Condom Removal and College

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Lazerlike42:
This is serious stuff here. If we are going to be Catholic and follow the Church’s teachings, and follow God, we have to be serious about it. We can’t go making excuses for things. If you want to make excuses and try to find “loopholes” for why it’s ok to throw the condoms away, you may as well try to make excuses for why it’s ok to use them in intercourse. There’s no difference. We have to uphold morality not only when it benefits us, but regardless of how it affects us, and regardless of how it affects Christ. He was telling the truth, so He could have used that as an excuse to get Himself off of the cross, but He didn’t. He held to the Truth even when it led Him to death. Sure, I would love to throw them away. I am in that type of situation many times during my day. However, I can’t do these things, even for Christ. If I do, I’m sinning against Him. I can’t do that. We can’t make exceptions just because it favors us or it favors God. Sin is sin, no matter who it benefits. If we start doing that, we’re hypocrites. Hypocrites aren’t gonna make it to the Kingdom of God.
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I would agree with you here if we were talking about going to a drug store and stealing the condoms.
As I see it here the university is giving away the condoms as a “gift”. To me its like if a protestant (or any other non-Catholic religion) leaves a panphlet on your windshield car. The purpose is to try you to convert to their religion, but that does not mean you cant do whatever you want with the panphlet.
What if someone would leave a bag of condoms on the hood of your car or in the front door of your home? Would it be ok to throw the condoms away then?
 
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Catolico:
I would agree with you here if we were talking about going to a drug store and stealing the condoms.
As I see it here the university is giving away the condoms as a “gift”. To me its like if a protestant (or any other non-Catholic religion) leaves a panphlet on your windshield car. The purpose is to try you to convert to their religion, but that does not mean you cant do whatever you want with the panphlet.
What if someone would leave a bag of condoms on the hood of your car or in the front door of your home? Would it be ok to throw the condoms away then?
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There’s a major difference. Those would be being given specifically to you as a gift of some sort.

The condoms in this instance are not. They are being provided by the school for a specific purpose for the community as a whole. Taking them all and throwing them away would be roughly equivalent to… at my local hardware superstore, there are dispensers outside of nylon rope for people to use to tie large products to their cars with. You can take as much as you want, and it is free. So people use it to tie things onto their cars all the time. But what if someone just walked up, without the intention of using any of the rope, and took the whole strand. Would that be ok? No, it wouldn’t be. St. Thomas Aquinas explained how just because the actual object of an action, the goal you are achieving, is good, that does not mean the action it self can’t be evil.
 
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Lazerlike42:
St. Thomas Aquinas explained how just because the actual object of an action, the goal you are achieving, is good, that does not mean the action it self can’t be evil.
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I agree with this. We disagree on the intention of the university. Again I believe they see this as a “gift” to the students.
I think we should take into consideration that they are putting the condoms on the dorms (either on or just outside the OPs door) It may be a college dorm, but during the time students are there it is their home. In my college there was a huge bowl with free condoms in the student health center. Of course I didnt like it, but at least it was in a more common area than right outside my door in the dorms.
 
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bapcathluth:
I guess your reasoning is because it is immoral in your opinion, then it is not sinful to steal them.
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The issue in question isn’t whether it’s okay to do wrong (steal, take another’s property unlawfully) in order for good to come of it. The question is, since the items belong to no-one in particular (rendering them unable to be stolen) but are free to be taken in whatever numbers you like, is it then okay to take them all and dispose of them. I would think that is morally permissable, considering the circumstances.
 
There is probably some liberal twit saying:

see…I told you it was good to get those for the students, they are being used. We better buy more.
 
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Lazerlike42:
Idk… you can never do an evil act to reach a good end. The school is providing them for a particular purpose. You are doing something else with them. Is it ok? I think it depends on if the people paying for them would consider what you are doing theft. If they would, I don’t think it’s permissable.
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Leaving condoms aside I don’t agree with your first sentence.

I have read what many priests said, been told by a priest when I asked a question and watched priests on EWTN and ALL of them said the end, no matter how good, never justifies the means, if the means is not good. I don’t agree with the argument that if the end is good then the means to that end cannot be evil. That’s an argument that can justify murder.
 
Well, how would you feel if there were a bag of rosaries for passersby, and an anti-Catholic fundie kept throwing away the whole bag because they sincerely believed that the Rosary is satanic? I mean, they might honestly believe that they’re saving souls by throwing away rosaries…

I suppose you could argue “Well, that’s different, because THEY would be wrong and I am right” but I think we have to remember that we live in a society with a lot of different beliefs. We have to tolerate our neighbor’s beliefs if we want to have any hope of them tolerating us. (Abortion, of course, is a different matter entirely - to oppose abortion is to try and save lives.)
 
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katybird:
Well, how would you feel if there were a bag of rosaries for passersby, and an anti-Catholic fundie kept throwing away the whole bag because they sincerely believed that the Rosary is satanic? I mean, they might honestly believe that they’re saving souls by throwing away rosaries…

I suppose you could argue “Well, that’s different, because THEY would be wrong and I am right” but I think we have to remember that we live in a society with a lot of different beliefs. We have to tolerate our neighbor’s beliefs if we want to have any hope of them tolerating us. (Abortion, of course, is a different matter entirely - to oppose abortion is to try and save lives.)
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If the rosaries were inside a Catholic Church I would believe they are wrong on throwing them away. Now, if you leave a bag of rosaries in a dorm (student´s home during school) of a secular college, I guess you take your chances.
Of course in this second example I would also think they are wrong, but it would be a different situation IMO.
 
Boldly throwing condoms away in the middle of the day, with a loud comment to the effect that they are garbage, is one thing.

Sneaking around in the middle of the night to dispose of them is quite another. If you are doing this then your conscience has already convicted you.
 
That is very true. I don’t think I would dump them, lest someone really does think they are “being put to good use.” Perhaps a call to the dean or an anonymous note tapes to the top of the bag that charitably states that you don’t support contraception will do.

We have a program in my town (a college town) where local businesses have condoms in a bowl by the registers in their stores. Next to the bowl there is a sign that says “Babies are expensive, condoms are cheap…take one”

I have thought many times about “taking some” and them throwing them away in a garbage can right outside the door so that they get my point.

What do you guys think?
 
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thistle:
Leaving condoms aside I don’t agree with your first sentence.

I have read what many priests said, been told by a priest when I asked a question and watched priests on EWTN and ALL of them said the end, no matter how good, never justifies the means, if the means is not good. I don’t agree with the argument that if the end is good then the means to that end cannot be evil. That’s an argument that can justify murder.
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Aren’t you both saying the same thing? Ends don’t justify means?
 
I am tempted to suggest you take 1 condom, blow it up and hang it from your door. Then also hang a string with a pin on it and post a sign saying, “Aids is going to burst your bubble.”

I’m not super creative. I think you should dream up a good display to put on right next to that condom dispenser.

I would think one condom would be within the scope of what the college had in mind. However, if it doesn’t seem in that scope, then buy your own to make a display.

Maybe a picture of a pin would be better, so no one accuses you of putting holes in the condoms in the bag. You never know.😦 You see why I am not very creative. Find an idea that will work!
 
Well, the intent of the people giving away the condoms is probably that people take what they “need”, so taking all of them is contrary to the intent of the giver; therefore, it is probably stealing.

Look at it another way. Muslims believe that drinking alcohol is a sin. If someone is giving away free beer, is it okay for a Muslim to take all of it so that decent beer-drinking people can’t have any?

Whether it’s beer or condoms, I don’t think this is the right way to spread the message.
 
:confused: Maybe remove them and attached a sticker to them and return with the message “Think before using! The only thing 100% effective against STDs and pregnancy is abstinence” 😉
 
Number one, they were left there to take and to use them how you want to use them. If he chooses to throw them away, that is not stealing them. It was left there for the taking. To take them!!! What one does with them after they are in his posession is up to the person.

I think that we have lost the point to this post. He was asking a question and yet again we have lost the point. Can we all just go the original question and reply?
 
To clarify my situation at Yale:

The bag hangs across from my door not on my door.

There is no sign saying “take one”, you can take as many as you need.

I think Yale intends for me to use them for sex, although if I took them and say made balloons out of them there would be no punishment, not even a verbal admonishment.

However, if Yale found out that I was taking them because of moral objection they would probably have a problem with it.

The administration would never do anything that would upset the feminists and liberals. So it would be impossible to have the bag removed by the proper authorities.
 
don’t know why you felt compelled to post your story on every forum, but I do give you points for most arresting title for a thread
 
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Pug:
I am tempted to suggest you take 1 condom, blow it up and hang it from your door. Then also hang a string with a pin on it and post a sign saying, “Aids is going to burst your bubble.”

I’m not super creative. I think you should dream up a good display to put on right next to that condom dispenser.

I would think one condom would be within the scope of what the college had in mind. However, if it doesn’t seem in that scope, then buy your own to make a display.

Maybe a picture of a pin would be better, so no one accuses you of putting holes in the condoms in the bag. You never know.😦 You see why I am not very creative. Find an idea that will work!
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I’m saying what all priests that I have listened to have said: The end does NOT justify the means.
 
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thistle:
I’m saying what all priests that I have listened to have said: The end does NOT justify the means.
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I’m not sure which thing I said triggered this message. I agree that a person may not do a bad thing so that a good thing will result. Do you object to making a display to counteract the other display? I see nothing wrong with a display on your door, unless it violates dorm rules. Do you object to the display of a condom as immoral? Or is it that I suggested buying one to use in the display?

I would not have thought it fundamentally wrong to purchase a condom for some purposes, seeing as how they are regularly used in ultrasound tests for a legit purpose. They do not seem completely evil to me for that reason. However, buying one could be construed as material cooperation with an evil company. I hadn’t considered that at all. Is that what you wanted me to consider?
 
If you are allowed to i would suggest putting up a sign against contraception, but throwing them away is wrong.

devils advocate : o well there arent any condoms left, tonight ill take i chance = abortion.
 
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