Confessing Pre-Marital Sex/Birth Control

[BlueEyedLady]

What advice do you want exactly? “Go ahead, keep doing whatever you want, and then right before you get married repent. I mean, you won’t be able to have premarital sex anymore so what does it matter?”

Sorry, you won’t get that from me. Either admit that you live a life of sin (at least according to the cc) and that you really don’t care what they have to say about it, or stop and uphold your commitment to god and your church.

 

[iloveangels]

And please don’t ask for advice if you don’t really want it, WesternBlot. That’s obnoxious.

 

[choose_to_love]

@fgh: could you please post where the Bible says it is to be the entire rule of faith, or where Christ says all you need to know will be contained in the following books.

What entity had the authority to determine which books were to be included in the canon?

I am suggesting that you have an erroneous understanding of the Church’s teaching authority.

OP: surely you can see that the ends do not justify the means (re post #37). HV teaches that responsible parenthood requires a couple to prayerfully determine each month to what God is calling them, their responsibilities to each other and the existing family, and to society. If the couple determines that they are not being called to parenthood at that particular point in time, for serious reasons, they may abstain periodically or completely, while continuing to discern what God’s will is for them.

@kozlosap: IIRC, the papal commission to which you refer was intially constituted to help determine if the pill was in fact contraceptive in its manner of action, not to re-think contraception generally.

 

[WesternBlot]

What advice do you want exactly? “Go ahead, keep doing whatever you want, and then right before you get married repent. I mean, you won’t be able to have premarital sex anymore so what does it matter?”

Sorry, you won’t get that from me. Either admit that you live a life of sin (at least according to the cc) and that you really don’t care what they have to say about it, or stop and uphold your commitment to god and your church.

The advice I wanted was clarification on the confession of these sins, and the receiving of Communion. I got the answers to this so I will be moving forward with prayer and seeking the instruction of my priest, as well as taking some of the reading suggestions that have been made. Putting words in my mouth is useless, so hopefully you understand now that I did get the answers I came here for.

 

[AthenaC]

Hi WesternBlot,

It is clear from many replies that almost no one here has struggled with anything close to your particular issue. The upside is they are giving you great objective, technically correct advice. The downside is (at least from where I’m sitting) there is no understanding and minimal charity.

I want to emphasize that yes, as long as you are having sex before marriage, there is no Eucharist for you. BlueEyedLady said that even after marriage, unless you “would go back and do it differently” you STILL cannot receive the Eucharist. Hers is a good idea, in theory, and I used to agree with it. But once upon a time, as a young unwed mother, I went to confession and confessed my difficulty in being contrite for premarital sex, since it was that premarital sex that brought my beautiful daughter into my life; if I went back and did it differently, I wouldn’t have my daughter. The priest told me to basically pray for perfect contrition, be as contrite as I was able to be, and not worry about the contradiction of “if no sex, then no beautiful baby; I love my baby, therefore I cannot regret sex.” (I know you don’t have kids, but your relationship with your fiancee is being cultivated and maintained (a good thing!) by your continuing to have sex, so I think the same principle applies.)

 

[WesternBlot]

And please don’t ask for advice if you don’t really want it, WesternBlot. That’s obnoxious.

For the last time, I did want advice, I received that advice, and I am taking it to heart and appreciate the (helpful) advice I’ve received.

 

[iloveangels]

For the last time, I did want advice, I received that advice, and I am taking it to heart and appreciate the (helpful) advice I’ve received.

Good luck in turning the thread off, WesternBlot. This is the downside of talking about your private affairs online.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi WesternBlot,

**It is clear from many replies that almost no one here has struggled with anything close to your particular issue. ** The upside is they are giving you great objective, technically correct advice. The downside is (at least from where I’m sitting) there is no understanding and minimal charity.

I want to emphasize that yes, as long as you are having sex before marriage, there is no Eucharist for you. BlueEyedLady said that even after marriage, unless you “would go back and do it differently” you STILL cannot receive the Eucharist. Hers is a good idea, in theory, and I used to agree with it. But once upon a time, as a young unwed mother, I went to confession and confessed my difficulty in being contrite for premarital sex, since it was that premarital sex that brought my beautiful daughter into my life; if I went back and did it differently, I wouldn’t have my daughter. The priest told me to basically pray for perfect contrition, be as contrite as I was able to be, and not worry about the contradiction of “if no sex, then no beautiful baby; I love my baby, therefore I cannot regret sex.” (I know you don’t have kids, but your relationship with your fiancee is being cultivated and maintained (a good thing!) by your continuing to have sex, so I think the same principle applies.)

100% wrong. A lot of us here have shacked up before marriage, and we know the pitfalls very well. We know the regret, the shame, the heartache, and the PERMANENT consequences of our sin. If I could go back and do it differently, I would. I have confessed my sins in depth, cried many tears of regret, for the way I lived for years. I didn’t know any better, had little moral compass, but still. The consequences live on in my marriage. You can’t start out with the same respect when you’ve asked nothing of your spouse. Given everything, asked for nothing.

No one has been uncharitable to the OP. We’ve been diligently reminding him that he can’t eat his cake and have it too. Sometimes you have to continue to emphasize a point to someone who is turning away from the raw truth. We are not uncharitable toward the OP. We care very much about the condition of his soul.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The problem with what AthenaC is saying is that the church teaches that a relationship is stronger when there is no premarital sex. And from their point of view (and my atheistic one) if a relationship is cultivated and sustained by sex then it is not a good, loving, and respectful relationship.

Full disclosure: I live with my fiance, and yes we are sexually active. But I don’t ask Catholics (or any Christians) to justify it. And I certainly don’t convert to religions that see it as a mortal sin and expect to continue living however I want without being told that I’m wrong.

 

[Barbkw]

As far as the premaritial sex. It’s a self control issue. Chastity of mind, heart and soul for yourself and for those you love.

Suppose one day, in your marriage, you’re no longer able to have sex with your wife. What then?

Or your wife is not able to have sex with you.

You’ve never experienced your relationship without the availablity of the sexual act.

Why is that?

 

[agapewolf]

So your asserting that without the rules of the Church you wouldn’t have a well formed conscience? I hope you really don’t believe that. Natural law surely plays into our well formed consciences, as does history. Also remember that when (in the mid 60’s), contraception was studied by a council formed by the Holy Father, the recommendation was that contraception become an accepted practice. Pope Paul VI (gee, I got that one right!), made the decision to keep with the historical practice of a ban on contraception. The people that believed the earth was round should all have been thrown out of the church if we are to follow your commandment that we must “believe” in every single word whether it be social teachings or theological teachings that the Church adheres to. I’m so happy that there are people who do not struggle with certain rules, I’m just not one of them. I wish I could check my brain at the door of my parish church and take my box of crayons and go right in, but I can’t and that’s one reason why I love the Church so much - there’s even room for the likes of me. Please don’t discourage new Catholics or those considering joining the Body of Christ by making them feel unwelcome and not true Catholics if they don’t believe exactly as you think we should all believe. Grad school ethics and theology should be a class everyone has the opportunity to take - it truly helped me to love the Church more than I ever did.

First of all, your comment about “checking brain at the door” is insulting. There is no need for that. I also NEVER discouraged new catholics…I never had a “commandment”, AND the most important thing here: it is impossible for the church to have a “Teaching” on faith and morals about the world being round. That has nothing to do with faith and morals. Get your facts straight, and stop being so sarcastic and vile. It’s not necessary.

Forming a conscience has NOTHING to do with popular opinion. It has everything to do with forming in light of the teaching of the church. Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would prevent Peter from teaching error. I think history proves the fact that the pope stands firm even though the other protestant churches decide to “change” their teaching. Truth cannot change. The church doesn’t go against natural law.

 

[Onegin]

Hi WesternBlot,

It is clear from many replies that almost no one here has struggled with anything close to your particular issue. The upside is they are giving you great objective, technically correct advice. The downside is (at least from where I’m sitting) there is no understanding and minimal charity.

I want to emphasize that yes, as long as you are having sex before marriage, there is no Eucharist for you. BlueEyedLady said that even after marriage, unless you “would go back and do it differently” you STILL cannot receive the Eucharist. Hers is a good idea, in theory, and I used to agree with it. But once upon a time, as a young unwed mother, I went to confession and confessed my difficulty in being contrite for premarital sex, since it was that premarital sex that brought my beautiful daughter into my life; if I went back and did it differently, I wouldn’t have my daughter. The priest told me to basically pray for perfect contrition, be as contrite as I was able to be, and not worry about the contradiction of “if no sex, then no beautiful baby; I love my baby, therefore I cannot regret sex.” (I know you don’t have kids, but your relationship with your fiancee is being cultivated and maintained (a good thing!) by your continuing to have sex, so I think the same principle applies.)

I think this is an excellent post and helpful too. The important thing is to go to confession - don’t stay away just because you think you haven’t achieved perfect contrition. The conflicted feeling you have is enough to indicate that, at least on some level, you have an understanding of the sin and a need for the sacrament.

To everyone else here - ease up on WesternBlot about this issue. Like Athena noted, I get the feeling that a lot of people here have never struggled with these issues (which is a genuinely good thing!) but at the same time, it can put one in a position to be judgmental and rude. We all struggle with different sins and every single one of us makes a choice to break Church teaching knowingly each time we violate the Ten Commandments, or choose to engage in any sin small or large. Just because Western Blot struggles with the Contraception issue, and you don’t, doesn’t mean that it is an opportunity to throw the CCC book at him without any charity.

We are here to clarify Church teaching but to let God be the judge. We are all sinners and even if we go to Confession 10 times a week or just one time per year, we’re all in the same boat together.

 

[AthenaC]

100% wrong. A lot of us here have shacked up before marriage, and we know the pitfalls very well. We know the regret, the shame, the heartache, and the PERMANENT consequences of our sin. If I could go back and do it differently, I would. I have confessed my sins in depth, cried many tears of regret, for the way I lived for years. I didn’t know any better, had little moral compass, but still. The consequences live on in my marriage. You can’t start out with the same respect when you’ve asked nothing of your spouse. Given everything, asked for nothing.

No one has been uncharitable to the OP. We’ve been diligently reminding him that he can’t eat his cake and have it too. Sometimes you have to continue to emphasize a point to someone who is turning away from the raw truth. We are not uncharitable toward the OP. We care very much about the condition of his soul.

I am very sorry that you have experienced pain from this, and that, as you say, “the consequences live on” in your marriage. I have experienced no consequences in that regard. My husband and I both had plenty of sex with other people before we met, but we both agree that nothing was “lost”. We are monogamous, love each other very much, and have a beautiful relationship. “Given everything, asked for nothing” makes absolutely no sense from where I’m sitting.

“100% wrong.”

No, I think I’m right. I don’t see anyone else here who has struggled with simultaneously: 1) knowing that the Church teaches sex outside of marriage is wrong; 2) completely failing to see why its wrong since one has experienced nothing but good from having sex outside of marriage; and 3) consequently, failing to live up to the teaching. Put all that together, and it makes perfect sense to ask “Well, I’m having a REALLY hard time being sorry, how the heck do I confess this?” I’ve been there, and my practical advice above reflected that.

 

[AthenaC]

The problem with what AthenaC is saying is that the church teaches that a relationship is stronger when there is no premarital sex. And from their point of view (and my atheistic one) if a relationship is cultivated and sustained by sex then it is not a good, loving, and respectful relationship.

I wasn’t clear. Sex is one piece of cultivating and sustaining a relationship, and its an important one. That’s why impotent people are not allowed to get married. Since sex within marriage is seen as good, holy, sacred, and all that jazz, it should surprise no one that every once in a while (at least!) two people are headed toward marriage, have a great relationship (that includes sex) and have a REALLY hard time wrapping their head around why they shouldn’t have sex.

 

[Barbkw]

I wasn’t clear. Sex is one piece of cultivating and sustaining a relationship, and its an important one. That’s why impotent people are not allowed to get married. Since sex within marriage is seen as good, holy, sacred, and all that jazz, it should surprise no one that every once in a while (at least!) two people are headed toward marriage, have a great relationship (that includes sex) and have a REALLY hard time wrapping their head around why they shouldn’t have sex.

Unfortuneately, the passion of sex wears off. Life seeps in. Other responsibilities seep in.
Reality hits like a ton of bricks.

He’s unwilling to experience his relationship now, without sex.

Some people look elsewhere for sex, when sex gets “boring”. Many divorce over this issue because they never experienced relationship without sex.

 

[tafan]

It is most absolutely NOT wrong. No one should attempt to receive a sacrament when not in the state of grace (Except of course, the sacraments intended to remove such a state).

Your quote does not conflict with this.

First of all, I completely agree that one should not receive the sacrament of marriage when not in a state of grace. My point I was trying to make was that your post and one other quoted “implied” (at least in my opinion) that such a marriage would be invalid/ not sacramental.

If one gets married while not in the state of grace, the marriage is valid, it is sacramental, and one starts receiving the graces of the sacrament when one is reconciled to God. I am not saying, nor did I say that one should do so.

The other post I was referring to, but did not quote was:

domandcarols:

You can’t receive the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony until you’re in a state of grace

Again, you should not do so; but you most certainly can.

 

[Befink]

Hi OP,

Again I feel for you with the heat you’re getting. This thread is an easy example of the liberal vs. conservative, love vs. truth divide in our religion (real irony is we’re all going to heaven). On CAF you will typically get a vast knowledge of scripture, CCC etc. along with a lot of grief if you don’t follow them. Just saying know what to expect so you’re not too frustrated when you get your responses. Otherwise you and your responders end up with a stack of venial sins to resolve

Congrats on your wedding and I’m glad you’ve joined our church!

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

There are posts on this thread that could have been penned by that sanctimonious Church Lady from Saturday Night Live herself.

Let me try and explain, we rent a townhouse together, with a lease. Breaking a lease contract, finding new housing, etc. is financially impossible for us. I wasn’t expecting to be told anything about this, as I did not bring it up, I was just responding to their advice.

OP, we’re strangers on the Internet. You are under absolutely no obligation to explain anything about your life circumstances to us.

I…I got an answer (seek my priest, do not receive Communion or Confess yet).

Unless you’re a glutton for Catholic punishment, my best, albeit unsolicited, advice is for you to contact a Moderator and have this thread closed.

Luna

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hi OP,

Again I feel for you with the heat you’re getting. This thread is an easy example of the liberal vs. conservative, love vs. truth divide in our religion (real irony is we’re all going to heaven). On CAF you will typically get a vast knowledge of scripture, CCC etc. along with a lot of grief if you don’t follow them. Just saying know what to expect so you’re not too frustrated when you get your responses. Otherwise you and your responders end up with a stack of venial sins to resolve

Congrats on your wedding and I’m glad you’ve joined our church!

Your RCIA classes are failing you. We Catholics do not believe that everyone has a lock on getting to heaven. Once saved, always saved is not in any way a Catholic belief.

 

[tafan]

I understand, and do try to be humble, I strive for that, but at the same time I crave reasons for beliefs (this is one thing that actually pulled me toward the CC). Again, I will be praying and speaking with my priest soon on this matter, something I have not done yet, so I am trying.

Craving reasons for beliefs is a good thing. That is a start. In the meantime, just follow the beliefs. I know, may be easier said than done, we are all sinners. But at least intend to follow the teachings, and when you fail, then you can make a valid confession and try again.

Where I question your humility is when you say, since you don’t agree with the church, you have no intent on changing. That is my point.

BTW, Do not be surprised if your priest requires you to move apart from your fiance before the marriage. This is often the case.