The article would have more credibility if it had been written by a biologist.Why are you working so hard to oversell evolution? The following article was written by a member of the National Academy of Sciences:
forbes.com/2009/02/23/evolution-creation-debate-biology-opinions-contributors_darwin.html
Peace,
Ed
Oh my goodness. Of course it’s dangerous to science when people want to include supernatural ideas within the context of science education. Science is limited to nature. Supernatural stuff goes to the religion or philosophy department.“dangerous” ? No. I don’t think so.
Peace,
Ed
I’m not an idiot. I know how far away the stars are and I am fully aware of the speed of light.It is important to remember Gary that when we observe something that is 500 000 light years away, what we are actually observing is light from 500 000 years ago. So when we see that event occurring what we are actually witnessing is history.
Namesake, as you know, I was a delegate to the conference in Rome two weeks ago sponsored by the Pontifical Council for Culture. Among the forty hours of lecture and discussion was one session devoted to the American phenomenon of Young Earth Creationism, a source of constant wonder for Catholics outside this county. I explained its origins and development to some of the priests I met from Spain and Italy and Poland, and how it started among evangelical Protestants in the early 1900s but has begun to infect Catholicism through the vector of converts who formerly were Fundamentalists.The reason some people work so hard at defending evolution is because so many people (pretty much only in the US) are attacking evolution from a fundamentalist Christian point of view. That is a dangerous thing because if successful science will be damaged. Is your faith damaged or threatened by evolution theory?
Do you have evidence to support this claim?The universe was created with the appearance of age.Gary
“tear apart evolution theory” How would religious fundamentalists do that?Oh my goodness. Of course it’s dangerous to science when people want to include supernatural ideas within the context of science education. Science is limited to nature. Supernatural stuff goes to the religion or philosophy department.
It’s very dangerous to try to erase the theory of biological evolution because that would undermine everything we know about biology, as well as a lot of other areas of science.
Including ID in science classrooms would be dumbing down science education. That would be a bad thing to do in this world of ever increasing competition in math and science.
The USA is still the best place on Earth to do science but if religious fundamentalists can tear apart evolution theory the USA will lose that distinction. That’s a dangerous thing.
What then would you like to do about evolution theory?“tear apart evolution theory” How would religious fundamentalists do that?
“erase the theory of biological evolution”? Who wants to erase it? And how would they do that?
Speaking as a Catholic, and based on the Church’s position, there is nothing wrong with comparative biology and genetic research. Evolution, as described here, has nothing to do with math. By making science=evolution, I don’t think you’re considering how false that statement is. When I took chemistry in college - zero involved evolution. My training in electronics included zero about evolution.
However, the big problem is the atheist - evolution connection which is being heavily marketed here, for example: Genesis? Pure fiction! Adam and Eve first parents of the entire human race? Ha! And don’t even get me started with that Eve was formed from Adam’s side nonsense! Sound familiar?
Don’t get me wrong. Like I said, comparative biology and genetics are fine.
Peace,
Ed
Yes I know that you attended the conferences and I am not at all surprised that you had to explain the American phenomenon. It isn’t just YECs though, as I am confident that you understand.Namesake, as you know, I was a delegate to the conference in Rome two weeks ago sponsored by the Pontifical Council for Culture. Among the forty hours of lecture and discussion was one session devoted to the American phenomenon of Young Earth Creationism, a source of constant wonder for Catholics outside this county. I explained its origins and development to some of the priests I met from Spain and Italy and Poland, and how it started among evangelical Protestants in the early 1900s but has begun to infect Catholicism through the vector of converts who formerly were Fundamentalists.
StAnastasia
Read Genesis 1 & 2. Did God create adults or zygotes?Do you have evidence to support this claim?
In the symbolic language of Genesis, God created adult humans.Read Genesis 1 & 2. Did God create adults or zygotes? Gary
Namesake, yes – it’s also IDers and others, not just YECs. The paradox you mention is curious indeed, almost a cultural bifurcation. On the one hand we have a scientifically literate society making phenomenally important contributions to society and to human knowledge. On the other hand we have a stratum of society largely who are ignorant of science, as evidenced by participants in this forum.It’s embarrassing for me to read the posts on this forum that aren’t just ignorant about science but down right hostile. Whether it comes from Catholics or Protestants it just amazes me that Americans can be so strongly against not only biology, but also against so many other scientific disciplines. I mean, this is America. This is where science is done at a level that the rest of the world aspires to and we have a bunch of folks trying to tear it all apart. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Then the third way allows us to have the fullness of science AND the fullness of faith. Do I have that right?How do they coexist in society? I think they do so because we have two cultural streams that agree on the claim that science and religious belief. YECs and Dawkinsian atheists agree that evolution leads to atheism. But there are many of us who do not accept this false dichotomy, people who believe in the unity of truth. The audience hall at the Gregorian University was full of adherents of this third way.
This may help to answer your question – get a Catholic Bible. Read the general introduction. Read the introduction to each book. Check footnotes and cross-references. Use common sense.Where is the indication that the beginning of Genesis is to be taken as anything other than history? If it is, where does Genesis stop being poetry and start being history?
Gary
What would I like to do?What then would you like to do about evolution theory?
That’s certainly my take on it!Then the third way allows us to have the fullness of science AND the fullness of faith. Do I have that right?
So then, you want biologists to present evolution in scientific terms and leave it at that, is that right?What would I like to do?
First, if the facts behind evolutionary theory were simply presented. No problem.
Second, but the data is not the issue. It’s the interpretation of the data that’s the issue.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but the conflict concerns the interface of human knowledge as interpreted by scientists, limited as it is. And those who come here and yell: Hey! We’ve got knowledge. And it says your Bible book is wrong - here, here and here. Got it? That’s what science says. Are you listening!?
Knowledge given to Christians by God through Revelation is real knowledge. But atheists and others come here and say: You’ve got it all wrong, see? Science tells me …
So sure are they in presenting what they consider a closed matter (i.e. evolutionary theory) that they persist. Why? Defending knowledge? No evidence of that. Defending and promoting atheism? Plenty of evidence for that.
Rally for Reason decided to protest outside of the Creation Museum. If you go to their web site, you’ll see most of their supporters are atheists. The ‘modern’ atheist wants to own the words: reality, reason and science.
And an atheist is currently posting here insisting that the human senses and science are the only ways to know about reality. Catholics do not agree.
Peace,
Ed
Since you just returned from what must have been an enlightening experience at the conference what can you tell us about the difference in the way Americans view evolution and the way other people view evolution?That’s certainly my take on it!
I wish it was that simple. Once data is acquired, it is used in some fashion. If evolution theory is useful in biology (and it’s not clear to me that it is), use it. But once the data leaves the lab, so to speak, then it’s taken by some and used to support personal beliefs and goes beyond what science can demonstrate as true. As a matter of fact, while some claim that science is neutral about the supernatural, or incapable of studying it, that certainly doesn’t stop people from coming here and making claims that they say are:So then, you want biologists to present evolution in scientific terms and leave it at that, is that right?
The best way to answer your question about Genesis in particular is to: get the Catechism of the Catholic Church second edition. ISBN: 1-57455-109-4. Go to Index, Original sin, page 828 and read all selections. Read all referenced paragraphs noted in margins of each page. Follow up on foot notes.Where is the indication that the beginning of Genesis is to be taken as anything other than history? If it is, where does Genesis stop being poetry and start being history?
Gary