concerns about freemasonry

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Brian_H said:
Neither have most people practicing witchcraft but it is still an affront to God yes?

I’m pointing out what Canon Law states, so this statement is totally irrelevant. Are you claiming Freemasons practice witchcraft or have other practices that are an affront to God? If so, please point them out. And please refer to actual masonic practices, not misinformation from Leo Taxil. Thanks
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I never said that Freemasons practice witchcraft (although you raise a good point since historically many high ranking freemasons and other lodge members seemed to have had an unhealthy fascination and interest in the occult: Albert Pike, etc.) I was merely making th point that freemasonry as a religion/society/whatever does not have to actively and openly attack Catholicism or Christianity in order for the Church to disapprove of it’s flock taking up membership. Witchcraft is also not approved oof and I don’t think that witches have “done” anything literally to the Church.

By the way Cannon Law states that any Catholic who enrolls in a masonic lodge is guilty of grave sin and excommunicates himself and should not receive the Precious Body of Christ. Have you not been reading the relaible links being posted for you on the Church’s position on masonic lodges? Only the spiritually blind can still argue in the face of the facts.

If the Church says so then nothing your parish priest can say will change that as the vatican website rightly states.
 
kinja said:
I never said that Freemasons practice witchcraft (although you raise a good point since historically many high ranking freemasons and other lodge members seemed to have had an unhealthy fascination and interest in the occult: Albert Pike, etc.) I was merely making th point that freemasonry as a religion/society/whatever does not have to actively and openly attack Catholicism or Christianity in order for the Church to disapprove of it’s flock taking up membership. Witchcraft is also not approved oof and I don’t think that witches have “done” anything literally to the Church.

By the way Cannon Law states that any Catholic who enrolls in a masonic lodge is guilty of grave sin and excommunicates himself and should not receive the Precious Body of Christ. Have you not been reading the relaible links being posted for you on the Church’s position on masonic lodges? Only the spiritually blind can still argue in the face of the facts.

If the Church says so then nothing your parish priest can say will change that as the vatican website rightly states.
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Meh, that’s just misinformed rubbish. :rolleyes:
 
jam070406 said:
So your whole argument fails because you actually have zero clue whether there is plotting against the Church going on in Lodges because you have never actually been there to witness one way or the other. But you bash Church Teaching, Popes, informed Catholics because you read a book. :rolleyes:
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Interesting logic. How do you know Jesus is real? It’s just in a book.
 
Brian_H said:
Interesting logic. How do you know Jesus is real? It’s just in a book.
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I have Faith. And I trust the Church that bears witness to Him.
The one He established. The one that says Catholics are forbidden to be Freemasons.
 
jam070406 said:
I have Faith. And I trust the Church that bears witness to Him.
The one He established. The one that says Catholics are forbidden to be Freemasons.
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You have faith, so what your saying is that you have no evidence. So by your logic you don’t know what you are taking about.
 
Brian_H said:
Interesting logic. How do you know Jesus is real? It’s just in a book.
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No historians has been using a fictional man as a yardstick to measure time in history AD or BC and his miracles and teachings, life and death were a total fabrication and tens of thousands of people had one big hallucination…they never saw him or heard him. 👍

If I may. I “believe” Jesus is real. Even though both theistic and atheistic scholars all attest to the reality of his existence we also have the Church tradition preserved so well over thousands of years both verbally and in writings by not just Gospel writers but other great men of the Church. The Bible, given to the world by Mother Church, is undisputedly the most accurate, undefiled and authentic compilation of historic and religious writings in the world.

Nothing like the unverified writings of some person on freemasonry. BTW if becoming a 33rd or 32nd degree mason was as simple as watching a few plays don’t you think everyone in the lodge would be a 33rd degree? You actually buy this stuff and question the Bible of all books?
 
Brian_H said:
You have faith, so what your saying is that you have no evidence. So by your logic you don’t know what you are taking about.
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What are you talking about? What are you trying to prove or justify? Freemasonry is not an option for anyone who wants to remain or become Catholic. Why is that so hard for you to accept? That’s the way it is. Your disagreement with the Church’s ruling does not change anything except possibly your status (current/excommunicated).
 
kinja said:
No historians has been using a fictional man as a yardstick to measure time in history AD or BC and his miracles and teachings, life and death were a total fabrication and tens of thousands of people had one big hallucination…they never saw him or heard him. 👍

If I may. I “believe” Jesus is real. Even though both theistic and atheistic scholars all attest to the reality of his existence we also have the Church tradition preserved so well over thousands of years both verbally and in writings by not just Gospel writers but other great men of the Church. The Bible, given to the world by Mother Church, is undisputedly the most accurate, undefiled and authentic compilation of historic and religious writings in the world.

Nothing like the unverified writings of some person on freemasonry. BTW if becoming a 33rd or 32nd degree mason was as simple as watching a few plays don’t you think everyone in the lodge would be a 33rd degree? You actually buy this stuff and question the Bible of all books?
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There is only one contemporary historian that wrote about Jesus, Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. A.D. 100). Many atheist historians don’t think Jesus was real.

As far as Scottish Rite is concerned, it is that simple. Look for info about the Scottish Rite Valley in your area and look for the upcoming Fall Reunion. That is when the plays are put on. Some Masons become York Rite Masons, others become Shriners, some just want to stay in the Blue Lodge, and some do everything. There are membership fees and dues with all the bodies and members have time constraints. Why don’t all Catholics become Knights in K of C? The same reason not all Masons become Scottish Rite Masons.
 
GeorgeTheWild said:
gamewell, I hope you don’t mind if I jump in here.

The oaths are almost all in the Library of Congress archive, you can look them up for yourself.

Episcopal != Catholic

I didn’t realize that Mary was so against fraternity and charity.
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Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut; well said.👍
 
kinja said:
Good question. I really don’t think he is anymore. Heretics are herretics not Catholics.
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You disagree with me so you call me a heretic? That’s very Christian of you. Are you going to try and burn me at the stake?
 
Brian_H said:
I’m not calling the Church a liar, I’m pointing out how absurd your argument was.
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There is no argument between you and jam but you disagree with a ruling of the Church (Bride of Christ) and therefore you disagree with Jesus Himself and have excommunicated yourself I think.
 
kinja said:
There is no argument between you and jam but you disagree with a ruling of the Church (Bride of Christ) and therefore you disagree with Jesus Himself and have excommunicated yourself I think.
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So I’m going to hell because I don’t think like you? Again, that is very Christian. Jesus said love one another, I think you disagree with Christ’s teachings and maybe that should cause you some concern.
 
Brian_H said:
You disagree with me so you call me a heretic? That’s very Christian of you. Are you going to try and burn me at the stake?
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I can’t do anything to you. You would be doing it all to yourself by you disobedience to the Church which is one with Jesus Christ himself.
 
Brian_H said:
So I’m going to hell because I don’t think like you? Again, that is very Christian. Jesus said love one another, I think you disagree with Christ’s teachings and maybe that should cause you some concern.
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Disagree with the church = disagree with Jesus Christ

The church says no to freemasonry, you say it’s ok.

Do the math.
 
kinja said:
Disagree with the church = disagree with Jesus Christ

The church says no to freemasonry, you say it’s ok.

Do the math.
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The Church (Pope Leo XIII) said democracy and freedom are sinful. The Church says no to freedom and democracy, I assume you think democracy and freedom are ok. What about that math?
 
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