Confessions,right or wrong?

[eva77]

I found this on a social site,and i need a good response for them,mind though,i don’t doubt my faith, ever. I don’t need convinction,i have them,in the zillion times my faith has seen me through. Here it is…

Regarding the forgiveness of sins, two critical doctrines must be
examined. First, all sins must be confessed to a priest: “One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the
Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he
remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” Pg. 374, #1493 “Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of
Penance:” Pg. 365, #1456 "It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or
confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. Pg. 357, #1424 (See also Pg. 374, #1493). Catholicism orders members to confess their sins to a man, but the
Bible reveals that those who have been born into God’s family can go
straight to God’s throne to receive forgiveness for their sins: "I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I
said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou
forgavest the iniquity of my sin. " Psalm 32:5 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and
to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9 David confessed his sins to God when he prayed: “Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.” Psalm 51:2-3 Here is why true Christians have access to God’ s throne: “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the
blood of Jesus…” Hebrews 10:19 Because of the sinless blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross, we have the authority to go straight to the throne of God for forgiveness. The “first pope’s” example In the book of Acts, a man named Simon came to the alleged first pope,
Peter, wanting to buy the power of the Holy Spirit. How did Peter
respond to this sin? Did he suggest that Simon make a confession to
him right there? No, Peter told him to repent and confess his sin to God
and ask God to forgive him. (See Acts 8:18-22). Can priests forgive sins? The second part of this doctrine suggests that Catholic priests have the
power to forgive sins: “Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the
authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.” Pg. 374, #1495 (See also Pg. 364 #1448 ) Here, too, Catholic doctrine opposes God’s Word: “Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?” Mark 2:7 Catholicism teaches that the priest is a mediator between God and
man. (See Pg. 365, #1456). But the Bible recognizes only one
mediator: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
man Christ Jesus;” 1 Timothy 2:5 Once again, the Catechism admits that these are not instructions from
God, but traditions of men: “The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as the second plank
[of salvation]…” Pg. 363 #1446 More bondage “According to the Church’s command, ‘after having attained the age of
discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to
confess serious sins at least once a year.’” Pg. 365, #1457 (Emphasis
author’s) There is that word “bound” again. The Church Fathers created another
tradition which keeps people in bondage to the Catholic church. What a powerful weapon to use against Catholics around the world. In
essence, this doctrine says that if you leave the Catholic church, you
will not be able to obtain forgiveness for your sins, which means you
won’t go to heaven. Please remember, none of this came from God! These are all man-made
threats. May God open your spiritual eyes and give you understanding,
so that you may see the depth of the bondage this religion holds you
in. May God show you that you don’t have to be held captive to this
religion any longer. Jesus Christ wants to set you free. Conclusion Millions of faithful Catholics blindly file into confessional booths,
believing that the priest has the power to forgive their sins. What about you? Where will you go to have your sins forgiven? To a
sinful priest, as the man-made traditions of the Catholic church
demand? Or will you go straight to God Almighty, as the Bible teaches? “Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice:
let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou,
LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is
forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.” Psalm 130:1-4

 

[eva77]

Come on people i need an answer to blast this guy right off his high horse. Maybe i posted this in the wrong sectionshrugs.

 

[1ke]

Come on people i need an answer to blast this guy right off his high horse. Maybe i posted this in the wrong sectionshrugs.

No, you don’t need an answer to “blast” this guy anywhere. Charity, charity, charity.

This isn’t someone you know. This is something you randomly found on some social site? And you expect to post something to, what, refute all this junk?

Why is it that you cannot come up with something on your own and then post it here for critique? If you are so hot to “blast” people, you can do your own work on it. If you can’t run with the big dogs, don’t get off the porch. That’s MHO.

 

[po18guy]

Come on people i need an answer to blast this guy right off his high horse. Maybe i posted this in the wrong sectionshrugs.

Where is your catechism? Where is your copy of Catholicism for Dummies? Where’s your bible? At some point, you will have to stand and defend the faith without your crew having your back.

**James 5:16

Matthew 18:17-18

John 20:23

2 Corinthians 2:10** Use the King James Version

Do not expect them to be convinced. Far better than arguing is praying for them. It is not nearly as satisfying, but it let’s God work through His Holy Spirit, rather than us trying to work despite our limitations.

 

[InternetWoman]

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread…

Gospel of John 20:19:23. Key points to notice:

1. 
   *]Jesus is speaking to the 12 (John calls them disciples).
   *]As the Father has sent me so I send you. Jesus had the power to forgive sins, so he gave it to his Apostles.
   *]He breathed on them - gave them the Holy Spirit.
   *]THEN he gave them the power to forgive sins.
   
   Some people might argue from “whose sins your forgive are forgiven them” that it is just a call for all Christians to be forgiving. But what do you do with part two? “Whose sins you retain are retained?” Jesus gave his Apostles the power to retain sins.
   
   Another suggestion - use CA’s search feature for additional threads on this topic. You might want to start here:
   
   forum.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=635063&highlight=priests+forgive+sins
   
   I agree with a prior responder - if you respond on this site with anger or scorn it will only generate more anger. 1 Peter 4:15b:16
   

   Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for you hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence

 

[po18guy]

2 Corinthians 2:10 is a verse that they have probably never focused on, assuming they have read it - since it’s not in Romans.

King James Version (KJV - NOT a Catholic bible)
To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ

And, the Priest acts in exactly the same capacity as Saint Paul - the person of Christ.

 

[snarflemike]

This is an example of the shotgun style of attack on the Church. Where to begin? The only thing you can do is force them to choose one point and stick to it. Never, ever, try to answer such a broad and scattered attack as this one.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

You’re asking too many questions in one post.

This is typical Protestant baloney. Christianity wasn’t based on the Bible. The Bible didn’t exist until the end of the fourth century when the Church canonized 27 of her own writings and named them the New Testament. At the same time, in the same Councils, she canonized 46 writings of the Greek Septuagint and named them the Old Testament. The Church named her entire collection of sacred Scripture tá Biblia – the Bible. The Catholic Church didn’t come out of the Bible like all Protestant “churches” do – rather, the Bible came out of the Catholic Church!

When the Church selected the contents of the NT, she made sure all the ‘books’ conformed to her teaching. Those that didn’t were rejected. The Church is guided by the Spirit (John 14:15-18, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7-15). Protestants are guided by their own misinterpretation of the Church’s Scriptures.

Suggestion: Ask your correspondent where we got the Bible?

Recommended reading: Where We Got the Bible, Our Debt to the Catholic Church, by Henry Graham, available at Catholic Answers and Amazon.

As for Confession, read John 20:19-23. The first Christians, taught by the lips of the Apostles, confessed their sins to an ordained priest or bishop, were assigned a penance, and received absolution. Tell 'em to read the history of Christianity.

Christ promised to remain with the Church ALWAYS (Mt 28:20). Your correspondent makes Jesus a liar.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[EricFilmer]

I found this on a social site,and i need a good response for them,mind though,i don’t doubt my faith, ever. I don’t need convinction,i have them,in the zillion times my faith has seen me through. Here it is…

…Regarding the forgiveness of sins, two critical doctrines must be
examined. First, all sins must be confessed to a priest: “One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the
Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he
remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.” Pg. 374, #1493

Before we get into grave sins, first let us consider what the Catholic Church teaches concerning venial sins as well, so that we have a nice overview of the whole topic. God forgives venial sins in a variety of ways, both within certain sacraments (Baptism, Eucharist, Anointing of the Sick, Reconciliation) and outside of the sacraments (such as prayer, fasting and works of charity). So Catholics can be absolved of venial sin by taking advantage of sacraments with a priest or by going, as this person said, “directly to God.”

Grave sins (aka, mortal sins) can be forgiven through sacraments such as Baptism and Reconciliation (aka, Confession) or outside of the sacraments via “perfect contrition” (see CCC #1452 for details on this). It is important to keep in mind that in the Sacrament of Reconciliation God is absolving the penitent through the priest, who personally represents Christ. The priest is the channel of saving grace, not the source.

Bible reveals that those who have been born into God’s family can go
straight to God’s throne to receive forgiveness for their sins: "I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I
said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou
forgavest the iniquity of my sin. " Psalm 32:5 “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and
to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9 David confessed his sins to God when he prayed: “Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.
For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.” Psalm 51:2-3

If this is all it takes then why did Jesus institute Baptism? Let us keep in mind that Baptism, like Confession, also deals with the forgiveness of sins (although some Protestant denominations have different notions concerning this; we really don’t know what the specific faith background is of the author you have cited). If all I have to do is ask God to wash me of my sins then there is no need to have water poured over me while a minister recites the baptismal formula. I will say a bit more about Baptism in a moment.

Moving on, let us consider what else the Bible says about the forgiveness of sins. In the Letter of James we read…

Is any among you sick?
Let him call for the elders of the church,
and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
and the prayer of faith will save the sick man,
and the Lord will raise him up;
and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. (James 5:14-15, RSV, emphasis added)

The term “elders” is an English translation of the Greek word presbuteros, or “presbyters”, which Catholics have always understood to indicate the Christian priests of the Apostolic age. Therefore, what James describes above are priests having a prayer of faith which results in a sick man being healed and having his sins forgiven. Hence this is a biblical example of a priest’s prayer of faith being a channel of God’s reconciling grace into the life of another. Obviously Protestants interpret this differently than Catholics, but simply because they can come up with a different interpretation does not automatically render the Catholic interpretation incorrect. But many Protestants act like it does, and in so doing they exhibit fallacious reasoning (a non sequitur to be exact).

James then goes on to state…

Therefore confess your sins to one another,
and pray for one another, that you may be healed.
The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. (James 5:16, RSV, emphasis added)

Notice James does not say, “Confess your sins directly to God” but rather, “Confess your sins to one another.”

(Continued in my next post)

 

[EricFilmer]

(Continued)

Moreover, since James told his followers to confess their sins to other people, and since he said that the “prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects,” we can easily imagine that many people confessed their sins to James. Remember also that James said that the prayer of a presbyter could result in another person’s sins being forgiven. Even though people interpret the New Testament’s usage of “presbyter” in different ways (such as “priest” or “elder”), it is hard to imagine James himself not being one of those presbyters, regardless as to what is meant by the term.

And what would James have done after people confessed their sins to him? Well, let us turn to the Gospel of John:

Jesus said to them again,
“Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
And when he had said this, he breathed on them,
and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven;
if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (John 20:21-23, RSV)

Notice that Jesus said that he was sending the Apostles to continue the same ministry that the Father had sent him (i.e., “As the Father has sent me, even so I send you”). The primary reason the Father sent Jesus was to reconcile fallen humanity to himself. After his resurrection, Jesus empowered the Apostles to forgive or retain sins as part of that ministry (which is why we call it the Sacrament of Reconciliation).

Also note that an Apostle could not tell people that their sins were forgiven or retained unless those people first told the Apostle what their sins were. In other words, they had to confess their sins to the Apostles. Keep in mind that in such a situation, an Apostle had to make a decision to either forgive or retain, and such a judgment could not be rendered without knowledge of exactly what the sin in question was.

Going back to my earlier comments concerning James, once someone confessed his sins to James (because James was a “presbyter” and a “righteous man”, based on James 5:14-16), we can expect that James then told him that his sins were either forgiven or retained (based on John 20:21-23), and therefore we see the essence of sacramental confession by piecing together these Bible passages from James and John. Of course, in Catholicism we derive the Sacrament of Reconciliation also from Sacred Tradition (as we do with a number of other doctrinal matters) and we do not believe that a doctrine has to be clearly derived from Scripture in order to be valid. But my point here is that the Sacrament of Reconciliation is biblical in the manner that I just demonstrated. Of course, the Bible passages I cited are open to other interpretations, and I will address that more in a bit.

Here is why true Christians have access to God’ s throne: “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the
blood of Jesus…” Hebrews 10:19 Because of the sinless blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross, we have the authority to go straight to the throne of God for forgiveness.

Does this person believe in the sacrament of Baptism as the primary way through which God forgives sins? Is so then he believes that the grace of the “sinless blood that Jesus Christ shed on the cross” is applied in a sacramental fashion (although it can be applied in other ways as well, but let’s focus on the idea of Baptism as a sacrament which allows for the forgiveness of sins). If God set up a sacrament to initially deal with sin (Baptism) then it makes sense for him to provide a sacrament to deal with post-baptismal sins (Reconciliation).

If the author of the material you cited belongs to a Protestant denomination that rejects the importance of water baptism (claiming that all one needs to do is recite the Sinner’s Prayer or some such in order to receive forgiveness of sins) then there are plenty of other Protestants who would debate them over this. So his issue would not be simply be with Catholic theology but the theology of lots of other Protestant denominations as well.

(Continued in my next post)

 

[EricFilmer]

(Continued…)

The “first pope’s” example In the book of Acts, a man named Simon came to the alleged first pope,
Peter, wanting to buy the power of the Holy Spirit. How did Peter
respond to this sin? Did he suggest that Simon make a confession to
him right there? No, Peter told him to repent and confess his sin to God
and ask God to forgive him. (See Acts 8:18-22).

Compare this person’s comments with the full passage from Acts:

First of all, we read about Simon the Magician starting in Acts 8:9. We are told that he was inspired by the example of Philip to be baptized (Acts 8:13). Then he witnessed the Holy Spirit being conferred upon people through the hands of the Apostles (Acts 8:14-17). And now let us read what follows in its totality…

[18] Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,
[19] saying, “Give me also this power, that any one on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”
[20] But Peter said to him, “Your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
[21] You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.
[22] Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you.
[23] For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
[24] And Simon answered, “Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.” (Acts 8:18-24, RSV)

Notice how Peter tells Simon the Magician to repent, but the event ends with Simon asking Peter to pray to the Lord on his behalf. This entire passage can easily be interpreted as an example of sacramental confession. Peter tells Simon to repent and pray to the Lord, and then Simon asks Peter to pray on his behalf. The same basic process happens today in the confessional: the penitent repents (confession), prays to the Lord (act of contrition) and then the priest prays on his behalf (absolution).

As a side note, is it not pretty funny that this person decided to quote the passages about Peter and Simon the Magician, but then leave out verse 24?

I admit that someone else could interpret this event from Acts in a non-sacramental way, but if the New Testament is actually teaching us to go directly to God for the forgiveness of our sins without the participation of the Apostles, then why didn’t Luke point this out when he wrote the Acts of the Apostles? In other words, why does it simply end with Simon asking for Peter’s mediation (“Pray for me to the Lord…”)? Notice that Peter does not respond with something like, “You should pray directly to God for the forgiveness of your sins, and not through me.”

Can priests forgive sins? The second part of this doctrine suggests that Catholic priests have the
power to forgive sins: “Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the
authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ.” Pg. 374, #1495 (See also Pg. 364 #1448 ) Here, too, Catholic doctrine opposes God’s Word: "Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only

?" Mark 2:7

I encourage you to read this passage from Mark in its fuller context. Basically, the author of the material you posted was quoting people who were accusing Jesus of blasphemy because he claimed to have the power to forgive sins. So do we really want to base our Christian doctrines on the comments of people who rejected Jesus???

(Continued in my next post)

 

[EricFilmer]

(Continued…)

Catholicism teaches that the priest is a mediator between God and
man. (See Pg. 365, #1456). But the Bible recognizes only one
mediator: “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
man Christ Jesus;” 1 Timothy 2:5

Does this mean that Christians on earth are not allowed to participate in Christ’s mission to mediate between the Father and humanity? Let’s put it to the test…

1. Is the statement, “There is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus” part of the Father’s revelation to humanity? Yes, because it is found within Sacred Scripture (all Christians would agree on this point).
2. Who did the Father use to give this revelation to us? St. Paul (after all, this verse comes from his First Letter to Timothy).
3. Therefore, the Father used St. Paul as a mediator to mediate the message that Christ is the one mediator. In fact, the entire Bible represents various people acting as mediators, so even though Christ is the essential, one mediator between the Father and humanity, Christians are expected and empowered by God to participate in this mission of mediation.

Once again, the Catechism admits that these are not instructions from
God, but traditions of men: “The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as the second plank
[of salvation]…” Pg. 363 #1446 More bondage “According to the Church’s command, ‘after having attained the age of
discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to
confess serious sins at least once a year.’” Pg. 365, #1457 (Emphasis
author’s) There is that word “bound” again. The Church Fathers created another
tradition which keeps people in bondage to the Catholic church. What a powerful weapon to use against Catholics around the world.

Actually this is one of the Precepts of the Church, which represent the bare minimum that a person should be doing in order to be considered a practicing Catholic. Every Protestant denomination likewise has some set of instructions concerning what they say is the bare minimum a Christian ought to be doing. For example, some Protestants say that the recitation of the Sinner’s Prayer, and yet the Sinner’s Prayer is not actually directly presented in the Bible. If a Protestant wants to give a biblical argument in favor of the Sinner’s Prayer then note that I have likewise (in this thread) made a biblical argument in favor of sacramental confession. But the author in question acts as if his biblical arguments, his personal interpretation of Scripture, is infallible, because he presumes that his is the standard by which all Christian beliefs are to be judged. As far as he’s concerned, his interpretation of the Bible is “God’s own” and the Catholic interpretation of the Bible is “man-made tradition designed to keep people in bondage.” I have met many such people who openly admit that they are not infallible, but then act as if they think they are. The material you posted is a clear example of this.

In essence, this doctrine says that if you leave the Catholic church, you
will not be able to obtain forgiveness for your sins, which means you
won’t go to heaven.

See my above comments concerning what the Catholic Church teaches about the remission of sins.

Please remember, none of this came from God! These are all man-made threats.

1. In other words, if someone has an interpretation of the Bible that does not meet with his approval, then such an interpretation does not “come from God” and is a “man-made threat.” Maybe this guy should go ahead and get his own papal tiara and start issuing his own papal bulls explaining why all Christians need to adhere to his own personal interpretation of Scripture.
2. This person’s negative comments concerning Tradition show him to be an adherent of Sola Scripture. But Sola Scriptura is itself a man-made doctrine and not an authentic part of God’s revelation. If he disagrees then he needs to first prove the validity of Sola Scriptura before presuming that it is an authentic means for making judgmental comments about Catholic doctrine. As a side note, I’ve heard just about every argument under the sun in which people try to prove that Sola Scriptura is valid and none of them work.

(Continued in my next post)

 

[EricFilmer]

(Continued…)

May God open your spiritual eyes and give you understanding,
so that you may see the depth of the bondage this religion holds you
in. May God show you that you don’t have to be held captive to this
religion any longer.

“This” religion??? Yet again we see a Protestant writer who seems oblivious in matters of Christian history, because he sees the Sacrament of Reconciliation as simply a Catholic phenomenon. What he doesn’t understand is that, in addition to the Roman Catholic Church, there has been (since antiquity) various Eastern Orthodox Churches and various Oriental Orthodox Churches, all of which have historically taught and practiced sacramental confession involving a priest. So those who accuse Catholics of creating confession as a man-made tradition need to explain how the ancient Catholics managed to get all the other patriarchal churches spread out over three continents to go along with it.

Jesus Christ wants to set you free. Conclusion Millions of faithful Catholics blindly file into confessional booths,
believing that the priest has the power to forgive their sins. What about you? Where will you go to have your sins forgiven? To a
sinful priest, as the man-made traditions of the Catholic church
demand? Or will you go straight to God Almighty, as the Bible teaches? “Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. Lord, hear my voice:
let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. If thou,
LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? But there is
forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.” Psalm 130:1-4

MAJOR problem with this theology: he is saying that, in order to have our sins forgiven we simply need to do what the Psalmist did in Psalm 130 (and cry out to the Lord for our forgiveness). But this was written centuries before the birth of Christ. So if this is all it takes, why did Jesus have to be born as one of us and then suffer and die for our sins?

The forgiveness of sins comes via the grace won for us through the sacrifice of Christ. God applies this grace to us through both sacramental means and non-sacramental means. All these means are good, but they are not equal to one another. Sacraments are the most powerful means by which God provides grace because they come with certain guarantees concerning their efficacy. For example, God can forgive mortal sin through perfect contrition displayed outside of a sacrament, but it is hard for a person to gauge whether or not he has perfect contrition. Perfect contrition, however, is not needed to receive the grace of reconciliation channeled through Baptism, nor is it needed for the grace of reconciliation channeled through sacramental confession.

 

[eva77]

thanks to everyone.

Contrary to what some think here that i didnt/couldn’t defend my faith. I sure did. But am not an authority on the church and its teachings,I believe not for what i see but for what i know without the need to be convinced,I read the bible,yes,but I don’t memorise verses for future ‘‘blastings’’.

I didnt want to,but finally gave them my usual ‘‘where do you think the ‘‘bible’’ came from?’’ of course they don’t know,or deny knowing. And a whole lot of other tidbits.anyway being as i tend to avoid religion arguments,thats the main reason why i didnt answer them explicitly,because if i do so,they’ll begin to doubt christianity as a whole(its happend before).
So i needed another’s veiw on it, and thanks to all who answered, quite educating.

 

[Pitcharan]

Come on people i need an answer to blast this guy right off his high horse. Maybe i posted this in the wrong sectionshrugs.

Even the best answer supported by crystal clear Bible quote, is bound to be countered with apparently contradictory quote. The best proof of the correctness of the sacrament of reconciliation is when we partake of it.

One must experience the peace after receiving absolution, that surpasses human understanding. No amount of explanation can match the experience

 

[eva77]

(Continued…)

“This” religion??? Yet again we see a Protestant writer who seems oblivious in matters of Christian history, because he sees the Sacrament of Reconciliation as simply a Catholic phenomenon. What he doesn’t understand is that, in addition to the Roman Catholic Church, there has been (since antiquity) various Eastern Orthodox Churches and various Oriental Orthodox Churches, all of which have historically taught and practiced sacramental confession involving a priest. So those who accuse Catholics of creating confession as a man-made tradition need to explain how the ancient Catholics managed to get all the other patriarchal churches spread out over three continents to go along with it.

MAJOR problem with this theology: he is saying that, in order to have our sins forgiven we simply need to do what the Psalmist did in Psalm 130 (and cry out to the Lord for our forgiveness). But this was written centuries before the birth of Christ. So if this is all it takes, why did Jesus have to be born as one of us and then suffer and die for our sins?

The forgiveness of sins comes via the grace won for us through the sacrifice of Christ. God applies this grace to us through both sacramental means and non-sacramental means. All these means are good, but they are not equal to one another. Sacraments are the most powerful means by which God provides grace because they come with certain guarantees concerning their efficacy. For example, God can forgive mortal sin through perfect contrition displayed outside of a sacrament, but it is hard for a person to gauge whether or not he has perfect contrition. Perfect contrition, however, is not needed to receive the grace of reconciliation channeled through Baptism, nor is it needed for the grace of reconciliation channeled through sacramental confession.

oh…this just sums it up.thanks a million,for all your explanations. I don’t think they deserve it so,am selfishly thinking am going to keep it all to myself. Okay,i’ll share.

 

[eva77]

One must experience the peace after receiving absolution, that surpasses human understanding. No amount of explanation can match the experience

my very thoughts exactly.

 

[Rabbity]

I’m just a non-believer up here in the cheap seats, but my understanding of the catholic religion (and orthodox, early christianity, etc.) is that it’s a corporate religion. You’re not only responsible to your god but to the other people in your congregation/church community. That’s what people were risking their lives to meet for during the very early days - not to just talk and think about their god (you can stay home and do that) - but to participate in things like communion and confession.

Confessing your sins is part of that corporate responsibility; you’re declaring a sin or a fault to a representative of that community (priest) and are publicly declaring a wish to fix it. Likewise the priest is acting on his corporate responsibility by telling you how to put things right. Catholicism is a community effort.

To leave the confession to just yourself and your god can lead to a sort of spiritual isolation.

Do I have that right?

 

[InternetWoman]

I’m just a non-believer up here in the cheap seats, but my understanding of the catholic religion (and orthodox, early christianity, etc.) is that it’s a corporate religion. You’re not only responsible to your god but to the other people in your congregation/church community. That’s what people were risking their lives to meet for during the very early days - not to just talk and think about their god (you can stay home and do that) - but to participate in things like communion and confession.

Confessing your sins is part of that corporate responsibility; you’re declaring a sin or a fault to a representative of that community (priest) and are publicly declaring a wish to fix it. Likewise the priest is acting on his corporate responsibility by telling you how to put things right. Catholicism is a community effort.

To leave the confession to just yourself and your god can lead to a sort of spiritual isolation.

Do I have that right?

Wow Rabbity! I’m blown away. What great perception!

 

[Rabbity]

curtseys thanks!

I just remembered a sermon I heard while I observed a service at a Greek orthodox church. It basically boiled down to: “the ancients risked their lives for communion, you modern people can get up a little earlier to get here on time!” I think the priest was getting grumpy because the pews wouldn’t be full until half of the service was over. Poor fella.