Confession

[Emad]

Jabronie:

You’re not understanding the concept correctly. In the sacrament, a person is not confessing to the priest. They are confession to God through the priest. The priest serves as a witness to the confession just like he serves as a witness to the sacrament of marriage. He reconciles you to the Church in the same way he sacramently joins you to your wife.

It’s one of those things where to recognize the beauty of confession, you need to recognize the sacrament of Holy Orders, something which non-Catholics do not…

Emad: I’m just trying to make sure you understand the concept; not trying to force you to agree with it.

Thank you for your effort in explaining. However I don’t see why he has to witness your confession. Can you explain the reason behind it? Also why is it a priest and not any normal person? Is the priest better than others?

 

[MariaG]

Emad:

So go back to my first post on this thread. Your telling me Jesus gave such people authority on his behalf? Would he ever affiliate himself with such people? Also can you state references for your claims? Whom did Jesus give authority to forgive people on his behlaf?

John 20:21-23

21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

This was specifically given to the apostles. And through the apostolic teaching authority, priests today.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[MariaG]

Emad:

Thank you for your effort in explaining. However I don’t see why he has to witness your confession. Can you explain the reason behind it? Also why is it a priest and not any normal person? Is the priest better than others?

The reason behind it is simple.

Jesus said so.

So yes, a priest must be “better” since that is how Christ wishes us to confess.

Confession as practiced by the Catholic Church is so wonderfully Biblical!

God Bless,
Maria

 

[LilyM]

Emad:

Thank you for your effort in explaining. However I don’t see why he has to witness your confession. Can you explain the reason behind it? Also why is it a priest and not any normal person? Is the priest better than others?

Not better as a person, but by virtue of his office as a priest he has been given the power to perform certain functions and tasks as representative of Christ and God on Earth that others can’t. These include things like baptism and marriage, as well as (for Catholics) hearing our sins and declaring them forgiven.

 

[Emad]

Emad:

I never understood confession. What is the point of it? Let’s assume the priest was a child molestor, drug dealer, theif, adulterer, and bisexual. Why should someone confess to him and what power does he have to forgive you? I know not all priests are anything like that, but let’s just assume that the one you confess to is. I would never confess to such a person.

What if the priest is like the one I listed above? Would you really confess to him?

 

[Jabronie]

Emad:

Thank you for your effort in explaining. However I don’t see why he has to witness your confession. Can you explain the reason behind it? Also why is it a priest and not any normal person? Is the priest better than others?

I wouldn’t say that the priest is better. Just different. It goes to the sacrament of Holy Orders, where he is given the Holy Spirit and the power to bind and loose. The tradition is based on when Jesus breathes on the apostles and gives the whole “who’s sin you forgive are forgiven…” speech. I’m sure someone here could explain Holy Orders better than I.

The thing about Catholicism is that none of us can really explain just one part of it without looking at the entire religion as a whole. Take confession for example, since that’s the topic of this thread. No where in the Bible does it specifically say “confess your sins in the presence of a Catholic priest.” We have to pull out a whole bunch of pieces of the puzzle and put them together. The Bible lists certain sins as deadly. In 1 John 5:16-17 it talks about some sins that you can’t simply be sorry for. So what does it take?

In my case, I used to look at each “Catholic thing” and decide whether or not I agreed with it. That just didn’t work. Once I started looking at the entire faith as a puzzle, with each item as pieces of the puzzle, everything just… fit. I think that is part of the reason that some of us here have trouble answering direct questions about our beliefs, especially if we’re limited to the literal language used in a given translation.

Now for the bad news… I’m going to be without a computer for a few days and won’t be able to continue discussing anything until probably Saturday or Sunday.

 

[MariaG]

Emad:

What if the priest is like the one I listed above? Would you really confess to him?

If I had no other choice, yes. Since it is not a sinful man (which all priests are no matter to what degree) who is forgiving the sin, but God. The priest is just acting as his “agent” so to speak.

1441Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41
[1442](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1442.htm’) Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."43

Christ said, it. I think it is wise to try to follow Christ’s directives. Don’t you think Christ knew there would be sinful priests like that?

And He still directed His apostles to do it this way anyway.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[ahimsaman72]

Emad:

Why all the vertical horizontal stuff? Can’t you go straight to God? Also your relationship isn’t with the priest, you didn’t do anything wrong to him, so why confess to him? I would understand that logic if you are confessing to someone you wronged, but you really didn’t do anything to the priest, right?

You misunderstand. There’s a Scripture that says if one comes to the altar with an offering to God, yet has not reconciled with his faults with his brother, then he should go immediately out and reconcile with his brother first before bringing his gift on the altar.

There is no separation between your relationships with others and your relationship with God. This is a Biblical principle which you are free to believe or not believe.

Priests are appointed by the Church to administer such things on behalf of Christ. Therefore it is logical to confess to a priest your sins. He has the authority to deal with them.

Peace…

 

[Emad]

MariaG:

If I had no other choice, yes. Since it is not a sinful man (which all priests are no matter to what degree) who is forgiving the sin, but God. The priest is just acting as his “agent” so to speak.

1441Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41
[1442](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1442.htm’) Christ has willed that in her prayer and life and action his whole Church should be the sign and instrument of the forgiveness and reconciliation that he acquired for us at the price of his blood. But he entrusted the exercise of the power of absolution to the apostolic ministry which he charged with the "ministry of reconciliation."42 The apostle is sent out “on behalf of Christ” with “God making his appeal” through him and pleading: "Be reconciled to God."43

Christ said, it. I think it is wise to try to follow Christ’s directives. Don’t you think Christ knew there would be sinful priests like that?

And He still directed His apostles to do it this way anyway.

God Bless,
Maria

So you would allow your child to be all alone with a priest who is a child molestor in order to confess to him?

 

[sadie2723]

Emad:

So you would allow your child to be all alone with a priest who is a child molestor in order to confess to him?

Naturally, if I was aware that a priest was a pedafile, I would not allow my child to confess to him alone. However, I would find a priest that was not a pedafile and have my child confess to him, as confession is essential to salvation.’

Brad

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Emad:

So you would allow your child to be all alone with a priest who is a child molestor in order to confess to him?

Is your question about the validity of confession, or about the safety of leaving people alone with those whose behavior you don’t trust?

Or are you just trying to change the questionas answers are provided to pick at the sacramen? It would seem this is the case.

Why not broaden the theme and ask “would you be a member of a Church whose practitioners have practiced suicide bombings?”

See how silly that is? You could apply it to any religion, I chose one you can relate to.

The flaws of the inidivudal do not negate the validity of the Church’s teachings.

 

[Subrosa]

Hi Emad! Answers, dude!

Emad:

I never understood confession.

Well, duh! You are muslim! how could you possibly understand it? It is not a part of your faith, (if I understand it correctly) You see, I don’t understand much of anything about Islam. I must say that I respect it for it is a path to God.

What is the point of it?

The whole point is to reconcile with God. You see, sin in any form is offensive to God. So, if we take responsablility for our actions and confess them, God forgives us. Christ says that the authority to forgive sins was given to Him by His Father. He then passed on that ability to His apostles, and through them to the rest of His church. It is all about reconciling with God. In the church, this sacrament is called the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Here…nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/john/john20.htm… read verses 19 thru 23. Also read verse 28. I’m sure you’ll find it interesting. In fact, read the whole thing!

Let’s assume the priest was a child molestor, drug dealer, theif, adulterer, and bisexual. Why should someone confess to him and what power does he have to forgive you? I know not all priests are anything like that, but let’s just assume that the one you confess to is. I would never confess to such a person.

All humans are fallable. It is the Holy Spirit that is not fallable. Once a man is ordained a priest, the Holy Spirit is at work within him, even if he has become a murderer. It is the Holy Spirit that affects forgiveness. The priest is meerly an “ambassador.” Read verses 18 thru 21…nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/2corinthians/2corinthians5.htm

Also do you believe that those who don’t confess go to hell? Thus protestants go to hell?

Only God knows who is condemned. But it stands to reason, if you have sinned and have not reconciled with Him, what do you suppose He will do?

By the way, hell is for people who reject God. Protestants have not rejected God. We Catholics understand that they cannot be held responsable for misunderstandings and incorrect teachings. We believe that God will not abandon them.

Jesus teaches through parables. In His parables, God is represented by the person who is in authority. Here are two…

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/luke/luke15.htm Read Vss. 11- 32. Pay special attention to verse 21. It is the essence of confession.

nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/luke/luke18.htm Read Vss. 9-14. This explains how humility brings a person to reconcile with God.

I hope that you gain an understanding of confession and it’s reason. It brings us into God’s grace and was instituted by Christ in order to do just that.

God bless you, Edam,
Subrosa

 

[Emad]

Naturally, if I was aware that a priest was a pedafile, I would not allow my child to confess to him alone. However, I would find a priest that was not a pedafile and have my child confess to him, as confession is essential to salvation.’

Why not? If he is appointed by the Church, child molesting is a sin, why would you refuse your child to confess to a person who has sin type A and you wouldn’t mind if he has sin type B or C?

 

[Emad]

Is your question about the validity of confession, or about the safety of leaving people alone with those whose behavior you don’t trust?

Or are you just trying to change the questionas answers are provided to pick at the sacramen? It would seem this is the case.

Why not broaden the theme and ask “would you be a member of a Church whose practitioners have practiced suicide bombings?”

No I wouldn’t and you can’t compare the two. Because you believe that such a person was appointed by God, while I believe that anyone who practices suicide bombers is a major sinner and is far from the teachings of God.

The flaws of the inidivudal do not negate the validity of the Church’s teachings.

Well the Church is telling you to confess to someone who is a sinner just like yourself or even worse, perhaps in God’s eyes you are 100 times better then him, so why should you confess to him and not him to you? Or better yet, why don’t you both just go straight to God?

 

[sadie2723]

Emad:

Naturally, if I was aware that a priest was a pedafile, I would not allow my child to confess to him alone. However, I would find a priest that was not a pedafile and have my child confess to him, as confession is essential to salvation.’

Why not? If he is appointed by the Church, child molesting is a sin, why would you refuse your child to confess to a person who has sin type A and you wouldn’t mind if he has sin type B or C?

Simple. We all have weakness that we fall to. God tells us not to give into temptation and, in fact, to avoid it. It would also be sinful to take a person suceptable to temptation and place him in a situation where he was tempted. Thus, if a person was once guilty of theft, it would not hypothetically be erronious for my child to confess to him.

Now, you have asked me several questions, allow me to ask you one. Why is it that you are convinced that confession is wrong? I would also ask you this, why does it matter. For goodness sakes, you are Islamic. This does not apply to your faith. Thus, I am failing to see why you are concerned.

Now, if you are are considering conversion to the Catholic faith, I can then appreciate your question.

Thanks for your comments…I find them stimulating.

 

[Emad]

No I wouldn’t and you can’t compare the two. Because you believe that such a person was appointed by God, while I believe that anyone who practices suicide bombers is a major sinner and is far from the teachings of God.

Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean you can’t understand it. I am sure you don’t believe in our concept of God, but can you understand the concept of Him being One, without any partner, son, mother, wife, helper etc?

The whole point is to reconcile with God. You see, sin in any form is offensive to God. So, if we take responsablility for our actions and confess them, God forgives us. Christ says that the authority to forgive sins was given to Him by His Father. He then passed on that ability to His apostles, and through them to the rest of His church. It is all about reconciling with God. In the church, this sacrament is called the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

So Jesus appointed these evil priests that some may confess to? I would understand if priests were angels, but they are not, some may be theives and maybe 100times worse than the average Christian.

All humans are fallable. It is the Holy Spirit that is not fallable. Once a man is ordained a priest, the Holy Spirit is at work within him, even if he has become a murderer. It is the Holy Spirit that affects forgiveness.

So why not go directly to the Holy spirit? Also if the Holy spirit is at work with him, why doesn’t it prevent him from molestation, murder and stealing?

Only God knows who is condemned. But it stands to reason, if you have sinned and have not reconciled with Him, what do you suppose He will do?

This is a good point, only God knows who is condemned, so the person you might be confessing to might be condemned and he may not be, so why confess to someone who may be condemned? Also we are assuming that this person sincerely repented, then God would accept them, what if they didn’t repent, why should someone who did sincerely repent confess to someone who didn’t?

I hope that you gain an understanding of confession and it’s reason. It brings us into God’s grace and was instituted by Christ in order to do just that.

I am sorry, I still don’t understand this concept. Though I do appreciate your effort, thank you very much, but it still makes no sense to me. Perhaps the protestants have the right interpretation on this one?

 

[Emad]

Simple. We all have weakness that we fall to. God tells us not to give into temptation and, in fact, to avoid it. It would also be sinful to take a person suceptable to temptation and place him in a situation where he was tempted. Thus, if a person was once guilty of theft, it would not hypothetically be erronious for my child to confess to him.

So you wouldn’t mind confessing to him? Would you really feel comfortable with that?

Why is it that you are convinced that confession is wrong?

I believe one should go directly to God and not to anyone else. I think that is common sense. Such a person whom you confess to may be more evil then you, so why should you confess to him? Also he has no power to benefit you or harm you in anyway, so why go through him to God? Is it that hard to get to God, that you have to go through someone?

would also ask you this, why does it matter. For goodness sakes, you are Islamic. This does not apply to your faith. Thus, I am failing to see why you are concerned.

I am trying to understand and learn, is there something wrong with that? Is asking questions offensive to you or against your religion?

Now, if you are are considering conversion to the Catholic faith, I can then appreciate your question.

No I am not considering conversion. I am happy being a Muslim and I believe it is the absolute truth. However I hope this doesn’t mean that you want me to stop asking questions.

Thanks for your efforts.

 

[HappyCatholic01]

Keep asking questions, it is a good covnversation to be had.

 

[Subrosa]

Edam -

Don’t you know that God uses people who have sinned to His advantage?

In the ancient Hebrew text of the Exodus, Moses is chosen by God to lead His people out of bondage, and yet Moses was not perfect by any means. Please read verses 11-12. Feel free to read the rest of the story. nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/exodus/exodus2.htm

Paul, the most prominant New Testament writer was the same as Moses! His position in Isreal was to hunt down and kill Christians! Read Verses 1-19. nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/acts/acts9.htm

It is God who choses who will and will not do His work here on earth. Don’t you believe that the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was chosen by God? You see, the point I am making is that God choses whom He wishes. Mohammad, to my knowledge, commited no crimes.

It does not matter who the person is, it only matters that God has a use for that person.

God bless,
Subrosa

 

[Emad]

I agree that sometime God uses evil people to do certain things, however that has nothing to do with confession. Also since you say it doesn’t matter who the person is, would you allow your child to confess to a child moletstor or would you confess to someone whom you know is a theif? Would it feel right? Is that really the only way to God? I am just trying to stimulate some thinking and not blind following. I wish for you the best, and if I see something as false I wish to point it out to you.