Confiteor in the New Mass

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I went to an abbey for Mass on Sunday. The brothers had a newsletter that showed examples of some of the changes in the new Mass. A change in the confiteor-“I have greatly sinned…” surprised me. If someone has committed grave sin, they must go to a Rite of Reconcilliation before they can receive the Eucharist. This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
 
Just because you say “I have greatly sinned” in the confiteor doesn’t mean that you are in a state of mortal sin. So, it is not a change in doctrine. But, it is a lot closer to the original latin.

I think it’s going to be good, because currently A LOT of people in the Church receive the Eucharist without going to confession. Granted it’s not like that in some Churches, but it is the case in many parishes.

I’ve heard people say "I really love it when we say that part that goes “only say the word, and I shall be healed”.
And, I think some people chalk it up to just as good as having gone to confession. The new translation will probably lead more people to go to confession, and probably lead more people to not receive because they are not in a state of grace.
 
tlnd said:
I went to an abbey for Mass on Sunday. The brothers had a newsletter that showed examples of some of the changes in the new Mass. A change in the confiteor-“I have greatly sinned…” surprised me. If someone has committed grave sin, they must go to a Rite of Reconcilliation before they can receive the Eucharist. This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
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“grave” seems to be the word the Church is using to describe mortal sin if you look at the CCC and documents.
 
It is the translation from “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”. In English, it should be spoken as “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault”. At least, here in Canada.
 
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. With the Confiteor we acknowledge our sinfulness. I may “greatly sin” without falling into mortal sin by the sheer volume of my venial sins. The Latin I remember from childhood included “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa", “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault.” I can blame nobody for my sins except myself.
Our venial sins are remitted through the Sacrament of the Eucharist. My missal includes prayers by St. Ambrose and St. Thomas Aquinas in preparation for Mass.
St. Ambrose–”…May your body and blood, which I intend to receive, although I am unworthy, be for me the remission of my sins, the washing away of my guilt, the end of my evil thoughts, and the rebirth of my better instincts…"
St. Thomas Aquinas—"…Therefore, I implore you in your boundless mercy, to heal my sickness, cleanse my defilement, enlighten my blindness, enrich my poverty, and clothe my nakedness. Then shall I dare to receive the bread of angels, the King of kings and Lord of lords, with reverence and humility, contrition and love, purity and faith, with the purpose and intention necessary for my soul…"
The final prayer of preparation is adapted from the 4th century Apostolic Constitutions. “…May he strengthen and sanctify us who eat this bread and drink this cup, grant forgiveness of our sins and deliver us from the wiles of the devil…”
 
grasscutter said:
It is the translation from “mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa”. In English, it should be spoken as “through my fault, through my fault, through my most grievous fault”. At least, here in Canada.
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They are two separate parts of the Confiteor.

*"I confess to almighty God
and to you, my brothers and sisters,
that I have **greatly *sinned,
in my thoughts and in my words,
in what I have done and in what I have failed to do,
through my fault, through my fault,
through my most grievous fault;"
 
tlnd said:
I went to an abbey for Mass on Sunday. The brothers had a newsletter that showed examples of some of the changes in the new Mass. A change in the confiteor-“I have greatly sinned…” surprised me. If someone has committed grave sin, they must go to a Rite of Reconcilliation before they can receive the Eucharist. This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
Click to expand...
no such thing, the meaning of the wording remains the same, we are confessing our sinfulness to our brothers and sisters and asking forgiveness from them. No way does the wording past or present indicate absolution for mortal sins. You are reading into something that simply is not there over or implied.

where is the link to Catholic news source required by the forum:

If you want more info on the new English translation of the Roman Missal visit the liturgy forum where there are several ongoing discussions with great links
 
There are two distinct meanings of greatly, one of quantity, the other of magnatude.

Placing the adjective before the noun ‘greatly sinned’ carried the implication of sins of quantity, not necessarily of degree. In other words, multiple sins, but not necessarily sins of magnitude.

On the other hand, placing the adjective after the noun ‘sinned greatly’ would carry the implication of a single sin that are of larger magnitude.
 
"The Confiteor is first found quoted as part of the introduction of the Mass in Bernold of Constance (d. 1100) in the form: “Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, istis Sanctis et omnibus Sanctis et tibi frater, quia peccavi in cogitatione, in locutione, in opere, in pollutione mentis et corporis. Ideo precor te, ora pro me.”

*1962 Confiteor
Confiteor Deo omnipotenti, beatæ Mariæ semper Virgini, beato Michaeli Archangelo, beato Ioanni Baptistæ, sanctis Apostolis Petro et Paulo, omnibus Sanctis, et vobis, fratres: quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, verbo et opere: mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Ideo precor beatam Mariam semper Virginem, beatum Michaelem Archangelum, beatum Ioannem Baptistam, sanctos Apostolos Petrum et Paulum, omnes Sanctos, et vos, fratres, orare pro me ad Dominum Deum nostrum.
*
"The 1962 form of the Confiteor is found in the fourteenth-century “Ordo Romanus XIV” with only a slight modification: “Quia peccavi nimis cogitatione, delectatione, consensu, verbo et opere”

I can’t find the Ordo Romanus XIV by Cajetan but in comparing the Confiteor of Constance and the 1962 version, audience is an element that is considered in the creating the prayer. The present Confiteor in English is a blessing for people that have a burden on their conscience but because of family/work demands cannot attend a Rite of Contrition. The avoidance of “nimis” (exceedingly) in the 1962 Confiteor is purposeful. Many in the Roman Catholic Church see their Church as a Church of sinners. Vatican II attempted to lead the Church beyond concepts that engendered guilt and scrupulosity, toward following Paul’s exhortation in Hebrews 6

NLV 2007

1So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don’t need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds and placing our faith in God. 2You don’t need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

This new Confiteor may be a more literal translation, but is it a better pastoral instrument? I thought there might be a benign motive for the change. Comments and research have led me to see the “New” Mass as the glorification of a particular historical document. If it engages some and leads them to a deeper relationship with our Lord, it is a blessing. If it reinforces a personal conception that one belongs to an orthodox community that is right with God because of ritual, it could be an impediment to spiritual development. Christianity is a religion of orthopraxis, just like Judaism. The Mass is a preparatory activity for developing and maintaining a Christ-like life, everyday of your life.
 
I think it means in general we have greatly sinned. I don’t think it’s referring to the state of a soul at that moment.
 
tlnd said:
I went to an abbey for Mass on Sunday. The brothers had a newsletter that showed examples of some of the changes in the new Mass. A change in the confiteor-“I have greatly sinned…” surprised me. If someone has committed grave sin, they must go to a Rite of Reconcilliation before they can receive the Eucharist. This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
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Actually, there’s no change in the Mass. It’s simply a better translation of the latin prayer that was there all along. It’s not that there’s a new shocking change now, but rather the prayer was translated poorly the first time into english, and people are hearing for the first time what the texts of the Mass have actually said all along.
 
tlnd said:
I went to an abbey for Mass on Sunday. The brothers had a newsletter that showed examples of some of the changes in the new Mass. A change in the confiteor-“I have greatly sinned…” surprised me. If someone has committed grave sin, they must go to a Rite of Reconcilliation before they can receive the Eucharist. This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
Click to expand...
If we all are saying it each week, I don’t think it is supposed to mean that we did something exceptional relative to each other or relative to the last time we said it. It must mean something else, or it doesn’t make sense to all say it together week after week. So it seems highly unlikely to me that it is supposed to mean we have done a mortal sin since last week or last confession.

Myself, I tend to see any sin of ours as egregious, if you look at it from a certain standpoint. We are mere creatures and God is our Creator. That it is God whom we offend enlarges the offense.

But I have no idea what the new words are supposed to mean. I’m only offering you my personal reasonings.
 
Pug said:
If we all are saying it each week, I don’t think it is supposed to mean that we did something exceptional relative to each other or relative to the last time we said it. It must mean something else, or it doesn’t make sense to all say it together week after week. So it seems highly unlikely to me that it is supposed to mean we have done a mortal sin since last week or last confession.

Myself, I tend to see any sin of ours as egregious, if you look at it from a certain standpoint. We are mere creatures and God is our Creator. That it is God whom we offend enlarges the offense.

But I have no idea what the new words are supposed to mean. I’m only offering you my personal reasonings.
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I think you pretty well hit it square on the head. I agree with your explanation.
 
I like the translation of the Confiteor that will be used. I hope it will be used more as a penitential rite option as most churches I have gone to recently haven’t used it but use an invocation with the responses of Lord / Christ Have Mercy or the simple Kyrie in Greek only.

I think it reminds us all we are sinners in some way and need help even if the sins are small or far few.
 
tlnd said:
This change in the Mass appears to indicate a change in doctrine.
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It’s possible. The underlying theology and doctrine (in Latin) remain the same for all Catholics. How they are expressed in different languages and different translations is another matter. But I’m sure you knew that.
 
KCT said:
I think it means in general we have greatly sinned. I don’t think it’s referring to the state of a soul at that moment.
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I don’t think it’s supposed to be saying that we have mortally sinned. That would just be silly. But since God is so infinitely good, every offence is a great offence.
 
It just means that, at some point, we have all greatly sinned. It doesn’t mean we did it yesterday, or since our last confession, or what have you, but at some point.
 
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