'Confession' of child abuse no longer secret?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Rosalinda
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Ortho:
I am somewhat surprised that stopping the rape of a 7-year-old girl would deny a sacrament to millions of Americans. I suspect they would stand up and cheer.
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You do not seem to have a good understanding of the Catholic faith. For nearly 2000 years the church has be saying that you can, and are even required to, confess your most horrible sins and offensives without fear of ANY type of earthly punishment or retribution because the priest is only filling in for God and therefore he is not part of the equation.

The actions you are suggesting would accomplish only one thing – it would completely invalidate a sacrament that has existed since God founded the church because those that were committing such crimes would just stop confessing them if they knew that that information could be used against them. Sort of like taking the 5th.
 
Sir Knight:
You do not seem to have a good understanding of the Catholic faith. For nearly 2000 years the church has be saying that you can, and are even required to, confess your most horrible sins and offensives without fear of ANY type of earthly punishment or retribution because the priest is only filling in for God and therefore he is not part of the equation.

The actions you are suggesting would accomplish only one thing – it would completely invalidate a sacrament that has existed since God founded the church because those that were committing such crimes would just stop confessing them if they knew that that information could be used against them. Sort of like taking the 5th.
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So, if a priest went to the local cops and told them a guy had been raping a 7-year-old girl, then the sacrament would be completely invalid?

Has confidentiality ever been broken before. If so, is the sacrament already invalid?

I still want to know how such action would stop the average Catholic from confession.
 
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Ortho:
I still want to know how such action would stop the average Catholic from confession.
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The average Catholic DOESN"T go to confession.
 
Originally posted by Ortho
So, if a priest went to the local cops and told them a guy had been raping a 7-year-old girl, then the sacrament would be completely invalid?

Has confidentiality ever been broken before. If so, is the sacrament already invalid?

I still want to know how such action would stop the average Catholic from confession.
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Maybe you have forgotten the original post and point of discussion here. To refresh you
The current legislation under consideration would amend state law and require religious figures to provide unqualified reporting of any abuse divulged to them, under any circumstances.
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Removing the exemption for confidentiality between the penitent and the priest would mean the average Catholic would have as much guarantee of privacy as appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show. The information obtained during the sacrament of confession belongs to God alone: it is His property. To reiterate the point, already made numerous times, the priest would no longer be acting as an instrument of God but rather an agent of the state. The sacrament would become about as useless as substituting crackers and juice for bread and wine when attempting to confect the Eucharist in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy of the most Sacred Mystery. In order for confession to be valid you need a penitent and a priest: not a penitent and a stooge.
 
Some liberal Catholics are still hellbent on destroying the Church Christ founded.

Link
 
The topic of this thread is the pending bill in New Hampshire and its effect on the sacrament, not the sacrament itself. Please get back on topic. If anyone wishes to discuss the sacrament, please start a thread in the Liturgy & Sacraments forum. Thanks.

Walt
 
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Rosalinda:
Originally posted by Ortho

Maybe you have forgotten the original post and point of discussion here. To refresh you

Removing the exemption for confidentiality between the penitent and the priest would mean the average Catholic would have as much guarantee of privacy as appearing on the Oprah Winfrey show. The information obtained during the sacrament of confession belongs to God alone: it is His property. To reiterate the point, already made numerous times, the priest would no longer be acting as an instrument of God but rather an agent of the state. The sacrament would become about as useless as substituting crackers and juice for bread and wine when attempting to confect the Eucharist in the celebration of the Divine Liturgy of the most Sacred Mystery. In order for confession to be valid you need a penitent and a priest: not a penitent and a stooge.
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Haven’t forgotten the pending legislation at all. I posed a simplified case of the rape of a 7-year-old. If the priest just walked up to the police station absent any law, would that cause the subset of Catholics who use confession to quit? If so, why?

I can understand that it might deter child molesters who plan to keep molesting children, but what about all the rest?
 
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bones_IV:
Some liberal Catholics are still hellbent on destroying the Church Christ founded.

Link
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From the article:
"…said Catholic League president Bill Donohue. “The Sacrament of Reconciliation is conditioned on confidentiality, much like lawyer-client, doctor-patient, reporter-source relationships.”

Doctors are required to report evidence of child abuse. Lawyers are required to report clients who say they intend to commit child abuse.

I agree with Donohue. The confession situation is just like that of doctors and lawyers.
 
Ortho, so glad you agree with Donohue who also said and I quote:
“Neither Rep. Gile, nor anyone else, has one scintilla of evidence suggesting that child abuse would decrease if what is heard in the confessional were made public,” he stated, adding that the bill was flawed in three ways.

“It is an unconstitutional encroachment by the state on religion; it is based on the superstition that child molesters are going free because priests are shielding them from the authorities, and; it is premised on the fatuous notion that priests would violate the seal of the confessional before ever going to prison,” he said.
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Ortho, Now you’re forgetting your own hypothesis as originally stated.
So, let’s take a hypothetical.

A man confesses to a priest that he has been raping his 7-year-old daughter. Every week the man confesses the same thing. The situation is such that the priest cannot help the girl without telling authorities what he learned in confession. What is the responsible thing to do
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Today you add yet another condition:
If the priest just walked up to the police station absent any law, would that cause the subset of Catholics who use confession to quit?
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The entire context of this debate is precisely because there is a proposal to change the law; now you claim otherwise.
 
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Rosalinda:
Ortho, so glad you agree with Donohue who also said and I quote:
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I quoted what I agreed with. I wonder who he thinks will win the SuperBowl? Think I agree?
 
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Rosalinda:
Ortho, Now you’re forgetting your own hypothesis as originally stated.

Today you add yet another condition:

The entire context of this debate is precisely because there is a proposal to change the law; now you claim otherwise.
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I realize the context. In looking at that context it is reasonable to explore a single instance of a priest acting on his own responsibility.

In the original case mentioned nothing about a law, and I asked what the responsible thing would be for the priest to do. How is that case contradicted by asking about the consequences of reporting the rape of a 7-year-old to police? That’s an example of a responsible response.
 
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Ortho:
Lawyers are required to report clients who say they intend to commit child abuse.
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A person in confession is confessing PAST offenses – not future ones. A criminal who confides in an attorney the PAST crimes that he has committed, is protected by lawyer-client confidentiality to prevent someone from incriminating themselves in violation of the 5th amendment of the Bill of Rights.

A similar relationship exists between a priest hearing confession and the penitent confessing but even to a higher degree.
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Ortho:
I agree with Donohue. The confession situation is just like that of doctors and lawyers.
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Neither you, nor Donohue or anyone else, for that matter, is in a position to tell the Catholic church, or any church, for that matter, how they are to govern their RELIGIOUS affairs because they are protected from government interferance by the 1st amendment of the Bill of Rights.
 
Please, no more responses to Ortho’s posts. I will try to clean the thread up later in the day. Thank you for your cooperation.

Walt
 
and in all of this “hypo” chit chat, another child, has fallen “prey” and another child’s life, is destroyed…what of the words of christ, that he who should ever harm the child, shall have a (yokee) thing, hung around his/her neck?

My jaysus, i mean, have you people NO sense? in sense of understanding that a child, in all worldy goodness, has only one perception of life, to be Free, to enjoy, to express, the list is exhaustive…but, the act of Abuse is (imposed)…

freewebs.com/robbiedempsey61/ryanwash.htm
 
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