.

 

[jam070406]

Your certainly entitled to your opinion whether I or anyone else in here agrees or disagrees with you.

There is no need to tell everyone the “secret oaths” I’ve taken. Most people know them; if you don’t know them, you can find them in the library of congress. Your going to have to do some homework for a change! Best of Luck.

I thought you were a Christian?? You deny that the only way to the Father is through Jesus?
This is not my “opinion”

I’d rather you told us the oath. That way I know it comes directly from the source. People have been criticized for not going to the true source. So you are it. Let’s have it.

 

[gamewell45]

It is clear to anyone reading this that you are not a Roman Catholic but a Roman Protestant who believes he only has to follow the churches teachings when it suits him.

Please try not to insult other religions in here; it is against forum rules.

 

[jam070406]

Please try not to insult other religions in here; it is against forum rules.

Hold on a second. It’s ok for certain people to slander Popes as conspiracy theorists and liars and bash the Catholic Church, and you’re admonishing this poster to not insult other religions??

I didn’t see him say anything bad about other religions.