Confession tracker booklet?

[Usige]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the priest “present” candidates to the bishop for confirmation, which essentially states that the priest says these candidates are in fact ready and prepared for confirmation? How can said priest be confident if candidate hasn’t been to confession? Forget about monthly confession here. The Church requires yearly confession, right? Most confirmation programs, at least out here, are less than one year. So how could priest be confident candidates are ready without some sort of mandatory confession? I know that a teacher or DRE cannot require a kid to go to confession, but can a priest? Is this similair to the canon law that says a priest is essentially required to deny communion to a known, unrepentant sinner (like Bishop Bruskewitz says he’ll deny Kerry communion?)

Canon 989 states “After having reached the age of discretion, each member of the faithful is obliged to confess faithfully his or her grave sins at least once a year.” So the requirement is to confess once a year if one has committed a grave sin. If, by the grace of God, someone has not committed a grave sin then they are not obliged to receive the sacrament of penance. Canon law also says that the priest is not allowed to use things heard in confession for detrimental judgement of the penitent. I wonder if the converse is also true (just thinking out loud), but that would seem to also mean that a priest cannot withhold a sacrament simply because he has not absolved someone recently without specific knowledge of sin committed. The case of someone like Kerry who very publicly flouts Church teaching is very different than a priest suspecting a child may not have confessed. Short of catching them in the act of committing a sin right before confirmation, I would think the priest is obliged to not pass judgement to the detriment of the confirmand.

When a candidate is presented it is to say they have been instructed and found to understand the nature of the sacrament. It does not mean that each and everyone is found to be free of sin. We have numerous threads here about “I committed a mortal sin before confirmation, was it valid?”. It would be sacrilege to be confirmed with a mortal sin, but it does not invalidate the sacrament. One situation that would invalidate a sacrament is forced confession where the kid is not repentant and intends to amend their life.

I get the idea behind it, but it is really a problem of the parents. In essence it is saying we will punish the child by withholding the sacrament because of their parents laxity. The parish would do more good by finding a way to pick the kids up for Mass and Confession than they do by turning the sacraments into a task to be checked off. It simply further reinforces an idea that its something you do to get what you want, not something done out of love of God.

 

[Usige]

A fixed grille doesn’t guarantee anonymity and it wasn’t designed to. Anonymity is often a side-effect, but not a requirement.

So clear that it completely fails to use any form of the word anonymous?

A fixed grill prevents physical contact, not the transmission of light, sound, nor other identifying characteristic.

Yes the grill does not guarantee anonymity, but it’s purpose is to safeguard a penitent’s right to anonymity.

This is the answer to a question about confession and anonymity from one of the lawyers at the Saint Joseph Foundation.

Answer by Saint Joseph Foundation on 08-08-2001:
Canon 964 states that there are always to be confessionals with a fixed grate between the penitent and the confessor in an open place so that the faithful who wish to can use them freely.

The purpose of the screen or grill or grate is to afford the penitent anonymity and eliminate suspicion of impropriety in the penitent and confessor relationship.

For the confessor to peer through the grill/grate/screen intent on identifying the penitent infringes on this right of anonymity for the penitent.

If the confessional where the penitent is situated is unlit it is likely that the confessor cannot see into the space. If his peering and looming face is a distraction or disconcerting to you I suggest you ask him to assume the traditional posture with his face turned away from the grill during your confession. Hopefully the bishop’s intervention will not be needed in this matter.

Canon Law Made Easy also has an article saying that the purpose of the fixed grill is to protect the penitent’s right to anonymity. I also just looked through my commentary on the code of canon law on canon 964. It too says the provision for a fixed grill it for anonymity. Here is the specific text from my comentary.

The purpose of this grill is to safeguard the necessary discretion and to guarantee the right of all the faithful to confess their sins, without necessarily having to reveal their personal identity.

The commentary quoted above was written by Dr Toms Rincon, professor of administrative canon law at the University of Navarra, School of Canon Law.

Not sure how one can say that the grill is simply there for propriety and anonymity is an unintended side effect given that every commentary I’ve read says it’s specific purpose is to provide for the right of anonymity.

 

[Usige]

johnnyc175 brings up an excellent point. I will start tracking my confession attendance so I can make sure that I am attending confession monthly. With taking care of my husband and working 2 jobs, time often flies right past me and before I know it, it’s been 4 months since my last confession. Not good. I need the mercy and the graces that this sacrament can give!

Personal tracking of last confession isn’t a problem. I have an app on my phone that I use to track when I last confessed and will alert me if it’s been more than 4 weeks. It’s just a general timer app, not something specific to confession. What is problematic is having to have a record of each time you confessed in order to receive a sacrament.

 

[ameliepoir]

Personal tracking of last confession isn’t a problem. I have an app on my phone that I use to track when I last confessed and will alert me if it’s been more than 4 weeks. It’s just a general timer app, not something specific to confession. What is problematic is having to have a record of each time you confessed in order to receive a sacrament.

Can I ask the name of the app?

 

[CB_Catholic]

I have never seen nor experienced a “fixed grille” that did not also have a fabric component or a weave of dense metal - thus obscuring the person’s features or making them otherwise physically unrecognizabld. A grille through which a person could easily be recognized by their facial characteristics defeats the whole point of a grille. If the priest recognizes someone by voice, so be it. That it doesn’t prevent the transmission of sound is self-evident from the nature of the Sacrament, not sure why you’d mention that.

I just so happened to go to Confession Monday at an Assumption Mass in a confessional with a fixed grill in which I could clearly make out the clergy I was confessing to, and it happened to be one of the Bishops there.

 

[pianistclare]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the priest “present” candidates to the bishop for confirmation, which essentially states that the priest says these candidates are in fact ready and prepared for confirmation?

**Prepared means catechized, and formed to the best of our ability. We also interview the kids to make sure they are ready and willing. If they don’t WANT to be Confirmed we also don’t force that. **How can said priest be confident if candidate hasn’t been to confession?

**He doesn’t have to be. No one can peer into the soul of someone and say " you’ve mortal sins there, better go to confession". Venial sins are remitted various ways.
**Forget about monthly confession here. The Church requires yearly confession, right? Most confirmation programs, at least out here, are less than one year.

** 2 years. ** So how could priest be confident candidates are ready without some sort of mandatory confession?

**Here’s the thing: You can confess in any parish. It doesn’t necessarily have to be your home parish. so there is NO WAY anyone can know if anyone else has gone. **I know that a teacher or DRE cannot require a kid to go to confession, but can a priest? Is this similair to the canon law that says a priest is essentially required to deny communion to a known, unrepentant sinner (like Bishop Bruskewitz says he’ll deny Kerry communion?)

My daughter was confirmed last year, and several class periods were devoted strictly for confession. I don’t know if confession was required or what would have happened had my child decided not to go to confession, I actually never thought to ask.

I did attend a Mass a few years ago where the priest was talking about his new 2-year confirmation class. He stated that he had recently presented 100 candidates to the bishop yet priest only actually saw about 20 kids attend weekly Mass. I wish I could find this priest and ask him about this (I saw priest while on vacation years ago). I’m curious what he’s done to help assure that the candidates are indeed ready for the sacrament.

I also would love to hear from the Spanish church that you mentioned Pisnistclair, too see how their process has worked out.

**It doesn’t “work” frankly. People submit to the program because they want to go to a place where the priest is fluent in Spanish. They don’t like it, but feel trapped, as the parents do not speak English. Afterward, they may go to church elsewhere, but likely not. I know they almost never return there for Confirmation. They come to our parish. **

I certainly see the point of not “forcing” kids to go to confession, though I do admit to taking my kids every month. I don’t strong arm them; I just announce its time for confession. I suppose the sacrament isn’t valid (right word?) if penitent isn’t truly sorry and is going only out of obligation, but would grace still be inferred, perhaps enough to persuade kid to go back on his own?

**There’s a big difference in having a student comprehend that it’s for his relationship with Christ, and having them think that the Church leadership are bullying them into submission. **

 

[Usige]

Can I ask the name of the app?

I use an Android app called ‘Time Since Widget Lite’ and set a monthly reminder. Each time I go to confession I simply tap and update with the current date. If I need to go earlier I have it right on my phone and don’t have to struggle to remember how long ago my last confession was.

I use it for my wedding anniversary too so I don’t look like a dork trying to calculate how long ago we got married. I’m already a dork and don’t need to reinforce it.

 

[1ke]

That’s what I was wondering. If a confession tracker is canonically wrong, then why is it seemingly so commonplace in Poland?

Finding a random document on the internet in Polish does not mean it is “commonplace” in Poland.

 

[Irishmom2]

That’s what I was wondering. If a confession tracker is canonically wrong, then why is it seemingly so commonplace in Poland?

What makes it wrong is who is doing the tracking. You keeping track of your own confessions, fine. Some people do that, **on a calendar. ** what is wrong is for someone else to keep track of when you go.

 

[e_c]

How is the book signed? It could be passed under the grille or through it, depending on its design. There is no seal issue with that… Father makes his initials, passes it back, that’s it. It would depend also on the design of the book - can you see the last times one has been (which could tip off who it is possibly), can you see their name written, etc.

We make children apologize to other children, to parents, to teachers… why not make children apologize to God as well? The natural and supernatural are reflections of each other. Of course, there is a right way to go about it, and a thousand wrong ways. But it can be done.

 

[1ke]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the priest “present” candidates to the bishop for confirmation, which essentially states that the priest says these candidates are in fact ready and prepared for confirmation?

You misunderstand what it means to be presented by the priest if you believe it means how many times they’ve been to confession or gotten a slip of paper signed.

The canon states they must be suitably instructed.

How can said priest be confident if candidate hasn’t been to confession?

This isn’t a requirement.

Forget about monthly confession here. The Church requires yearly confession, right?

Of grave sin.

Most confirmation programs, at least out here, are less than one year. So how could priest be confident candidates are ready without some sort of mandatory confession?

There’s no such thing as mandatory confession.

The requirement for the sacrament is NOT that high of a bar-- of the age of reason, able to renew baptismal promises, suitably instructed, properly disposed.

I know that a teacher or DRE cannot require a kid to go to confession, but can a priest?

No.

Is this similair to the canon law that says a priest is essentially required to deny communion to a known, unrepentant sinner (like Bishop Bruskewitz says he’ll deny Kerry communion?)

No.

My daughter was confirmed last year, and several class periods were devoted strictly for confession. I don’t know if confession was required or what would have happened had my child decided not to go to confession, I actually never thought to ask.

Making confession available is not the same thing as requiring it or requiring a signed piece of paper.

I did attend a Mass a few years ago where the priest was talking about his new 2-year confirmation class. He stated that he had recently presented 100 candidates to the bishop yet priest only actually saw about 20 kids attend weekly Mass. I wish I could find this priest and ask him about this (I saw priest while on vacation years ago). I’m curious what he’s done to help assure that the candidates are indeed ready for the sacrament.

They aren’t getting a PhD. They are asking for and receiving grace. If they approach and ask for confirmation, it is their right to receive it. The canons don’t require confession before confirmation-- nor do they require it for marriage, in the marriage canons spouses are “urged” to receive confession. Nowhere are they “required” to receive confession.

It is ALWAYS the penitent’s choice when, where, and whether to go to confession.

I certainly see the point of not “forcing” kids to go to confession, though I do admit to taking my kids every month. I don’t strong arm them; I just announce its time for confession. I suppose the sacrament isn’t valid (right word?) if penitent isn’t truly sorry and is going only out of obligation, but would grace still be inferred, perhaps enough to persuade kid to go back on his own?

Giving your children the opportunity to go to confession is fine. We should all do that.

They can confess venial sins if they choose. They must confess mortal sins.

It is not up to us to say someone has something to confess. It’s up to them.

 

[Regina7]

Finding a random document on the internet in Polish does not mean it is “commonplace” in Poland.

It wasn’t a random document on the Internet. Kids from World Youth day toured Poland and they found these booklets in many of the churches.

 

[Irishmom2]

It wasn’t a random document on the Internet. Kids from World Youth day toured Poland and they found these booklets in many of the churches.

For their own personal use!

 

[Usige]

It wasn’t a random document on the Internet. Kids from World Youth day toured Poland and they found these booklets in many of the churches.

Did these books actually explain how they were used and in what context? Is it possible they were something put out in anticipation of WYD to encourage kids to make frequent use of confession and not a normal part of the culture?

I’d be careful just assuming what they are and how they were used just because kids found them all over. Context is everything in this case.

 

[Usige]

How is the book signed? It could be passed under the grille or through it, depending on its design. There is no seal issue with that… Father makes his initials, passes it back, that’s it. It would depend also on the design of the book - can you see the last times one has been (which could tip off who it is possibly), can you see their name written, etc.

Even if it doesn’t require the priest to break the seal by knowing the particular penitent, the requirement of a child being required to submit a record of how often they ho to confession is problematic. Wether they go once, twice. 500 times or none has no bering on whether they can request the sacrament of Confirmation.

We make children apologize to other children, to parents, to teachers… why not make children apologize to God as well? The natural and supernatural are reflections of each other. Of course, there is a right way to go about it, and a thousand wrong ways. But it can be done.

We can encourage them to go, but an insincere confession does nothing. God knows our hearts and forcing a kid to go through the motions because we want them to does not bring them closer to God.

 

[Regina7]

For their own personal use!

No, it was part of their program for confirmation, at least that’s what the Polish priest said.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

A prior post related the thought that only by use of such a booklet, signed by the priest (passed under the grille) and thus identifying the individual, could the priest know whether someone is ready to be “presented” for Confirmation. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t such a use and action be a direct violation of the Seal? I thought Canon Law was specific that knowledge obtained during Confession could NOT be used to take some action outside of Confession.

 

[1ke]

I thought Canon Law was specific that knowledge obtained during Confession could NOT be used to take some action outside of Confession.

You are correct.

 

[1ke]

No, it was part of their program for confirmation, at least that’s what the Polish priest said.

Our pastor is from Poland, part of the diocese’s plan for the priest shortage, and we have no such requirement.

 

[Pug]

A prior post related the thought that only by use of such a booklet, signed by the priest (passed under the grille) and thus identifying the individual, could the priest know whether someone is ready to be “presented” for Confirmation. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wouldn’t such a use and action be a direct violation of the Seal? I thought Canon Law was specific that knowledge obtained during Confession could NOT be used to take some action outside of Confession.

The only priests I’ve met refuse to identify who has and who has not been in their confessional. They have a set way they answer certain kinds of questions so as to never reveal who was or who wasn’t there in any situation, no matter how inconsequential the circumstances seem. I imagine it would be a gross violation of confession for a priest to pick up his cell phone and text to his best buddy “guess who’s in my confessional, the President of Podunk” as soon as the priest recognizes the voice. To me it seems little different to reveal to the religious education director that so and so was in his confessional also, but I am not a canon lawyer.

However, he can reveal stuff if the penitent waives the seal, and clearly having a book stuffed under the grille with a demand that it gets signed seems like a waiver, but then again, to me it sort of doesn’t seem like one since the person presenting the book may well feel forced to do that under threat of never receiving the full set of sacraments, which he or she normatively needs for their soul. (or possibly were made to do it by their parents).

Also, one might be inclined to say that it is the penitent who reveals the thing by handing in the book to the DRE?