Confirmation DENIED

[Helen31]

Yea I don’t know. The last time I went to confession, the very next day before I even had a chance to have a moment of impure thoughts, words or deeds, I had a near death experience or something like that. (should probabally be in a new post or something)
You see I was sitting at my desk at work, just another boring day at the LONELY office, and I got hungry for a snack. So I had some triscuts (I love triscuts). Anyway I forgot I was out of coffee, and the last one got lodged in my throat. It didn’t hurt a bit, but I couldn’t swallow my saliva, and I had no clue what was going on till I tried to inhale, and no air was getting in. So I tried to exhale, and no air was getting out. So I thought to myself, I must be choaking what do I do? I’ve known first aid/ cpr /heimlich my entire life but never had to use it, and now I’m the one that needs it.
I finally got up from my chair and tried to do it to myself, but it didn’t work. I felt so alone, but a great song came on the radio, I forgot what it was because I was trying to figure out what to do. Anyways I knew the Lord was incontrol of all my worldly affairs (meaning my son would be fine if it was my time to go.) And I just got a really wonderful feeling, like such a warm and loving feeling penetrating heart and enveloping my soul. As soon as I felt that, I looked out the window of my second story office and saw a floor of clouds and just as soon as I saw it, it was like I was walking on those same clouds. I just got this feeling (practically knowing) that if I waited just a second or two longer it was going to be irrestiable. But I’ve got a job at hand. So I started harrassing my work buddy for help, she said I was turning blue and she couldn’t figure out what was wrong with me, and instead of giving her the international choking sign, I showed her how to do the heimlich manover and pointed to my neck. Thank God she was there!! After the triscut was dislodged I sat there regaining my breath and what comes on the radio? Gun’s & Roses “Knocking on Heaven’s Door”. Coincidence? Sure I’ll go with that. But what comes on the radio after that? Queen’s “Another one Bites the Dust.” I just said this is just too much, and I went home and called it day.
But what’s that got to do with confirmation? It’s on my bucket list. I was baptised a Roman Catholic, and raised one (although not a good one). We’re supposed to do the sacraments one at a time, just like my brothers and my sister.

 

[aemcpa]

To the OP:

What are the effects of Confirmation?

 

[Jennifoo]

I have a hard time believing that four different priest told you that you don’t need the sacrament of confirmation.

Something is just not adding up here at all…

I agree. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

 

[Helen31]

I thought confirmation was supposed to seal your baptismal grace, more firmly root your soul to Christ and the Church, strengthen the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and maybe give you some additional grace? I know you’re supposed be obliged to spread and defend your faith more, which I kinda do already, but I’m a special kinda stupid so I’m not the most effective.

 

[aemcpa]

I thought confirmation was supposed to seal your baptismal grace, more firmly root your soul to Christ and the Church, strengthen the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and maybe give you some additional grace? I know you’re supposed be obliged to spread and defend your faith more, which I kinda do already, but I’m a special kinda stupid so I’m not the most effective.

Who in the world is denying you confirmation?

Like I said, if you can’t get a straight answer from your pastor tomorrow, call your bishop.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

** I’ve been told by 4 different priests in two different diocese that I don’t need the sacrament of confirmation, and the classes won’t benefit me. Which your priest has to allow you to take the class in this area, or believe me I’d be there.** According to each one of these priests, I should be looking to marry, and I haven’t met anyone yet.

Ok, I’m with the others that this doesn’t add up. Except that I live in a diocese where there are a lot of Catholics who don’t really care about the teaching of the church, and who have very little respect for the sacraments, as well as very little respect for the value of remaining Catholic. Unfortunately, I could come up with more than 4 priests who would probably give you such advice, and I know that the diocese to my west and the diocese to my east are the same way. It’s sad but true - you can’t just pick any priest out of a hat nowadays, and be certain that he is going to give you correct advice. I believe that to be changing, but for now, you’ve got to be savvy about where you seek advice.

What doesn’t add up is that the whole purpose of the priesthood is to bring the sacraments to the people. There is no reason why a faithful Catholic priest shouldn’t hope that all Catholics receive all of the sacraments they are eligible for. Confirmation is absolutely an important sacrament, and if someone told me I didn’t need confirmation, I would suspect that either:
—they didn’t understand what I was asking or understand my situation
—they believe that there is a more urgent faith-related matter that I must address first and are communicating it poorly
—or they simply don’t have the appropriate level of respect for the sacrament and I should not seek any more spiritual advice from them.

If the first 2 conditions are definitely not the case, then I would say that you might be in the unique situation of having been to exactly the wrong 4 priests. If I have any contacts that could help in this way, I might ask who the “conservative” churches are (not the right word, but people will know what you mean). I would get on the diocesan website, and look up the different parishes. I would find a parish that has perpetual adoration, and that has frequent confession times, or a Latin Mass. You are more likely to find someone who understands the need for the sacraments in that way. Or as others have said, go to the bishop, and get this figured out.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

I want to phrase this carefully because I don’t want to be disrespectful to any priests, but it sounds as though they may have lost sight of the fact that Confirmation is a sacrament that bestows sanctifying grace.

It’s understandable that we have so often tied catechesis into preparation for the sacrament as a way of getting this to the children (though we then often give very poor catechesis, defeating the purpose), but none of this is all that important for Confirmation itself. Heck, the Eastern Catholics give the sacrament to infants. Whatever policies we put in place for parish teenagers to try and get them to sit down for lessons, by the time someone is an adult if they have still not been confirmed and seek it out we shouldn’t place any unnecessary obstacles in their way or make them feel as though receiving the sacrament is not important.

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Regarding reconciliation, I wouldn’t deny myself one sacrament just because I feel I’m being unjustly denied another. Be as faithful a Catholic as you can and take advantage of the opportunities the Church does give you, while you work on finding a priest who will take the time to confirm you or get the bishop to confirm you.

 

[Brigid34]

"I am beinging to suspect that your attitude towards the sacrament might have had something to do with you being denied… " It may be a current barrier, yes. At that point in time I was really considering “the vocation.” But hindsight is 50/50. Marriage and children never crossed my mind until the past 10 years or so. Maybe you missed my previous post.** I’ve been told by 4 different priests in two different diocese that I don’t need the sacrament of confirmation, and the classes won’t benefit me. Which your priest has to allow you to take the class in this area, or believe me I’d be there.** According to each one of these priests, I should be looking to marry, and I haven’t met anyone yet.

The sacraments of initiation build on each other but not all the sacraments are those of initiation, so the sacrament of reconciliation (which is NOT a sacrament of initiation) has nothing to do with confirmation. It is a necessary sacrament whether you are confirmed or not.

Could be those priests who said that confirmation wasn’t necessary meant that it is not a sacrament that is needed unless you want it. It gives sanctifying grace so many want that but a Catholic is not required to have it unless they want it.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

The sacraments of initiation build on each other but not all the sacraments are those of initiation, so the sacrament of reconciliation (which is NOT a sacrament of initiation) has nothing to do with confirmation. It is a necessary sacrament whether you are confirmed or not.

Could be those priests who said that confirmation wasn’t necessary meant that it is not a sacrament that is needed unless you want it. It gives sanctifying grace so many want that but a Catholic is not required to have it unless they want it.

Even so, while it may be true that one can remain unconfirmed and not be “out of the graces of the Church”, it is misleading to say that you don’t need to have it unless you want it. Confirmation is not the sort of sacrament that is only offered to those Catholics who at some point decide they want it. There is an expectation that a Catholic will become fully initiated into the Church, and thus become confirmed. In fact, it continues to be acceptable to confirm young children who are not likely or able to make a mature decision about what they “want.” It may not be required in the same way that confession of mortal sins is required, but it sure isn’t optional. If you have not received the sacrament of confirmation, your initiation is not complete. “Wanting it” comes into play in the sense that a person can not get confirmed against their will, or it comes into play when an adult chooses to complete the process that was never finished in the past. In this case, the priests seem to be discouraging her from receiving the sacrament even though she clearly wants it.

 

[PJM]

=Helen31;10689369]My confirmation was denied many years ago, and it’s been bugging me ever since. No one ever told me why I was denied. I was very involved with the church at time, but I had a hard time with my academics and a couple of close family members were in the hospital, and so I know I missed a few classes. Can you really be denied just like that? Our DRE didn’t even call me to see what was going on or if I could make up the classes. I feel kinda burned, like after getting the church youth group together and being active in the music ministry, it was like no one even noticed me missing till confirmation time came up and I was denied. My mom reassured me and said I could go back and get it later, and it wasn’t going to be a big problem until it was time for marriage (which Holy Matrimony never crossed my mind). Now, many years later, I feel like a got a permenant “incomplete” in sacramental life, as all the priests I know of or have talked to about it say I don’t need it. Anyways, I’m currently exercising my right to conscience objection to the sacrament of reconciliation, until I can figure out how to get confirmed, or until one of the priests can just break it down real “barney style” (no big words) for me as to why I wouldn’t need it.
I don’t know, I’m just lost and confused. I know my priests will marry me to a Muslim, or an atheist, so confirmation isn’t for marriage. Can someone please help me?

WOW:

You want advice. here it is. I’m a trianed, expereiced Teacher of our Catholic Faith.

1. There is no such thing as a “Conscientious objection” to Any sacrament. The Church does not recogonize such and more importantly, neither does God. So GET TO CONFESSION.
2. Confirmation is extremely inmportant but NOT “critical” to ones salvation. It’s Fruits are enhanced Gifts of the Holy Spirit; a VERY Good thing. And it assist one in Proclaiming and Defending our Faith. In order to do either effectively one MUST know well what we believe and WHY we believe it. One “cannot share what ones does not have.”
3. Bypass the DRE and CALL the rectory and set AN APPOINTMENT up to discusss this with your priest or pastor.
4. The sacrament of Confirmation is not a prerequisite for marriage within the Church [as far as I know]. That too can be discussed with the priest.
5. No benefit exist for you; God; the Church or others who know you in just ignoring the issue. So you are to be congradulated for this effeort to seek advice. BUT NOW the next step is UP TO YOU:thumbsup:
6. When you sprak with a priest; TRY to do so without complaining. Just state the facts and ask what needs to done to correct the issue.

PRAY much and get to Confession.

God Bless you,
Pat/PJM

 

[aemcpa]

1. The sacrament of Confirmation is not a prerequisite for marriage within the Church [as far as I know]. That too can be discussed with the priest.

Can. 1065 §1. Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before they are admitted to marriage if it can be done without grave inconvenience.

 

[LilyM]

Can. 1065 §1. Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before they are admitted to marriage if it can be done without grave inconvenience.

Huh - so even if the priests all to a man think the most important thing for the OP is to get married, really she should receive confirmation beforehand anyway! Hard to believe all four are ignorant of this particular canon.

 

[PJM]

=aemcpa;10698086]Can. 1065 §1. Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before they are admitted to marriage if it can be done without grave inconvenience.

THANK YOU,

I’m not surprised and was too lazy to look it up:blush: I had a difficult day.

 

[babochka]

Can. 1065 §1. Catholics who have not yet received the sacrament of confirmation are to receive it before they are admitted to marriage if it can be done without grave inconvenience.

But what is considered grave inconvenience? The way things are set up in many dioceses, candidates for confirmation are (inappropriately) required to complete RCIA in order to receive confirmation. Is it a grave inconvenience to ask an engaged couple to wait a year or more in order to confer the sacrament of confirmation? I think so.

 

[PJM]

=babochka;10702138]But what is considered grave inconvenience? The way things are set up in many dioceses, candidates for confirmation are (inappropriately) required to complete RCIA in order to receive confirmation. Is it a grave inconvenience to ask an engaged couple to wait a year or more in order to confer the sacrament of confirmation? I think so.

STOP! Hold that thought:bigyikes:

My friend; you could not possibly be more wrong in your Assessment

The purpose of Confirmation [the goal might be a more apt term] is to direct the Confirmed to Proclaim and Defend our Catholic Faith. They can do neither without first KNOWING what we believe and WHY we can believe it.

Confirmation is FAR more than a mandated ritual; it’s a Sacrmanrt! a source of grace.

Father Hardon often shared “that WE can’t share what we ourselves don’t have.” AMEN!

IMO I don’t see how anyone can practice the Fruits of Confirmation; the Theological Virtues of Faith; Hope and Love as Christ demands; wihout Really knowing Christ and what He taught.

A SOUL is worth a GREAT Inconvence!

GOD FIRST; always and everytime; everywhere.

 

[babochka]

STOP! Hold that thought:bigyikes:

My friend; you could not possibly be more wrong in your Assessment

The purpose of Confirmation [the goal might be a more apt term] is to direct the Confirmed to Proclaim and Defend our Catholic Faith. They can do neither without first KNOWING what we believe and WHY we can believe it.

Confirmation is FAR more than a mandated ritual; it’s a Sacrmanrt! a source of grace.

Father Hardon often shared “that WE can’t share what we ourselves don’t have.” AMEN!

IMO I don’t see how anyone can practice the Fruits of Confirmation; the Theological Virtues of Faith; Hope and Love as Christ demands; wihout Really knowing Christ and what He taught.

A SOUL is worth a GREAT Inconvence!

GOD FIRST; always and everytime; everywhere.

I think you misunderstand my point. RCIA is to prepare and welcome new members into the church through the sacraments of baptism, confirmation and Holy Communion. A person who is already a member of the Catholic church and has received baptism and Holy Communion is not appropriately placed in an RCIA class. Certainly, preparation is necessary for this class, but there is no reason to require a baptized and practicing Catholic to complete a 1-2 year RCIA program in order to receive the confirmation. A different approach can and should be taken with Catholic candidates for confirmation.

I wholeheartedly believe that every Catholic should receive Confirmation, the earlier the better. As a Byzantine Catholic, I believe the sacrament ought to be conferred at baptism, but I completely respect the discipline of the Latin church that normally requires the use of reason to receive Confirmation.

My point is that asking somebody to wait 1-2 years to get married, so that a practicing and at least partially catechized Catholic can go through RCIA is unreasonable. Couldn’t that person be prepared for Confirmation during or in addtion to marriage preparation, and then be confirmed prior to the wedding? But, in the current system in most parishes, Catholic candidates for Confirmation are sent through RCIA.

Thank you for replying and showing me how my statement lacked clarity. All Catholics should be confirmed at the proper time, according to the practice of their own church/rite. To sum up my thoughts on the subject: Those receiving the sacrament should be prepared so that they have a level of understanding appropriate to the age at which they are receiving the sacrament. They should certainly receive the sacrament of confirmation prior to marriage. The church teaches that this should be done unless it would cause grave inconvenience. Parish structures should not be set up so that it is a grave inconvenience for practicing Catholics to receive the sacrament in a timely manner, following appropriate instruction.

edit: To add official source for my opinion

This is regarding protestants who have been baptized and catechized in their own churches. If they don’t need to undergo the same process as catechumens, certainly practicing Catholics do not.

The United States National Statutes for the Catechumenate state:
Those who have already been baptized in another Church or ecclesial community should not be treated as catechumens or so designated…. Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate (30-31).

 

[PJM]

=babochka;10702738]I think you misunderstand my point. RCIA is to prepare and welcome new members into the church through the sacraments of baptism, confirmation and Holy Communion. A person who is already a member of the Catholic church and has received baptism and Holy Communion is not appropriately placed in an RCIA class. Certainly, preparation is necessary for this class, but there is no reason to require a baptized and practicing Catholic to complete a 1-2 year RCIA program in order to receive the confirmation. A different approach can and should be taken with Catholic candidates for confirmation.

I wholeheartedly believe that every Catholic should receive Confirmation, the earlier the better. As a Byzantine Catholic, I believe the sacrament ought to be conferred at baptism, but I completely respect the discipline of the Latin church that normally requires the use of reason to receive Confirmation.

My point is that asking somebody to wait 1-2 years to get married, so that a practicing and at least partially catechized Catholic can go through RCIA is unreasonable. Couldn’t that person be prepared for Confirmation during or in addtion to marriage preparation, and then be confirmed prior to the wedding? But, in the current system in most parishes, Catholic candidates for Confirmation are sent through RCIA.

Thank you for replying and showing me how my statement lacked clarity. All Catholics should be confirmed at the proper time, according to the practice of their own church/rite. To sum up my thoughts on the subject: Those receiving the sacrament should be prepared so that they have a level of understanding appropriate to the age at which they are receiving the sacrament. They should certainly receive the sacrament of confirmation prior to marriage. The church teaches that this should be done unless it would cause grave inconvenience. Parish structures should not be set up so that it is a grave inconvenience for practicing Catholics to receive the sacrament in a timely manner, following appropriate instruction.

edit: To add official source for my opinion

This is regarding protestants who have been baptized and catechized in their own churches. If they don’t need to undergo the same process as catechumens, certainly practicing Catholics do not.

The United States National Statutes for the Catechumenate state:
Those who have already been baptized in another Church or ecclesial community should not be treated as catechumens or so designated…. Those baptized persons who have lived as Christians and need only instruction in the Catholic tradition and a degree of probation within the Catholic community should not be asked to undergo a full program parallel to the catechumenate (30-31).

Well done. Thank you,

I respectfully disagree, but your thoughful answer has merit. This is a call for the priest [Pastor] to amke. Very likely he has information we do not have.

It is the GREAT and obvious inconvience that makes me rather sure of that. A second consideration may well be that this COUPLE is not ready for a true marriage committment?

Thanks again for your kind response.

 

[babochka]

Well done. Thank you,

I respectfully disagree, but your thoughful answer has merit. This is a call for the priest [Pastor] to amke. Very likely he has information we do not have.

It is the GREAT and obvious inconvience that makes me rather sure of that. A second consideration may well be that this COUPLE is not ready for a true marriage committment?

Thanks again for your kind response.

I actually have a problem with the term “grave inconvenience” at all. It is quite vague and relative. If a man is used to carrying a cell phone with him at all times, it can be inconvenient to use a corded landline phone that requires him to stay in one place, more so to borrow a phone from a neighbor, and gravely inconvenient to travel to a store to use a phone. On the other hand, if a man lives in a remote village and only one building in the village has phone service, he would probably consider it only a minor inconvenience to travel to the store to use the phone. You’re right, in that it comes down to a prudential judgement on the part of the priest. I imagine they are given some guidance as to how to determine grave inconvenience. In my limited experience, the priest has not required an uncomfirmed person to receive the sacrament before the wedding. It is viewed as a simple matter, such as a disparity of cult dispensation. Neither situation should be taken lightly, yet they are.

 

[PJM]

=babochka;10706117]I actually have a problem with the term “grave inconvenience” at all. It is quite vague and relative. If a man is used to carrying a cell phone with him at all times, it can be inconvenient to use a corded landline phone that requires him to stay in one place, more so to borrow a phone from a neighbor, and gravely inconvenient to travel to a store to use a phone. On the other hand, if a man lives in a remote village and only one building in the village has phone service, he would probably consider it only a minor inconvenience to travel to the store to use the phone. You’re right, in that it comes down to a prudential judgement on the part of the priest. I imagine they are given some guidance as to how to determine grave inconvenience. In my limited experience, the priest has not required an uncomfirmed person to receive the sacrament before the wedding. It is viewed as a simple matter, such as a disparity of cult dispensation. Neither situation should be taken lightly, yet they are.

Thanks!

Continued Blessings
Pat /PJM