Confession Refused

[paperwight66]

That may be the case. The priest asked, so the OP tried to answer truthfully. But the one main thing that I remember in planning to make my first reconciliation is that NO ONE should be discussing what may/may not/did happen inside the confessional. Yes, the priest’s question was very inappropriate. But for the parent to continue the conversation by telling the priest what he expected would be said in confession was inappropriate as well.

If the priest had asked the OP about his wife’s sins, would the OP have answered in the same manner? I tend to think not.

Well, that’s true, but to be fair, and assuming we are talking about a young child here, and not a teenager, isn’t sin at that age mostly a question of naughtiness, about which any parent would talk to a friend or other parent without feeling any need to keep it ‘between the child and God’? A parent wouldn’t think whatever a normal little child did wrong was of the same seriousness as murder, adultery and the rest, surely?

I’m trying to say that childish naughtiness wouldn’t be seen in the same way as adult sins, which one would obviously be discreet over. Alarm bells wouldn’t ring when being asked about a child’s little sins as it would merge in with talk about not eating their greens, or getting sums wrong i.e. they would be thought of as just part of what little children did and public knowledge.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Not sure how you come to a public forum talking publicly and then have a problem being direct? I suppose if that is indeed the case, then being direct may well have been the problem in Church also.

Hey I don’t know, I suppose the moral of the story is you have to play an active role in your own life? But I find it pretty hard to believe the Priest, Church and CAF could all be wrong here.

So I guess this one remains in the “mystery” column?

 

[SummerSmiles]

Well, that’s true, but to be fair, and assuming we are talking about a young child here, and not a teenager, isn’t sin at that age mostly a question of naughtiness, about which any parent would talk to a friend or other parent without feeling any need to keep it ‘between the child and God’? A parent wouldn’t think whatever a normal little child did wrong was of the same seriousness as murder, adultery and the rest, surely?

I’m trying to say that childish naughtiness wouldn’t be seen in the same way as adult sins, which one would obviously be discreet over. Alarm bells wouldn’t ring when being asked about a child’s little sins as it would merge in with talk about not eating their greens, or getting sums wrong i.e. they would be thought of as just part of what little children did and public knowledge.

Yes, it is likely a case of “childhood naughtiness.” But this isn’t a parent talking to other parents. The OP was discussing this in terms of a confession, this isn’t something that was brought up along the course of a conversation about the things that kids do. The son asked to go to confession, which means that he’s old enough to understand the concept of sin, even if at this age it is only childhood naughtiness. The priest should not have asked, the parent should not have answered. Even an honest “I don’t know” would have been more appropriate than discussing what one’s child might have been expecting to say during the child’s confession.

 

[LilyM]

Well, that’s true, but to be fair, and assuming we are talking about a young child here, and not a teenager, isn’t sin at that age mostly a question of naughtiness, about which any parent would talk to a friend or other parent without feeling any need to keep it ‘between the child and God’? A parent wouldn’t think whatever a normal little child did wrong was of the same seriousness as murder, adultery and the rest, surely?

I’m trying to say that childish naughtiness wouldn’t be seen in the same way as adult sins, which one would obviously be discreet over. Alarm bells wouldn’t ring when being asked about a child’s little sins as it would merge in with talk about not eating their greens, or getting sums wrong i.e. they would be thought of as just part of what little children did and public knowledge.

So if your spouse is only guilty of small venial sins you feel that would make you justified in blabbing them to the priest if he asked? It must then make it equally OK for the priest to blab those same venial sins - of the child or the spouse - to the whole congregation, naming your spouse or child as the sinner when doing so.

The seal and privacy the sacrament of confession (including the requirement of spouse or parent to avoid ‘confessing’ another’s sins) is absolute, it has nothing to do with the seriousness or otherwise of the sins involved.

 

[jilly4ski]

I guess I see it as the OP should have never been placed in the position in the first place, because the priest should have known better. (He should be well versed in the confessional seal requirements). Where a normal person may get confused, about what should be shared and what shouldn’t, especially when asked by a priest. (They may think the things they are telling the priest are under the seal, or just relating general things and not specifics to a priest is ok, is not gossip and is for the priests information in deciding whether to give confession).

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I guess I see it as the OP should have never been placed in the position in the first place, because the priest should have known better. (He should be well versed in the confessional seal requirements). Where a normal person may get confused, about what should be shared and what shouldn’t, especially when asked by a priest. (They may think the things they are telling the priest are under the seal, or just relating general things and not specifics to a priest is ok, is not gossip and is for the priests information in deciding whether to give confession).

But you see, we are only going by what the OP told us. We have no idea what the priest really said/did or didn’t say or do.

 

[damooster]

Here are a few random observations:

1. I feel so bad for the kid right now. If the child in question actually tried to be responsible by asking to go to Confession on his own after Mass, I can’t imagine how he is feeling right now. To have a priest deny the son the Sacrament of Reconciliation like this is damaging! If I were the kid, I would never ask to go to Confession again. I think this should be discussed with the priest further, and if a better answer is not given, I would take it to the Bishop. It’s one thing for the priest to say he has other commitments or something like that, but to subject the boy to this is gut-wrenching.
2. Hindsight is 20/20. No one knows how they would have reacted in this type of situation, so to go after the OP for not standing up to the priest is unfair. In combat, I’ve seen the biggest, toughest, meanest soldiers curl up in the fetal position when first shot at. People react differently to stressful situations.
3. I had another point but I forgot it!

 

[Pug]

We had an weird experience today.

We took our son to confession and the priest asked what sins did he have?

We told the priest that our son has a few things to confess but disobedience was one of the sins. The priest then said that it was not a sin for it were not morally wrong.

He then said for us to ask another priest.

Is he right?

The most likely explanation seems to me that the priest was trying to see if the child had venial sins or mortal sins, so that he could decide if he had to stick around after mass to hear the confession, or if he could ask the parents to find another priest. Perhaps the priest had somewhere pressing to be.

I sympathize with the parent who was asked a question by an authority figure about his/her child. People are obedient and accustomed to responding to people in place of the child. For example, when a doctor asks a child about symptoms, usually it is the parent who answers. I bet this priest might tend to ask adult penitents if the matter is important enough to delay his schedule when they approach him after mass. He probably thought he was having that same conversation, “Is it super important?”, but with the adult, since the child would not have understood the conversation. Probably the parent did not understand why the priest was asking and was confused. Also, the priest probably didn’t realize that his question had been too probing, perhaps because he was in a rush and being inattentive. It could be a number of nuanced things.

It is possible that all the priest meant was that disobedience was venial, and hence the child didn’t need confession, especially since the child had just been to mass and communion (venial sins can be forgiven at mass, not just in confession).

 

[HAnne]

To the OP:

I’m so sorry your thread went awry. As a fellow parent of a child about to make his First Reconciliation I can only imagine what you went through.

Please know that there are some people here on CAF who do not understand that we are to reach out IN LOVE as Christ did. It is not OUR place to condemn you, the priest, or your son. I cannot apologize for them but I can sympathize and understand as I have also occasionally been on the “bad end” of these threads.

I will be praying for you and your family to find a better situation and for your son to still see the value in a Sacrament that he has seen desecrated.

Again, my sincerest apologies about what happened. I know it was not directly my fault but I feel terrible about what happened to you.

(The above is a slightly revised version of a PM I sent the OP. He asked me to post it here for all of you. He is planning on leaving CAF due to being attacked and feeling unwelcome in what was a spiritual crisis for his family. I hope that we can all step ABOVE ourselves and pray for this family and their needs.)

 

[PatriceA]

I see a problem all the way around. I do not think we are getting the entire story. The OP has recounted this event in a way that he wishes to highlight what the priest has done, but I think there is just more to it. I don’t see a priest asking parents what the kid’s sins are. I’m sorry, I just don’t. If the son is too young to have made his first confession, then the priest should have explained the situation, but if the boy had really wanted a confession, he might do it anyway.

Can you imagine any priest you know asking that question? I absolutely cannot!

This has been my thought this whole thread. Something is missing.

 

[Tigg]

Well, that’s true, but to be fair, and assuming we are talking about a young child here, and not a teenager, isn’t sin at that age mostly a question of naughtiness, about which any parent would talk to a friend or other parent without feeling any need to keep it ‘between the child and God’? A parent wouldn’t think whatever a normal little child did wrong was of the same seriousness as murder, adultery and the rest, surely?

I’m trying to say that childish naughtiness wouldn’t be seen in the same way as adult sins, which one would obviously be discreet over. Alarm bells wouldn’t ring when being asked about a child’s little sins as it would merge in with talk about not eating their greens, or getting sums wrong i.e. they would be thought of as just part of what little children did and public knowledge.

This is no one’s call but the penitent’s, and I think we are missing a very vital point. We are speaking about a Sacrament here with the accompanying santicfying and sacramental grace and the spiritual growth of a soul. This child **asked **his parents if he could go to Confession. That would say to me that he felt his “naughtiness” (your definition) needed to be forgiven. Who are we (or the parents or the priest, for that matter,) to assume that what he considers sin to be inconsequential? Sounds to me like this child has a tender conscience and GOOD for him that God’s grace prompted him to want to confess! Let’s hope that this sad scenario which was very wrong on several counts, will not dissuade him from receiving the grace of the sacrament in the future.

 

[Monty61]

The OP said he took his son TO confession, not that he was IN confession with him. The Priest could have simply asked the dad to let the boy talk to him alone heard his confession and br done with it.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I totally agree. The only way I can imagine it happening would be the priest saying, almost jokingly, as a little lad looked up at him with big innocent eyes,‘What sins could he have committed?’ in the sense of ‘Oh, just look at him, he looks angelic’.

The way the OP told the story makes it sound something else entirely. (Also, I’m not convinced that he is a scriptwriter. There’s something very odd about his use of English, - ‘I were taught’ ‘I were asked’ - and doubting that part of the tale makes me doubt the whole story, to be honest).

Perhaps. I wondered as well.

I’ve never heard of a situation like that and can’t imagine a priest making the Sacrament of Confession into a ‘family affair.’

Just a very odd situation all round.

 

[Shirtless]

This is no one’s call but the penitent’s, and I think we are missing a very vital point. We are speaking about a Sacrament here with the accompanying santicfying and sacramental grace and the spiritual growth of a soul. This child **asked **his parents if he could go to Confession. That would say to me that he felt his “naughtiness” (your definition) needed to be forgiven. Who are we (or the parents or the priest, for that matter,) to assume that what he considers sin to be inconsequential? Sounds to me like this child has a tender conscience and GOOD for him that God’s grace prompted him to want to confess! Let’s hope that this sad scenario which was very wrong on several counts, will not dissuade him from receiving the grace of the sacrament in the future.

If it were my child, and he asked to go to confession, I would sit him down and talk it through, to see what he thought he had done. I am sure we could work it out, without having to subject him to crawling into a dark closet with a virtual stranger.

 

[kenofken]

This has been my thought this whole thread. Something is missing.

Maybe this priest is a confessor of some seniority or fame within his diocese. Maybe he doesn’t handle anything smaller than adultery

 

[Tigg]

If it were my child, and he asked to go to confession, I would sit him down and talk it through, to see what he thought he had done. I am sure we could work it out, without having to subject him to crawling into a dark closet with a virtual stranger.

And you, though you identify yourself as Catholic, would usurp that which Christ himself established with His divine authority; Who alone chose this means to allow grace to flow to humankind for their salvation. Sad!

 

[kitkatty]

Identifies himself as Catholic but takes a sola scriptura approach to the sacrament of confession? Maybe not a Catholic at all, anyone think?

 

[jilly4ski]

Identifies himself as Catholic but takes a sola scriptura approach to the sacrament of confession? Maybe not a Catholic at all, anyone think?

and resurrecting old dead threads…