concerns about freemasonry

[Brian_H]

heres a good article catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/freemasonry/cathason.htm
what im getting at is and this article explains it quite well, is that freemasonry offers an agenda and philosphy that is alternative, unreconcilable and therfore opposed to the Catholic Church and therefore opposed to God so therfore opposed to truth, which therefore puts it in league with satan, who is the father of lies.
its not really that complicated.
so any loyal and God fearing catholics would stay well away from freemasonry and their oaths. especially sinse the Church has declared that "Catholics who join the Masons are in the state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. "

There are several problems with your article and your post. Freemasonry is not conspiring against the Catholic Church. The evidence provided to show a conspiracy is the Catholic Church’s pronouncements against Freemasonry. With all due respect to the author of the article, that is totally illogical. That would be like using a Chick Tract as evidence to support the position of Jack Chick’s positions. Pope Leo XIII’s assessments are incorrect and without merit. In Humanum Genus Pope Leo condemns not only masonry, but democratic governments and freedom! His positions are not based upon any evidence, but his own bias against masonry. Freemasonry is not a religion, Freemasons are forbidden from talking about religion or politics within a lodge. Freemasons must believe in God, beyond that their religious beliefs are their own business. Freemasonry’s agenda is to be a fraternity and do charity work, what is wrong with that? Should Kiwanis, Lions, Rotary, etc be forbidden as well? Your entire argument is built upon an incorrect assumption, everything that follows is incorrect and illogical as well. I do agree that when you make illogical conclusions and arguments, then things aren’t very complicated.

 

[jam070406]

There are several problems with your article and your post. Freemasonry is not conspiring against the Catholic Church. The evidence provided to show a conspiracy is the Catholic Church’s pronouncements against Freemasonry. With all due respect to the author of the article, that is totally illogical. That would be like using a Chick Tract as evidence to support the position of Jack Chick’s positions. Pope Leo XIII’s assessments are incorrect and without merit. In Humanum Genus Pope Leo condemns not only masonry, but democratic governments and freedom! His positions are not based upon any evidence, but his own bias against masonry. Freemasonry is not a religion, Freemasons are forbidden from talking about religion or politics within a lodge. Freemasons must believe in God, beyond that their religious beliefs are their own business. Freemasonry’s agenda is to be a fraternity and do charity work, what is wrong with that? Should Kiwanis, Lions, Rotary, etc be forbidden as well? Your entire argument is built upon an incorrect assumption, everything that follows is incorrect and illogical as well. I do agree that when you make illogical conclusions and arguments, then things aren’t very complicated.

It says you are Catholic but you act more as a Masonic apologist.
In case you are unclear, it is forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason.

 

[regression]

Catholics ARE NOT excommunicated for becoming Freemasons. Please review the 1983 Code of Canon Law. Under the old Code of Canon Law they were, that is not the case any more. I would direct anyone that disagrees to Canon 1374 which forbids membership in organizations that plot against the government or the church.

You might want to read this article, specific the last few paragraphs.

ewtn.com/library/answers/camason1.htm

 

[kinja]

You might want to read this article, specific the last few paragraphs.

ewtn.com/library/answers/camason1.htm

Thanks for that regression. 2 Timothy 4:3-4 is so pertinent today. Why do we so hate the truth sometimes?

 

[Brian_H]

It says you are Catholic but you act more as a Masonic apologist.
In case you are unclear, it is forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason.

I am a Catholic and I’m not unclear about anything, apparently many of you are though. It is not forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason. Canon Law does not prohibit it. I have asked several priests and I have not found one that shares your opinion, not withstanding the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger. I found the statement about hating the truth very interesting, because it is people within the Catholic Church and evangelical fundamentalists that use lies and misinformation to attack Freemasonry, an organization that hasn’t done anything to the Church or evangelicals. Catholics that attack Freemasonry with lies are no better than Jack Chick attacking the Catholic Church with lies, that is the truth and some of you should think about that and do some serious research because I have. My position is based on evidence and the truth rather than uninformed prejudice and misinformation.

 

[regression]

It is not forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason. Canon Law does not prohibit it. I have asked several priests and I have not found one that shares your opinion, not withstanding the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger.

See this:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

You and the priests who said it is not prohibited to be a Freemason are wrong.

 

[jam070406]

I am a Catholic and I’m not unclear about anything, apparently many of you are though. It is not forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason. Canon Law does not prohibit it. I have asked several priests and I have not found one that shares your opinion, not withstanding the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger. I found the statement about hating the truth very interesting, because it is people within the Catholic Church and evangelical fundamentalists that use lies and misinformation to attack Freemasonry, an organization that hasn’t done anything to the Church or evangelicals. Catholics that attack Freemasonry with lies are no better than Jack Chick attacking the Catholic Church with lies, that is the truth and some of you should think about that and do some serious research because I have. My position is based on evidence and the truth rather than uninformed prejudice and misinformation.

It’s odd how Masons get so worked up over something that is no big deal.
To the point of calling Popes prejudice liars.
Official documents forbid membership in the secret Masonic orders.
What is so compelling is that some would put Masonry above God’s Church. Strange indeed.
I’ve done the research. But what does it matter? People like you will tow the Mason party line, toss out the same tired arguments and continue to dissent from the Church.

 

[kinja]

I am a Catholic

Not sure if that’s true given your choice.

It is not forbidden for a Catholic to be a Mason. Canon Law does not prohibit it.

Whoa. Did you even read the information on newadvent, catholic.com and ewtn. All accepted sources for information on Catholic beliefs, doctrine and history? They all reiterate:

The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374).

You need to check the right sources brother.

I have asked several priests and I have not found one that shares your opinion, not withstanding the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger. I found the statement about hating the truth very interesting, because it is people within the Catholic Church and evangelical fundamentalists that use lies and misinformation to attack Freemasonry, an organization that hasn’t done anything to the Church or evangelicals. Catholics that attack Freemasonry with lies are no better than Jack Chick attacking the Catholic Church with lies, that is the truth and some of you should think about that and do some serious research because I have. My position is based on evidence and the truth rather than uninformed prejudice and misinformation.

Methinks Someone is in denial. Btw … no one says you can’t leave the frat, renounce it and receive reconciliation. Once you are alive there is always hope of redemption.

 

[kinja]

I have asked several priests and I have not found one that shares your opinion, not withstanding the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger.

If what you say it true then these priests would be committing sin if they were, with full knowledge of the Church’s stance on same, leading members astray with misinformation.

Freemasonry, an organization that hasn’t done anything to the Church or evangelicals.

Neither have most people practicing witchcraft but it is still an affront to God yes?

My position is based on evidence and the truth rather than uninformed prejudice and misinformation.

No I think your position is based on either feelings or personal bias but certainly not evidence as the Church has made her position clear on the matter several times. Freemasonry is irreconcilable with Catholicism. Any Catholic joining a masonic lodge does so under pain of excommunication. Full Stop.

 

[Brian_H]

First of all I’m not a Mason. And thank you for insulting me by saying that I’m not Catholic. Judge not lest ye be judged. My source for that is Jesus if you are curious. Again, Canon 1374 does not mandate excommunication, but a just penalty for membership in groups that plot against the Church or government. I would suggest you review the plain language of the Canon as it is very clear. Freemasonry does not plot against the Church or the government, therefore Canon 1374 does not apply to Freemasonry. Furthermore, excommunication is not implicit in the Canon. This leaves Cardinal Ratzinger’s statement as your only evidence that Catholics cannot be Freemasons. His statement was incapable of modifying Canon Law and it was his opinion that Catholics that are Freemasons are in a state of grave sin. His OPINION is misconstrued as authoritative by anti-masons. FYI, there is a difference between grave sin and excommunication. I am also fascinated that so many of you know more than priests. There has not been a shred of evidence offered by anyone to suggest Freemasons plot against the Catholic Church and the reason for that is simple, Freemasons don’t plot against the Church. The Church has said that Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion, it is not, it is a fraternity that promotes brotherhood, equality, and charity. I can only speculate that the Church feels threatened by Freemasonry because it promotes tolerance of other religions. I would point out that Jesus said to love one another. A lot of you have apparently forgotten that and prefer intolerance and bigotry. Why do some of you and the Church feel the need to threaten people with excommunication? Your argument is “do what we say or you are going to hell”. I’m not persuaded by threats.

 

[regression]

First of all I’m not a Mason. And thank you for insulting me by saying that I’m not Catholic. Judge not lest ye be judged. My source for that is Jesus if you are curious. Again, Canon 1374 does not mandate excommunication, but a just penalty for membership in groups that plot against the Church or government. I would suggest you review the plain language of the Canon as it is very clear. Freemasonry does not plot against the Church or the government, therefore Canon 1374 does not apply to Freemasonry. Furthermore, excommunication is not implicit in the Canon. This leaves Cardinal Ratzinger’s statement as your only evidence that Catholics cannot be Freemasons. His statement was incapable of modifying Canon Law and it was his opinion that Catholics that are Freemasons are in a state of grave sin. His OPINION is misconstrued as authoritative by anti-masons. FYI, there is a difference between grave sin and excommunication. I am also fascinated that so many of you know more than priests. There has not been a shred of evidence offered by anyone to suggest Freemasons plot against the Catholic Church and the reason for that is simple, Freemasons don’t plot against the Church. The Church has said that Freemasonry is a naturalistic religion, it is not, it is a fraternity that promotes brotherhood, equality, and charity. I can only speculate that the Church feels threatened by Freemasonry because it promotes tolerance of other religions. I would point out that Jesus said to love one another. A lot of you have apparently forgotten that and prefer intolerance and bigotry. Why do some of you and the Church feel the need to threaten people with excommunication? Your argument is “do what we say or you are going to hell”. I’m not persuaded by threats.

Please read this:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

Specifically this part:

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

It seems that is a little more than just someone’s opinion.

 

[Brian_H]

Neither have most people practicing witchcraft but it is still an affront to God yes?

I’m pointing out what Canon Law states, so this statement is totally irrelevant. Are you claiming Freemasons practice witchcraft or have other practices that are an affront to God? If so, please point them out. And please refer to actual masonic practices, not misinformation from Leo Taxil. Thanks

 

[regression]

Also, I am not saying I know more than priests… Not everything a priest says is 100% correct. They may be misinformed just like some people here are on what the Church teaches. It is in black and white from the Vatican that Catholics are prohibited from joining masonic organizations.

 

[Brian_H]

Please read this:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

Specifically this part:

In an audience granted to the undersigned Cardinal Prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this Declaration which had been decided in an ordinary meeting of this Sacred Congregation.

It seems that is a little more than just someone’s opinion.

I disagree and so does every priest I have asked about Freemasonry. It is not a Papal declaration, it is a declaration from a Vatican Office and the Pope approved it to be published. If the Pope approves publication of a childrens book, would that modify Canon Law?

 

[jam070406]

If you are not a Mason how do you know what goes on at higher levels behind the lodge door?

 

[Brian_H]

Also, I am not saying I know more than priests… Not everything a priest says is 100% correct. They may be misinformed just like some people here are on what the Church teaches.

I agree with that much, there are a lot of misinformed Catholics posting rubbish on here.

 

[regression]

I disagree and so does every priest I have asked about Freemasonry. It is not a Papal declaration, it is a declaration from a Vatican Office and the Pope approved it to be published. If the Pope approves publication of a childrens book, would that modify Canon Law?

Did you even read the link? :banghead:

 

[Brian_H]

If you are not a Mason how do you know what goes on at higher levels behind the lodge door?

Because it’s in BOOKS. Master Mason is the highest level. Uninformed people think 32 or 33 degree Scottish Rite are high level Masons. That is because they don’t know what they are talking about. A Master Mason can become a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason in their first day in Scottish Rite, what’s more is that most of them do. Becoming a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason involves watching a few plays. Again, you can read about all the Scottish Rite degrees in books.

 

[Monica4316]

iv been reading the marian movement of priests book “to the priests” and one message in it that i found quite interesting was the one titled “the beast like a leopard” in which our Blessed Mother reaveals that the black beast described in the book of revalations is symbolic of freemasonry, which is subtley and covertly setting itself in opposition to the ten commandments of God, and the practice of christian virtue.
it got me wondering if any connection can be made between the increasingly athiest, and seemingly satanic agenda being pushed through, advertising, clothing design, tv, movies etc, and freemason corprate success.
i dont want to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but i know the messages in the marian movement of priests book have been approved as trustworthy by the church and im inclined to agree.
so im curious about peoples opinions on this.

I think that could be true… I mean, just read this article about Our Lady of Good Success it’s an approved apparition. olrl.org/prophecy/goodsuccess.shtml

The Catholic Church has always forbidden Catholics from being freemasons, and this is still the rule today - as Pope Benedict clarified, when he was a Cardinal.

God bless!

 

[jam070406]

Because it’s in BOOKS. Master Mason is the highest level. Uninformed people think 32 or 33 degree Scottish Rite are high level Masons. That is because they don’t know what they are talking about. A Master Mason can become a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason in their first day in Scottish Rite, what’s more is that most of them do. Becoming a 32 degree Scottish Rite Mason involves watching a few plays. Again, you can read about all the Scottish Rite degrees in books.

So your whole argument fails because you actually have zero clue whether there is plotting against the Church going on in Lodges because you have never actually been there to witness one way or the other. But you bash Church Teaching, Popes, informed Catholics because you read a book.