Condom use and Catholic church's postition?

[NewAgeCatholic]

'As I’ve said, I wished we never had a need for condoms. I don’t advocate these to use as a contraceptive as they can and do fail, slip, break, etc. Use in connection with a spermicide foam for that idea of avoiding preggers, but as to STD’s they can be very effective indeed for a two bit cost and they can be obtained for free from clinics. If abstaining is not going to be for you or your partner’s way condoms are at the minimum a must. It takes two to tango and I hope one of the two will choose to abstain… However, NAC is a realistic person unlike some posting here.

 

[OLHope]

'As I’ve said, I wished we never had a need for condoms. I don’t advocate these to use as a contraceptive as they can and do fail, slip, break, etc. Use in connection with a spermicide foam for that idea of avoiding preggers, but as to STD’s they can be very effective indeed for a two bit cost and they can be obtained for free from clinics. If abstaining is not going to be for you or your partner’s way condoms are a the minimum a must. It takes two to tango and I hope one of the two will choose to abstain… However, NAC is a realistic person unlike some posting here.

I can see what you are saying, but I have a concern as you are new and asking all these questions about the hypocrisies of the church and areas of science, health, and sex that well…, seems like you give more faith in medicine/media that is just as man-made as the the histories of faithful men that came to know Jesus and write about him. I have a deep concern about this because you stated in another thread that you do not have a teen daughter. This does not mean you do not have a son, nor the chance, that someday, you may have a daughter. So since you did not respond that. I will just look up your past posts to see if the info is there. Im glad that you were celibate for so long, you can teach that to latter generations and hope for the best.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

I can see what you are saying, but I have a concern as you are new and asking all these questions about the hypocrisies of the church and areas of science, health, and sex that well…, seems like you give more faith in medicine/media that is just as man-made as the the histories of faithful men that came to know Jesus and write about him. I have a deep concern about this because you stated in another thread that you do not have a teen daughter. This does not mean you do not have a son, nor the chance, that someday, you may have a daughter. So since you did not respond that. I will just look up your past posts to see if the info is there. Im glad that you were celibate for so long, you can teach that to latter generations and hope for the best.

The Catholic church is the only one for me and not just by inheritance. I’ve read enough as an adult to know which is for me. None are perfect imo. I’m not likely to agree with 100% of the teachings and interpretations, but God and Jesus in what I believe from their mouth is what I try to follow, but I always have questions. That’s just my way and why I pray to Jesus every day and as to my beliefs, he does not push me to sway too far away. I hope you can understand my strife but also my joy in my faith.

 

[OLHope]

The Catholic church is the only one for me and not just by inheritance. I’ve read enough as an adult to know which is for me. None are perfect imo. I’m not likely to agree with 100% of the teachings and interpretations, but God and Jesus in what I believe from their mouth is what I try to follow, but I always have questions. That’s just my way and why I pray to Jesus every day and as to my beliefs, he does not push me to sway too far away. I hope you can understand my strife but also my joy in my faith.

Well said, I happen to be a moderate, its just that the church makes more sense than so much of what I learn in medicine and politics, so…, oh well, here is to us and our own judgments/problems/sins, it is what we are supposed to be concentrating on anyway. Cheers!

 

[Watchman]

I am aware of no time in our history when condoms were more readily available. I am also aware of no time in our history when STD’s were more common. I’m certainly not suggesting that condoms are the main cause of STD increases, but they are certainly not the solution.

What most people fail to realize is that belief in condom use and belief in chastity are not two opposing ends of the spectrum, but both are proposed solutions to the problem of STD’s. I often see condom supporters arguing that chastity requires that people change their lifestyles, but condoms don’t. This is not true. For condoms to be maximally effective, a number of specific lifestyle changes must be in place. Proximity to condoms is not enough. They must be used in a specific way and with 100% frequency and even then their protection is not total.

BOTH proponents of condoms and proponents of chastity are asking people to modify their activities. Both fail when people do not use them consistently. The difference is, condoms also fail in instances where the user did everything “right”. To propose the false security of condom use over the true security of chastity merely because the solution seems more palatable to our society is a crime. “This Chastity life vest is guaranteed to keep you afloat, but it only comes in orange. Try this Condom life vest. Sure, it allows you to sink, eventually, but you’ll look stylish on the way down.”

 

[edwest2]

Good advice. We should not enable people who have difficulty with certain things. When did self-control become impossible? I can guarantee zero STDs and 100% protection: don’t have sex. First, growing up I heard how sex education will educate people and that would solve the problem. Then I heard handing out condoms would help people who perhaps couldn’t afford them and that would solve the problem. And then I heard about all the new STDs and AIDS and people dying, and that has not solved the problem.

Self-control is the answer, both physically and spiritually. Instilling values in children is a must, not handing out condoms, not believing that they can’t control themselves. As I attempted to point out earlier, if the outside world is promoting sexual activity 24/7, how about dealing with that? Genital herpes is no big deal, just use this product? That’s not the answer. The answer is to actually get to know the people you meet.

On a practical level, people complain about health care costs. One in five people have an STD. This is better?

Peace,
Ed

 

[choy]

Actually, Condum use DOES prevent the spread of diseases. If they are used correctly.
They also prevent preganancy, when used correctly. It’s as much as an accepted fact as life beginning at conception.

That does not make condum use moral, not at all. I have my opinions about them, but we must be honest first-saying they don’t work or some other foolishness is sort of like saying cigarettes don’t cause lung cancer or HIV doesn’t lead to AIDS.

yup, condom use prevents 90-something percent of pregnancies and transmission of STDs

but there’s something better. 100-percent no pregnancies, 100-percent no STDs

its called abstinence

 

[johngh]

You want to know the only real way to stop the spread of HIV/AIDS? It’s simple. Abstience. And this is not just my Catholic’ness saying this. This position, which was put forth by the Pope pretty strongly, has been affirmed by many in the academic world, including some supposedly brilliant expert at Harvard.

The real problem is when we start saying “well people are going to have sex anyway, therefore condoms are a necessary evil”. Admittedly this does have some merit to it, but to be perfectly frank, so long as we settle for an allegedly lesser evil (though I think that can be argued), nothing will ever change. If we want the problem of HIV and AIDS to stop it is going to have to come from either a cure (and who know’s how long it will be before we have one, if ever) or from a moral revolution. Condoms do not solve anything, and in fact a lot of data shows that they only worsen the problem by giving people the illusion that they can have sex without consequences.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

Education is key as to proper use of condoms. Just handing these out is not the answer, I agree. Ideally these people should be otherwise 100% celibate, but that’s not going to happen for many if we are being realistic. I can recall when couples before marriage were looked upon in utter disdain when they lived together and maybe even slept together and had sex. Living in evil sin in the eyes of the Church. What…the back seat of the ole Caprice was not roomy enough at the drive in theater?
Nowadays, I don’t know of many who had not lived together before marriage, do you? It can be more economical for some I suppose, like showering together to save water.

 

[gearhead]

Catechism of the Catholic Church page 570 (CCC)2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods,is in conformity of the objective criteria of morality. 158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast,“every action which, whether in anticipation of the congugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the developmentof its natural consequences, proposes,whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil.

And once sex is occurring outside of marriage, all that is out the window. Yes, the Catholic Church says that God doesn’t like condoms. Yes, it says that God doesn’t like sex outside marriage. Exactly when has it said that if sex outside marriage does occur, God would prefer it to be condom-free?

At a public policy level, a vote against birth control is a vote for increased abortion.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Education is key as to proper use of condoms. Just handing these out is not the answer, I agree. Ideally these people should be otherwise 100% celibate, but that’s not going to happen for many if we are being realistic. I can recall when couples before marriage were looked upon in utter disdain when they lived together and maybe even slept together and had sex. Living in evil sin in the eyes of the Church. What…the back seat of the ole Caprice was not roomy enough at the drive in theater?
Nowadays, I don’t know of many who had not lived together before marriage, do you? It can be more economical for some I suppose, like showering together to save water.

Yes, education is the key.
No, ignorance is the key to proper use of condoms.

 

[rpp]

Yes, education is the key.
No, ignorance is the key to proper use of condoms.

 

[orange2001]

I think we all agree that condoms can be helpful in limiting the spread of HIV/STDs. However, why preach a remedy when we can preach a prevention? The best solution for prevention of HIV/STDs is abstinence!

If we all live and practice what the Catholic Church teaches, and live by the law of God, then we should having nothing to worry about. As we’d remain virgins until marriage, and then enjoy all the sex we want (well most of the times! LOL) without having to worry about STDs.

I’ve heard people say that HIV is God’s punishment for those who fornicate. I don’t buy it one bit! If anything, it’s a disease that comes from the devil. Fortunate are we, that God is so loving and merciful that he has given us his law, and if abide by it, then we’ll be protected from such diseases.

The solution is abstinence, NOT condoms! Condoms only promote fornication.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

I think we all agree that condoms can be helpful in limiting the spread of HIV/STDs. However, why preach a remedy when we can preach a prevention? The best solution for prevention of HIV/STDs is abstinence!

If we all live and practice what the Catholic Church teaches, and live by the law of God, then we should having nothing to worry about. As we’d remain virgins until marriage, and then enjoy all the sex we want (well most of the times! LOL) without having to worry about STDs.

I’ve heard people say that HIV is God’s punishment for those who fornicate. I don’t buy it one bit! If anything, it’s a disease that comes from the devil. Fortunate are we, that God is so loving and merciful that he has given us his law, and if abide by it, then we’ll be protected from such diseases.

The solution is abstinence, NOT condoms! Condoms only promote fornication.

All forms of education/instruction as to options/choices are worth while. One is not above the other to limit STD’s and the horrid HIV. Preaching to abstain is important but not fool proof as to compliance. In one ear and out the other for many as to that solution. That’s getting real about it. Let’s not live in a fantasy world when it comes young people and what they want to do or will do. For many the between the legs rule how they behave sexually than between the ears. It’s sad but true.

 

[Paul1961]

. For many the between the legs rule how they behave sexually than between the ears. .

And it has been this way since the beginning. Adultery is a major theme of the Bible.

Back a few decades ago, it was scandalous to live together before marriage. Do fool yourself. Premarital sex was taking place and always has. What has changed is the casual “hookup” mentality.

If you dare, ask you parents,grandparents, aunt, and uncles, if they waited for their wedding night.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

And it has been this way since the beginning. Adultery is a major theme of the Bible.

Back a few decades ago, it was scandalous to live together before marriage. Do fool yourself. Premarital sex was taking place and always has. What has changed is the casual “hookup” mentality.

If you dare, ask you parents,grandparents, aunt, and uncles, if they waited for their wedding night.

It was true in my parents and grandparents case and many aunts and uncles as you suggest. The good ole days and when a dollar was a dollar and gold was not $1040. an ounce. Congrats to our church on the gold by the way.

But, yes, the old days, you would not kick the tires and go for a test drive. It was trusting for true love that it would work. They made it work. It is was not true for any of my nieces and nephews as maybe not for yours. They try before they buy for a year or so which may not be a bad idea. So many, they say half of anyone married will be divorced. It’s a throw away society today.
Personally, I have no children nor have I been married. The love of my life, same situation for us both as young folks, we planned marriage but she was killed and went to be with the Lord as a result of an auto accident. I miss that angel on earth, but my loss is God’s gain.

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

As a single person, I can tell you this: I don’t need condoms, because I’m not sexually active. Realistic or not, works for me. Also, I would never carry condoms with me “just in case”. Similarly, I’m a nonsmoker and feel like I don’t need to keep cigarettes in my house, just in case that I would be tempted to smoke. Regarding the risk of STDs, it works perfect for me. I never worry about STDs, because abstinence protects me from those and it works better than condoms - it has 0% failure rate. By contrast, condoms do have a non-negligible failure rate with respect to the transmission of STDs. Being an uncle who truly loves and cares about his nephew and niece, I would truly and sincerely never recommend them anything else than abstinence before marriage, and faithfulness to their respective spouses if they do get married.

In addition, I don’t get why the case of African people would be different from mine and my family’s. I would never recommend anything else to a friend, acquaintance, or even to a stranger from Africa. Abstinence for single people and faithfulness of married people to their spouses, works perfect and gives a 0% failure rate in protecting African people from AIDS. The programs based on abstinence and marital fidelity have been very effective against HIV/AIDS, in African countries such as Uganda.

 

[Watchman]

Preaching to abstain is important but not fool proof as to compliance.

Neither is condom use foolproof as to compliance. I don’t understand why lack of compliance is an argument against teaching abstinence but also not an argument against teaching condom use. Both methods are susceptible to non-compliance issues (no pun intended), however with abstinence, compliance is 100% effective. With condom use, total compliance in the best cases often leads to failure.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

As a single person, I can tell you this: I don’t need condoms, because I’m not sexually active. Realistic or not, works for me. Also, I would never carry condoms with me “just in case”. Similarly, I’m a nonsmoker and feel like I don’t need to keep cigarettes in my house, just in case that I would be tempted to smoke. Regarding the risk of STDs, it works perfect for me. I never worry about STDs, because abstinence protects me from those and it works better than condoms - it has 0% failure rate. By contrast, condoms do have a non-negligible failure rate with respect to the transmission of STDs. Being an uncle who truly loves and cares about his nephew and niece, I would truly and sincerely never recommend them anything else than abstinence before marriage, and faithfulness to their respective spouses if they do get married.

In addition, I don’t get why the case of African people would be different from mine and my family’s. I would never recommend anything else to a friend, acquaintance, or even to a stranger from Africa. Abstinence for single people and faithfulness of married people to their spouses, works perfect and gives a 0% failure rate in protecting African people from AIDS. The programs based on abstinence and marital fidelity have been very effective against HIV/AIDS, in African countries such as Uganda.

Your way or the highway. Yeah, they may snuggle up to that now that you’ve professed the true way and one way in life. I don’t argue against it as have used the idea myself. If 50 of 100 follow you and 50 do not, we’ve still a problem here. As the Lord might suggest, when a shepherd has 100 sheep and loses one, he may leave his 99 doing just fine, in order to seek the one lost and find a way to bring that one back into protection. It’s nice and wonderful if it all goes according to Hoyle, but oft times, there is many a slip betwixt the cup and the lip.

 

[gearhead]

Neither is condom use foolproof as to compliance. I don’t understand why lack of compliance is an argument against teaching abstinence but also not an argument against teaching condom use. Both methods are susceptible to non-compliance issues (no pun intended), however with abstinence, compliance is 100% effective.

Abstinence education, OTOH, has an absolutely abysmal compliance rate. It’s no coincidence that the areas with “abstinence only” sex ed have the highest rates of teen pregnancy.

With condom use, total compliance in the best cases often leads to failure.

Not so much. Every source of statistics for STDs or pregnancy in condom users that I’ve seen has included all users, even those who are sexually active but only use condoms some of the time, or those who use condoms incorrectly (e.g. reusing them). When condoms are used properly, they’re an excellent defense against STDs and unwanted pregnancy.