confession

[guanophore]

The apostles could only remit sin with the power of the Gospel through preaching.

Can you please show where you find this in scripture? I agree that preaching was one of the duties of the Apostles, but since He gave them the power to forgive and remit sins separately from the instruction to preach, and it was as He “breathed upon them” I am cuirous how you confine this directive.

Let’s look at John 20:23. What does the catholic priest do after confession? Forgives your sins? Is it complete forgiveness? Does he remove all the guilt? The RCC teaches, no, he only removes the eternal punishment due for sin. One must remove the temporal punishment due by gaining indulgences or doing penance. Is this true forgiveness?

Yes, the forgiveness of sin is complete, and the guilt.

No, God does not always hold us responsible for the temporal effects of sins. Sometimes these are set aside also, and sometimes, they are not. That is up to God to decide. Although it is true that indulgences and penance can address the temporal effects of sin, it is wrong to say “one must”. Only God knows if His child needs to suffer consequences (chastizements) for the sake of their growth.

Its like telling a man who is condemned to death that the Governor has just pardoned him, but that he must still come back and suffer the temporal punishment due for his crime. He must be hanged.

Is this true pardon?

No, but you are conflating the eternal and the temporal consequences of sins. Jesus paid the eternal consequences in full on the cross. Sometimes, He ordains that we still suffer the temporal consequences, if they are necessary for our growth. One of the best examples of this Jesus gives from the cross. He pardons the thief who professes faith in Him. However, He does not spare that thief what the thief HImself attested was the “just punishment for our crimes”. Instead of taking the thief whose eternal life He promised, He left him there on the cross to suffer that just punishment for the rest of the day. He did not spare the man getting his legs broken and suffering a horrible death.

 

[guanophore]

Hi Jerry, glad to hear from you. Actually we only have to confess Mortal sin. Venial sin can be confessed only once a year. They like you to come as often as you want but its only Mortal sin thats a concern.

This is not true, rinnie. Venial sins can be brought to confession, but they are also confessed during daily Mass (or weekly).

I don’t know where you got the idea that venial sin can be confessed only once a year. This is not consistent with anything in Church teaching. I am behind on the thread, so if this has already been addressed, I apologize.

 

[guanophore]

Well I have a question:
Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?
(I am not asking whether or not one should confess to a priest, I am just asking why this should be the single way to confess one’s sins to God.)

It is more like a “get to” than a “have to”. It is a great relief to hear in the ears “your sins are forgiven”.

For some reason you think that, since the priest is present, Jesus is not present, or He is not “direct”. Jesus knows what humans need, and this is the way He set things up.

You are in error that this is teh “single way to confess one’s sins to God”. Why do you post such wrong information?

 

[JonNC]

Well I have a question:
Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?
(I am not asking whether or not one should confess to a priest, I am just asking why this should be the single way to confess one’s sins to God.)

First, of course you can confess directly to God. For example. we do so everytime we say the Lord’s Prayer, “*forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. *But I have found that both in corporate confession at the beginning of the divine service, and in private confession with my pastor/confessor, there is a special confirmation of that forgiveness from God when His called and ordained agent states, “as a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore forgive you all of your sins, in the Name of the Father, and ofe Son , and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.” It is a message that brings special certainty of God’s forgiveness, a wonderful comfort.

Jon

 

[Janet1983]

It is more like a “get to” than a “have to”. It is a great relief to hear in the ears “your sins are forgiven”.

For some reason you think that, since the priest is present, Jesus is not present, or He is not “direct”. Jesus knows what humans need, and this is the way He set things up.

You are in error that this is teh “single way to confess one’s sins to God”. Why do you post such wrong information?

In my question I purposely did not question the validity of confession (as this would lead further than my original intent).
I simply questioned why there should be no other way of confessing one’s sins than through a priest. Why is it that one who desires to obtain reconciliation with God must confess to a priest according to the CCC?

1424 It is called the sacrament of confession, since** the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element** of this sacrament. In a profound sense it is also a “confession” - acknowledgment and praise - of the holiness of God and of his mercy toward sinful man.
It is called the sacrament of forgiveness, since by the priest’s sacramental absolution God grants the penitent “pardon and peace.”
It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation, because it imparts to the sinner the love of God who reconciles: “Be reconciled to God.” He who lives by God’s merciful love is ready to respond to the Lord’s call: “Go; first be reconciled to your brother.”

1446 Christ instituted the sacrament of Penance for all sinful members of his Church: above all for those who, since Baptism, have fallen into grave sin, and have thus lost their baptismal grace and wounded ecclesial communion. It is to them that the sacrament of Penance offers a new possibility to convert and to recover the grace of justification. The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as “the second plank [of salvation]
after the shipwreck which is the loss of grace.”

1448 Beneath the changes in discipline and celebration that this sacrament has undergone over the centuries, the same fundamental structure is to be discerned. It comprises two equally essential elements: on the one hand, the acts of the man who undergoes conversion through the action of the Holy Spirit: namely, contrition, confession, and satisfaction; on the other, God’s action through the intervention of the Church. The Church, who through the bishop and his priests forgives sins in the name of Jesus Christ and determines the manner of satisfaction, also prays for the sinner and does penance with him. Thus the sinner is healed and re-established in ecclesial communion.

1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: “All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly.”
When Christ’s faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, “for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know.”

1493 One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience. The confession of venial faults, without being necessary in itself, is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church.

1495 Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.

 

[guanophore]

Lets be honest here, ok. Can you go through an entire day or week without committing a single sin, whether its in thought or deed? If you are honest you will have to save no. The New Covenant, which we are under is a time of grace, not sacrifices which was Old Testament.

Being under grace does not mean we don’t make sacrifices.

It is possible to live without sinning. Jesus came to save us from our sins, past, present, and future. It is not His will that we continue in sin. He gives us the grace to avoid sin.

 We no longer need priests. Jesus Christ is the last priest...the High Priest. He now sits at the Father's right hand as Mediator and Intercessor. We no longer need men interceding. We have Jesus Christ.

If Jesus did not think we needed priests, He would not have ordained any. When He instituted the Last Supper, He commanded them “do this”. The language used is the priestly language of amanesis.

 The Scriptures tell us that anyone who sins against God must go to God alone and ask forgiveness. If you blaspheme God for example, no man can tell you you are absolved... go in peace.

Jacob, you are creating a false dichotomy. You seem to think that the priest hears confession “instead” of God. This is not the case.

What makes you think that God decided to STOP working through people after Christ came?

What is it about telling your sins to someone that is so frightening? If you can answer that, you will understand the reason Jesus set it up this way. It is how He wants to heal us of shame.

 Where does the Scriptures teach that Christ gave us a sacramental system?

If you have defined “system”, please refer me to the post. I have asked you this six times now, and can’t find an answer. I think it just comes from some misinformed anti-Catholic source, but I am willing to listen to your explanation anyway.

 Jesus said of the Last Supper, do this in Remembrance of Me. Remember what? All that he had taught during His earthly mission. He was not referring to His sacrifice on the Cross because he had not yet been crucified.

Jacob, it appears that you have missed the whole point of the Passover sacrifice.

 There's nothing about the catholic priesthood in the Bible.

Well, we read it differently, don’t we? You read it with anti-Catholic glasses. We read it from the point of view of the Apostles.

Nothing about an altar with Christ’s sacrifice being re-presented. Nothing about the apostles ever forgiving any one their sins. Instead, they told sinners to go directly to God.

It seems you have been wrongly informed about a number of Catholic doctrines, Jacob. I hope and pray you are able to surmount your hostility and prejudice so that you can learn the errors of that to which you have been exposed.

 

[guanophore]

I twist nothing.

I am sure it seems that way to you. I think it was twisted when you recieved it, and it seems quite orderly in your head. That is the nature of the perceptual beast. .

The truth is, my friends, the Scriptures nowhere teaches a NT priesthood with Priest, victim and sacrifice. That’s a carry over from the OT but Jesus fulfilled it and became High Priest forever.

Well, we read it differently,don’t we? We see the priesthood, victim, and sacrifice all through it. This is because we read it according to the Apostolic teaching. When you read it, you do so according to the lenses given you by anti-sacramentalists. These things are not “carry overs from the OT”, anymore than Jesus as the Passover sacrifice is a 'carryover". On the contrary, they are the fulfillment of what was forshadowed. Confession is forshadowed in the OT, and fulfilled in the New.

The Jews sought to stone Jesus because He claimed to forgive sins. The Jews understood perfectly that only God can forgive sins. .

I am curious how you dispense with the Scripture that Jesus gave this authority to men?

 

[guanophore]

First, of course you can confess directly to God. For example. we do so everytime we say the Lord’s Prayer, “*forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. *But I have found that both in corporate confession at the beginning of the divine service, and in private confession with my pastor/confessor, there is a special confirmation of that forgiveness from God when His called and ordained agent states, “as a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore forgive you all of your sins, in the Name of the Father, and ofe Son , and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.” It is a message that brings special certainty of God’s forgiveness, a wonderful comfort.

Jon

Thank you Jon, this is an excellentn testimony. It also brings to the fore that which the anti-sacramentalists miss, that these events are an occassion for the reception of God’s healing grace. God knows that we are created with the need for this ministry, and He provided it for our benefit. In it, we are healed of shame and doubt (about being forgiven).

 

[guanophore]

I simply questioned why there should be no other way of confessing one’s sins than through a priest. Why is it that one who desires to obtain reconciliation with God must confess to a priest according to the CCC?

Your question is based upon a lie, Janet. The Catholic Church does not teach this, and it is not in the CCC. I am mystified what need it meets in you to post such drivel.

 

[Janet1983]

Your question is based upon a lie, Janet. The Catholic Church does not teach this, and it is not in the CCC. I am mystified what need it meets in you to post such drivel.

How come? I quoted the CCC in my post…
Are you telling me that these quotes are not true? (I went ahead and made sure I quoted the whole numbers too just to make sure).
What is there to misinterpret in “Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.”?

 

[rinnie]

This is not true, rinnie. Venial sins can be brought to confession, but they are also confessed during daily Mass (or weekly).

I don’t know where you got the idea that venial sin can be confessed only once a year. This is not consistent with anything in Church teaching. I am behind on the thread, so if this has already been addressed, I apologize.

What I meant was we must confess at least once a year even if it is only venial sins. Even if we do not have mortal sin we must still at LEAST confess once a year. Venial sins of course are confessed everyday or at least every Sunday before we can get communion. But if I do not have mortal sin, I must confess venial sins then at Least once a year, but it should be more though!

 

[guanophore]

What I meant was we must confess at least once a year even if it is only venial sins. Even if we do not have mortal sin we must still at LEAST confess once a year. Venial sins of course are confessed everyday or at least every Sunday before we can get communion. But if I do not have mortal sin, I must confess venial sins then at Least once a year, but it should be more though!

OK, good. This is my understanding also.

 

[guanophore]

How come? I quoted the CCC in my post…
Are you telling me that these quotes are not true? (I went ahead and made sure I quoted the whole numbers too just to make sure).

No, I am telling you that your interpretation is not.

What is there to misinterpret in “Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.”?

It is a mystery to me that you are able to misinterpret the Catholic Teaching as you do, however, I must admit that I do see you do it.

The fact that priest has been ordained to forgive sins, and non-ordained persons do not have that authority does not mean this is the only way to be forgiven.

 

[Janet1983]

No, I am telling you that your interpretation is not.

Well if you say so. Then according to you my question is unfounded… Though I did not quite see that in my sources. I was under the impression that sins that the CC considers mortal definitely have to be confessed to a priest according to Catholic teaching. I guess I was wrong in the assumption that this would be an essential part in penance and necessary for forgiveness according to the teaching of the church.
I did not realize that confession to a priest is not necessary in order to do penance for one’s sins.

 

[guanophore]

Well if you say so. Then according to you my question is unfounded… Though I did not quite see that in my sources.

Most of us “see” what we expect to see. Since you are constantly searching for information to invalidate Catholicism, that is what you are most likely to find.

Your question was based upon a false premise. In order to answer it the way it was posed, one would have to accept the false premise.

I simply questioned why there should be no other way of confessing one’s sins than through a priest.

Here is the false premise.

There are many ways to confess one’s sins, especially when there is no priest available to hear confession.

 Why is it that one who desires to obtain reconciliation with God **must confess to a priest** according to the CCC?

Mortal sins separate us from God, and from His Body, the Church. The priest has the ministry of reconciliation, as passed down from the Apostles. It is his duty and privilege to restore sinners to right relationship with God and with the Church after they have separated themselves by sin.

God, however, is not bound by the sacramental priesthood. God can restore whoever He wants, however He likes.

I was under the impression that sins that the CC considers mortal definitely have to be confessed to a priest according to Catholic teaching.

This is the normative means, certainly. It is a little known fact that the Sacrament of Annointing also forgives mortal sins.

I guess I was wrong in the assumption that this would be an essential part in penance and necessary for forgiveness according to the teaching of the church.

This is the first time I have ever heard you admit that you were wrong about something, Janet. You can’t imagine what joy it gives me to know this is possible. :extrahappy:

Penance can be done anytime, anywhere, for any reason. We are encouraged to approach all of life with a penitential attitude (all things work together for the good). We can add our sufferings to those of Christ, on behalf of others who are unable or unwilling to do penance.

I did not realize that confession to a priest is not necessary in order to do penance for one’s sins.

Penance done when one is not in a state of grace will not have eternal value. One cannot “work off” ones sins. However, Catholics are encouraged to make an examination of conscience daily, and pray an act of contrition. This is also done at daily Mass. These confessions are sufficient for venial sins, and will maintain a person in a state of grace.

 

[rinnie]

First, of course you can confess directly to God. For example. we do so everytime we say the Lord’s Prayer, “*forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us”. *But I have found that both in corporate confession at the beginning of the divine service, and in private confession with my pastor/confessor, there is a special confirmation of that forgiveness from God when His called and ordained agent states, “as a called and ordained servant of Christ, and by His authority, I therefore forgive you all of your sins, in the Name of the Father, and ofe Son , and of the Holy Spirit, Amen.” It is a message that brings special certainty of God’s forgiveness, a wonderful comfort.

Jon

JON! Bravo Bravo that is the best response I have heard yet!

 

[rinnie]

OK, good. This is my understanding also.

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

When Jesus was here he forgave the sins of many. On another site I have had alot of questions about the Sacrament of confession. So this thread is going to be on questions about that sacrament.

Hopefully we can answer any questions you have.

So fire away!

This link has probably already been posted, but just in case it hasn’t, read this:
catholic.com/library/Forgiveness_of_Sins.asp

 

[Irish_Catholic_1]

Why is is that you HAVE to confess your sins to a priest?
Can’t you just go ahead and ask God directly for forgiveness?

When you confess to a priest you ARE going to God, in the manner that God has prescribed.

Christ gave the apostles - and therefore their successors - the authority to forgive sins in his name. It is at their discression how to excersise that authority. To balance things out, they have decided that you CAN confess to God directly, but for more serious mortal sins one needs to partake in the ministry of forgiveness which Chirst endowed his Church with

 

[PRmerger]

I simply questioned why there should be no other way of confessing one’s sins than through a priest. Why is it that one who desires to obtain reconciliation with God must confess to a priest according to the CCC?

This, also, from the CCC, might clarify things for you, Janet. Our sins are forgiven when we have “perfect contrition”.

“Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is ‘sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed together with the resolution not to sin again.’ When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called ‘perfect’ (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible” (CCC 1451–1452).

From www.catholic.com:

Q:“ I know a Catholic serving in Iraq. He goes to Mass whenever possible in his remote location. There has been no priest available to hear confessions for a couple of weeks. If he has serious sin to confess and wants to confess but can’t due to circumstances beyond his control, what would happen to him if he dies? He prays fervently and constantly asks for God’s forgiveness and guidance, but is that enough?

”A: His sins are forgiven when he makes an act of perfect contrition with the resolution to go to confession as soon as possible.