Confirmation requirements

[tafan]

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As shucks. Thank you HD.
I know you love your kids more than life itself.
I’m sure they are getting a good education at the hands of their parents. :tiphat:***

But your situation is rare. Most parents have no clue what the Church teaches about anything, and they certainly don’t favor the restored order because “the kids need grace”.
You get grace from Eucharist too. But if they don’t come to Mass or Confession…???
I have yet to hear any parent claim that they desire GRACE for their children. They want that certificate, they want to know how many classes can they miss, and they want to know when they can be officially DONE with church.
yup. That’s the prevailing sentiment. People have to remember that CAF is a sort of hothouse for people of faith. It’s not like CAF in the offline world. :nope:

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. of course that’s the one ailing sentiment among the parents, that’s how the whole program is structured and expkained: do x, y , and z and we will confirm your child. So parent s want to understand x, y, and z. . Don’t blame the parents for what the local church created.
2. parents may not be thinking about the grace, but the people designing the program dang well out to be. And they should realize the price the kids pay for their program, ie the lack of those graces for years.

 

[pianistclare]

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. of course that’s the one ailing sentiment among the parents, that’s how the whole program is structured and expkained: do x, y , and z and we will confirm your child. So parent s want to understand x, y, and z. . Don’t blame the parents for what the local church created.
2. parents may not be thinking about the grace, but the people designing the program dang well out to be. And they should realize the price the kids pay for their program, ie the lack of those graces for years.

You’re not listening to me or to the leaders of the program.

You’re the one ascribing blame, Bishops are trying to solve a very real and common problem.

Go ahead, be angry.
See how far it gets you.

Of course that’s how it’s explained! What’s the other option. We wish you would do this but you really don’t have to, because we’ll roll over if you yell loud enough. How does that serve the growth of your student? Everyone would walk.

No one is refusing to confirm. We’re just asking that kids actually STUDY, actually participate in the life of the church, actually PRAY.

How is that abusive? Asking too much? I wish adults would be as dedicated.

I can’t believe we have to argue this.
All of the things that educators and pastors do are designed to help you raise your kids in the faith. You know better? go ahead. But don’t throw rocks at the catechists.

I’m out.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Using a sacrament as a “education/ teacher trick” seems very wrong to me.

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As shucks. Thank you HD.
I know you love your kids more than life itself.
I’m sure they are getting a good education at the hands of their parents. :tiphat:***

But your situation is rare. Most parents have no clue what the Church teaches about anything, and they certainly don’t favor the restored order because “the kids need grace”.
You get grace from Eucharist too. But if they don’t come to Mass or Confession…???
I have yet to hear any parent claim that they desire GRACE for their children. They want that certificate, they want to know how many classes can they miss, and they want to know when they can be officially DONE with church.
yup. That’s the prevailing sentiment. People have to remember that CAF is a sort of hothouse for people of faith. It’s not like CAF in the offline world. :nope:

Those are good points.
I think the best argument for moving the age of confirmation down to younger years is the argument for grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why we send 15 year olds out in the world today without these things is odd to me. They should have the grace and gifts and armor before the battle!!!

As for the parents. One year, just one year, we attempted to run a parent class alongside the confirmation classes. It was a disaster.
The problem with the parents is huge. Catechisis is low. But (and I know we will disagree on this) we are now at the point where parents who are poorly catechized are the first fruits of the current model iof youth ministry. The inaugural alumni of the life teen Luke programs and it’s worse than ever. The model is flawed.

But here you are, with an opportunity to affect ADULTS and thier knowledge!!!
The future parents! This is where youth ministry really begins, with the adults!

 

[MaryT777]

Those are good points.
**I think the best argument for moving the age of confirmation down to younger years is the argument for grace and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Why we send 15 year olds out in the world today without these things is odd to me. They should have the grace and gifts and armor before the battle!!!

**As for the parents. One year, just one year, we attempted to run a parent class alongside the confirmation classes. It was a disaster.
The problem with the parents is huge. Catechisis is low. But (and I know we will disagree on this) we are now at the point where parents who are poorly catechized are the first fruits of the current model iof youth ministry. The inaugural alumni of the life teen Luke programs and it’s worse than ever. The model is flawed.

But here you are, with an opportunity to affect ADULTS and thier knowledge!!!
The future parents! This is where youth ministry really begins, with the adults!

I agree with your post. Not all Parishes are as blessed with well trained catechists such as Clare. When I taught catechism for 4 years of elementary school the teachers were mostly teens recruited from the college of education from our Local University that received credit for doing so.

There was one meeting where the DRE (who had a Master’s degree) spoke of Church Fathers the entire time and then handed out our books for the kids and the Teacher’s Manual and said everything you need to know is in the manual. That was it besides the training required for safety of the kids, I can’t recall now what it was called.

I especially agree with the bolded part of your post. Well said.

Mary.

 

[punisherthunder]

These retreats can be so-so.

I know of one particular young Catholic lady who has helped lead these, especially when they do the camping retreats. She arranges a lot and instructs the kids, but she told me she’s never been to Confession and she’s 28 years old. She also stated she receives the Eucharist and doesnt’ see anything wrong with this

 

[Blessedwithfive]

Two thoughts come to mind:

1. of course that’s the one ailing sentiment among the parents, that’s how the whole program is structured and expkained: do x, y , and z and we will confirm your child. So parent s want to understand x, y, and z. . Don’t blame the parents for what the local church created.
2. parents may not be thinking about the grace, but the people designing the program dang well out to be. And they should realize the price the kids pay for their program, ie the lack of those graces for years.

I totally agree with both of these points. In number one: The church meant well but remember “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”

And number 2: Even if the parents and the kids do not know about the grace they are going to receive…the sacrament still “works” and grace is given. Even if they forgot to do the report or didn’t do community service. Even if they never attend classes. Grace is the free gift from God given in the sacrament. It is a beautiful thing. It can’t be earned. It has to be given. And the kids need the grace before high school. They really need it right from birth…
And the grace given at Confirmation is different from the grace given in the holy Eucharist or Confession…

 

[babochka]

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As shucks. Thank you HD.
I know you love your kids more than life itself.
I’m sure they are getting a good education at the hands of their parents. :tiphat:***

I think we all wish we had a Clare at our parish. Your combination of knowledge and passion is hard to find. I’m thinking that probably makes your parish exceptional.

But your situation is rare. Most parents have no clue what the Church teaches about anything, and they certainly don’t favor the restored order because “the kids need grace”.
You get grace from Eucharist too. But if they don’t come to Mass or Confession…???
I have yet to hear any parent claim that they desire GRACE for their children. They want that certificate, they want to know how many classes can they miss, and they want to know when they can be officially DONE with church.
yup. That’s the prevailing sentiment. People have to remember that CAF is a sort of hothouse for people of faith. It’s not like CAF in the offline world. :nope:

Thanks for the reminder. I think this is easy to forget. My husband says I live in a Catholic bubble and I have to agree sometimes. Homeschooling can have that affect, as we tend to meet mostly other homeschooling families. Even our parish is unusual. It is a parish that we have to choose to attend. Most of us drive 20-30 minutes or more to get there, passing a number of Catholic churches on the way. That, in and of itself, tends to weed out Catholics without a strong commitment to the faith.

It is a tough job you’ve had all these years, trying to meet the needs of everybody. I’m glad that you’ve been so successful meeting the needs of those teens that you serve.

I’ll keep you in my prayers for your new endeavor.

 

[Sugabee43]

There is a difference. I bet kids are allowed to receive their first communion at the age of reason. You are not delaying the age of first communion in order to keep kids in a faith formation program. Again, there seems to be a definite lack in faith in the efficacy of the sacrament.

I experienced this very thing in my own diocese. My youngest son, whose birthday is in August, was held back a year BEFORE Kindergarten because I knew he needed the emotional maturation to do better in school. As a consequence, he turned 16 right before his Sophomore year in high school- had his driver’s license before anyone else. He WANTED to be in the Confirmation class that fall in our parish, but the absolutely refused because he wasn’t going into 11th grade- their requirement for entrance. I literally BEGGED them, and they still said no; he had to wait another year. I was so angry and disappointed that they would delay a Sacrament simply because he wasn’t in the proper grade level.

It’s that kind of rigidity and refusal to bend - especially with kids (like mine) who have been attending CCE since before Kindergarten faithfully, and attending Mass every Sunday and Holy Day - that creates resentment in families who are trying to do the right thing with their children. I have NO patience for it. Hoosier Daddy is right- they simply want to string the kids along all the way through High School to make sure their rolls don’t drop at 12th grade.

 

[starlady88]

These guidelines come from the Bishop. There isn’t a single parish in our Archdiocese that can waive them. A Pastor has to be able to say, truthfully that they have complied with every directive.

People really get me. On the one hand, let’s lament how the young people don’t come to Mass, don’t receive Sacraments regularly…but oh no! Let’s not actually teach them!

We only ever have about one person every other year who says the requirements are too stiff:
2 years instruction, one year supplemental monthly Confirmation prep classes, 20 hours community service, Mass attendance, Reconciliation during Advent and Lent.
And in each scenario the complaining mom was preferring that her child got his Eagle Scout on a certain time-frame. Great. Do it. Bye.
If boy scouts are more important than your spiritual life…I don’t need to bang my head against the wall to try to teach him.

Our kids LOVE the time they spend prepping. They LOVE serving the homeless, meeting disabled folks, working the soup kitchen. They don’t have any problems with any of it. They bond. They come back to lead the younger kids the following year. I actually have to ask some of them to let the other kids have a chance at service projects that have limited space. I’ve had kids ask to go on the 3 day retreat AGAIN
in the next year after they are confirmed.

People complain mightily that Catholics don’t know their faith.
I guess you’re just supposed to get it by osmosis? Because many of these kids have not been back to church since their First Holy Communion. That’s 7 years in which to forget all your rote prayers, never crack open a Bible and sketchy Mass attendance.

And yeah, the 3 kids that didn’t complete their requirements? They passed their interview with the Pastor, so yes, they are getting confirmed. But they missed out on a real growth experience. Their loss. If all you want is to get your card punched? You can do that. But it doesn’t make it a meaningful experience. That does count for something.

Sounds like you have a great program!

In my home parish, my brothers and I were confirmed in junior year of high school, in the fall. When I went through the program, we had to start in sophomore year to go to monthly meetings, with Confirmation happening at the end of September junior year (or senior year…being in a rural community, the Archbishop only went out every other year). The meetings were basically going through Mark Hart’s Bible study program. And then we had to wrote a brief paper explaining the reasons for choosing our Confirmation saint. That was it. No retreat. No service hours (he did away with the service hours requirement, saying that students shouldn’t have to “work” or “pay” in order to be confirmed). Nothing. Priest assignments changed before my brothers were confirmed, so I’m not sure what they had to do. There were still confirmed their junior year as well. It is interesting because here in the city of Omaha, all the parishes do it in 8th grade…but out in the rural area (same Archdiocese), some parishes do it later.

Quite frankly, I would have liked something more. Even as someone interested in the faith, as a 16-17 year old, I didn’t always enjoy spending an hour or more watching some guy talk after Mass on Sundays. I did a lot of my own personal research (using CAF a lot when I was in high school!).