Conflicted — Laying on of Hands

[seeker_of_God]

Sorry, I posted a thread about this a few weeks ago, but I am still conflicted about this issue, so would like more information.

When I met my wife, we were both at a charismatic university (Franciscan University of Steubenville). I was just coming into the Catholic Church, and thought I’d try the charismatic thing. I received some “gifts of the Spirit” (I’m still not sure how I feel about this) and my now wife and I prayed over each other regularly.

But over time, I was more attracted to traditional Catholicism, and grew less comfortable with the charismatic. Now, I am nearly completely on the traditional side. This has been very difficult for her, but recently she’s been able to understand a lot more and accept my own position.

But it makes me feel bad, and her, too since she knows I’m not comfortable with it. She loves healing — it’s been almost the center pillar of her life for as long as she can remember. She’s had glaucoma since birth, and growing up, many people prayed over her eyes for healing. She strongly believes God will one day heal her miraculously, and a few people have given her “prophecies” saying as much.

So, a lot of times when she is in a lot of pain, she will ask for me to pray over her (lay hands on her). She asks less now that I am more uncomfortable with it though. Sometimes I pray for her without touching, but she prefers that I touch the spot that is in pain when I pray, and she claims that this helps the most. She says she feels something come through me when this happens. She says it always helps.

I’m extremely skeptical of this. I don’t see why a prayer said at a distance wouldn’t work just as well as one said while touching the pained area. She says that i have a “healing gift” (another thing I’m not quite sure about).

So we’re having trouble balancing this. We both feel bad: me for not feeling comfortable with it and allowing her to be in pain, and her for asking me when I’m not comfortable with it.

I’m very skeptical of the charismatic movement as a whole. I think it has some good elements, but I also think that a lot of it has been really exaggerated. Such as with healing, I think there is often too much of a focus on wanting God to heal us, and we forget to offer up our sufferings in union with Christ’s sufferings as a redemptive act. So, I’m not really sure.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. It’s a point of contention between us, so I don’t know how to resolve our differing spiritual expressions.

 

[Domiy]

I’m not even too sure how much authority or practice regular people (non-priests etc) have in healing through prayers. Prayers are effective in every way, but Healing Masses within the Church are usually conducted by trained, skilled or knowledged people in the field.

I don’t want to get too much into that, I’m sure there are others on here who are deeper within the Church and can comment on that.

Sounds like a silly argument to me though. Go to Church, pray a rosary together in regular fashion, read Scripture, go to Confession and receive Eucharist, and you’ll be fine, both as a couple or individually. If you have some deep concerns then speak to a Catholic priest. But I’l tell you right now rarely would a matter of laying hands or not make a difference to salvation, which is our ultimate goal

God Bless

 

[seeker_of_God]

Sounds like a silly argument to me though. Go to Church, pray a rosary together in regular fashion, read Scripture, go to Confession and receive Eucharist, and you’ll be fine, both as a couple or individually. If you have some deep concerns then speak to a Catholic priest. But I’l tell you right now rarely would a matter of laying hands or not make a difference to salvation, which is our ultimate goal

God Bless

I appreciate your comment.

It may sound silly, but it isn’t to my wife. Like I said, these practices have been a central pillar in her life, so sometimes she takes it as a threat of sorts that I don’t take it in the same way. She’s getting better in this way, but still it is very difficult.

 

[georget]

If it doesn’t go against the teachings of the church, why not do as your wife wishes, if it comforts her. Recently my wife was very sick in the hospital, I was home alone and the house was so empty, and I realized how much I would miss her, and I thought of how much she does for me and how much more I could do for her, and would do for her , if God would send her home to me, which he did, praise His Holy Name. I hope this helps.
God bless you both

 

[po18guy]

Truthfully, it does not matter how you feel about something. What matters, as a Catholic, is if it is revealed truth and if the Church approves of it. The charismatic renewal has come under more scrutiny than nearly any other aspect of the Church in recent times. It is very probably not your cup of tea, spiritually. Yet, it remains a good fit with your wife and thousands of others. It is a much more lively, animated faith. So? Some of the devout Jews in Jerusalem thought that the Apostles were drunk when they were speaking in the Spirit. But look what happened!

If you are not comfortable with it, you have a responsibility to the truth to investigate it. Its origins as a movement, its examination by the Church, its approval. As a part of human nature, a lack of knowledge can lead to discrimination and bigtry. As Catholics, we know this all too well. Would it help to know that the prescher of the Papal household is a charismatic? Here is a link which explains the baptism in the Spirit as well as an article by Fr. Raniero Cantalmessa.

Knowledge is comfort. Please have a look.

 

[RoseMary131]

.

When I met my wife, we were both at a charismatic university (Franciscan University of Steubenville). I was just coming into the Catholic Church, and thought I’d try the charismatic thing. I received some “gifts of the Spirit” (I’m still not sure how I feel about this) and my now wife and I prayed over each other regularly.

So, a lot of times when she is in a lot of pain, she will ask for me to pray over her (lay hands on her). She asks less now that I am more uncomfortable with it though. Sometimes I pray for her without touching, but she prefers that I touch the spot that is in pain when I pray, and she claims that this helps the most. She says she feels something come through me when this happens. She says it always helps.

So we’re having trouble balancing this. We both feel bad: me for not feeling comfortable with it and allowing her to be in pain, and her for asking me when I’m not comfortable with it.

I’m very skeptical of the charismatic movement as a whole. I think it has some good elements, but I also think that a lot of it has been really exaggerated. Such as with healing, I think there is often too much of a focus on wanting God to heal us, and we forget to offer up our sufferings in union with Christ’s sufferings as a redemptive act. So, I’m not really sure.

Is there someone at your former school who you can speak with about you being uncomfortable?

Maybe it would be helpful to speak with two priests from your school, a priest who is part of the charismatic movement and another who is not.

“Such as with healing, I think there is often too much of a focus on wanting God to heal us, and we forget to offer up our sufferings in union with Christ’s sufferings as a redemptive act. - Seeker”

It is perfectly acceptable to want God to heal us. Some people feel called to redemptive suffering, but not everyone. God does not ask us to “not ask for His healing”. God heals through prayer, through medication and life style changes, through many avenues.

Your wife receives a healing through your prayer and through your touch. What a beautiful gift in your marriage.

It is acceptable for a person to want to offer their sufferings in union with Christ’s sufferings, but only if the person feels called by God to do so. Maybe this would be a form of prayer for you in your pains, while your wife seeks healing from God through your prayers and your touch.

Peace.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Truthfully, it does not matter how you feel about something. What matters, as a Catholic, is if it is revealed truth and if the Church approves of it. The charismatic renewal has come under more scrutiny than nearly any other aspect of the Church in recent times. It is very probably not your cup of tea, spiritually. Yet, it remains a good fit with your wife and thousands of others. It is a much more lively, animated faith. So? Some of the devout Jews in Jerusalem thought that the Apostles were drunk when they were speaking in the Spirit. But look what happened!

If you are not comfortable with it, you have a responsibility to the truth to investigate it. Its origins as a movement, its examination by the Church, its approval. As a part of human nature, a lack of knowledge can lead to discrimination and bigtry. As Catholics, we know this all too well. Would it help to know that the prescher of the Papal household is a charismatic? Here is a link which explains the baptism in the Spirit as well as an article by Fr. Raniero Cantalmessa.

Knowledge is comfort. Please have a look.

OH, I know enough about the movement, and I recognize that it was approved by the Church. But I also think that a lot of times it can be taken too far. We had a priest at college who constantly warned people about taking it too far, and about overemphasizing the subjective, emotional aspect. The divorce rate of people who graduated from our school was higher than the average, despite it being a strong Catholic university, for exactly this reason.

I recognize that it is a valid movement, though, and there are some good fruits from it. But from what I’ve seen, there are also some bad ones, just as with anything of course.

Mostly this is about reconciling the way my wife and I practice our faith. It’s something we’ve been struggling with for a while. Sometimes it comes to a head and we are forced to really look at it.

 

[WaitingForJesus]

It might be helpful for you to just think about this a more personal level and not make it about the charismatic movement or healing gifts. Your wife is in pain and she wants you to touch her. She says it helps relieve the pain. It probably does, and that may have nothing to do with healing gifts. How much we feel pain is very much connected to our emotional state. If we are scared or stressed, pain is worse. If you are unwilling to touch her when she is pain, that is going to cause stress. She may worry that you do not love her. Many people are comforted by prayer and touch–not just those who are part of the charismatic movement. Maybe you can avoid making it about that and thinking of it in another light – as an act of love that intended to help her feel better.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I propose a settlement agreement.

a) You let her do her charismatic thing and give her no negative feedback.
b) She doesn’t make you do charismatic things, and respects you have a preference for a different mode of study.

THEN:

C) Get yourself involved in the contemplative practices the Church has to offer, such as contemplative prayer.

For example Lectio Divina. This is something they’ve done for centuries in the monasteries and is a little more dignified than waving arms around and emoting. The CCC says that prayer “should” (2708) progress into a prayer that achieves true union with the prayer of Christ, and contemplative prayer does just that. Notice that the Catechism has more to say about contemplative prayer, than about vocal and meditative alike. If you have never heard of it, you are in for a treat. Because you have within the Catholic tradition, a means to true union, which is what the charismatics are trying to accomplish but theirs is a whole lot different style. Contemplative prayer is silent, and can be done during Eucharistic Adoration for example, which I don’t think you really want to see charismatic prayer and healing in the adoration chapel – trust me because I’ve seen it.

So anyway yeah, let the Holy Spirit inspire each of you toward your own way to become closer to God. But I do highly recommend you try contemplative prayer; if it’s your first exposure you will say, “wow I didn’t know what I was missing.”

Reference CCC 2700-2724

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

I propose a settlement agreement.

a) You let her do her charismatic thing and give her no negative feedback.
b) She doesn’t make you do charismatic things, and respects you have a preference for a different mode of study.

THEN:

C) Get yourself involved in the contemplative practices the Church has to offer, such as contemplative prayer.

For example Lectio Divina. This is something they’ve done for centuries in the monasteries and is a little more dignified than waving arms around and emoting. The CCC says that prayer “should” (2708) progress into a prayer that achieves true union with the prayer of Christ, and contemplative prayer does just that. Notice that the Catechism has more to say about contemplative prayer, than about vocal and meditative alike. If you have never heard of it, you are in for a treat. Because you have within the Catholic tradition, a means to true union, which is what the charismatics are trying to accomplish but theirs is a whole lot different style. Contemplative prayer is silent, and can be done during Eucharistic Adoration for example, which I don’t think you really want to see charismatic prayer and healing in the adoration chapel – trust me because I’ve seen it.

So anyway yeah, let the Holy Spirit inspire each of you toward your own way to become closer to God. But I do highly recommend you try contemplative prayer; if it’s your first exposure you will say, “wow I didn’t know what I was missing.”

Reference CCC 2700-2724

Alan

 

[po18guy]

OH, I know enough about the movement, and I recognize that it was approved by the Church. But I also think that a lot of times it can be taken too far. We had a priest at college who constantly warned people about taking it too far, and about overemphasizing the subjective, emotional aspect. The divorce rate of people who graduated from our school was higher than the average, despite it being a strong Catholic university, for exactly this reason.

I recognize that it is a valid movement, though, and there are some good fruits from it. But from what I’ve seen, there are also some bad ones, just as with anything of course.

Mostly this is about reconciling the way my wife and I practice our faith. It’s something we’ve been struggling with for a while. Sometimes it comes to a head and we are forced to really look at it.

Unless your wife takes it “too far”, why worry? If you sense, or see, that others are taking things too far, pray for them. We need not look for physical solutions when the problem is spiritual. Abusers will be corrected in God’s time. All that we need is patience (Ha!). Certainly, you have heard the term “rad Trads.” Is that not going too far in the opposite direction? Many Catholics would ban the charismatic renewal, and this would be a shame. There is danger when off the path to either side. The Church and her spirituality must be able to encompass every human soul ever created. Consider the amazing variety that this involves. Ever seen a (non-charismatic) mass in Kenya? If that is not the Spirit-filled giving of glory to God, I do not know what is. Is it different from what we expect, or have experienced? Of course.

As to healing, let us remember that forgiveness is healing. Why would Jesus heal if it was not good, or desired by the Father? Healing is not primarily for our good, but for the praise of God. The leper (Luke 17:18), the crippled woman (Luke 13:13), the cripple at the gate of the temple (Acts 3:8-9), all praised God after their healing - thus revealing its purpose.

Your trouble has become personal, and both of you must be comfortable worshipping together. This is where the denial of self and the taking up of one’s cross become all the more important. Spiritual direction is important, and a conversation with your Priest (separately or together), perhaps over dinner, would be entirely appropriate.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Unless your wife takes it “too far”, why worry? If you sense, or see, that others are taking things too far, pray for them. We need not look for physical solutions when the problem is spiritual. Abusers will be corrected in God’s time. All that we need is patience (Ha!). Certainly, you have heard the term “rad Trads.” Is that not going too far in the opposite direction? Many Catholics would ban the charismatic renewal, and this would be a shame. There is danger when off the path to either side. The Church and her spirituality must be able to encompass every human soul ever created. Consider the amazing variety that this involves. Ever seen a (non-charismatic) mass in Kenya? If that is not the Spirit-filled giving of glory to God, I do not know what is. Is it different from what we expect, or have experienced? Of course.

As to healing, let us remember that forgiveness is healing. Why would Jesus heal if it was not good, or desired by the Father? Healing is not primarily for our good, but for the praise of God. The leper (Luke 17:18), the crippled woman (Luke 13:13), the cripple at the gate of the temple (Acts 3:8-9), all praised God after their healing - thus revealing its purpose.

Your trouble has become personal, and both of you must be comfortable worshipping together. This is where the denial of self and the taking up of one’s cross become all the more important. Spiritual direction is important, and a conversation with your Priest (separately or together), perhaps over dinner, would be entirely appropriate.

My problem isn’t if she practices it. My problem is that I feel forced, in a way, to practice it in praying over her.

 

[seeker_of_God]

I propose a settlement agreement.

a) You let her do her charismatic thing and give her no negative feedback.
b) She doesn’t make you do charismatic things, and respects you have a preference for a different mode of study.

THEN:

C) Get yourself involved in the contemplative practices the Church has to offer, such as contemplative prayer.

For example Lectio Divina. This is something they’ve done for centuries in the monasteries and is a little more dignified than waving arms around and emoting. The CCC says that prayer “should” (2708) progress into a prayer that achieves true union with the prayer of Christ, and contemplative prayer does just that. Notice that the Catechism has more to say about contemplative prayer, than about vocal and meditative alike. If you have never heard of it, you are in for a treat. Because you have within the Catholic tradition, a means to true union, which is what the charismatics are trying to accomplish but theirs is a whole lot different style. Contemplative prayer is silent, and can be done during Eucharistic Adoration for example, which I don’t think you really want to see charismatic prayer and healing in the adoration chapel – trust me because I’ve seen it.

So anyway yeah, let the Holy Spirit inspire each of you toward your own way to become closer to God. But I do highly recommend you try contemplative prayer; if it’s your first exposure you will say, “wow I didn’t know what I was missing.”

Reference CCC 2700-2724

Alan

Thanks Alan. I love contemplative prayer.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Thanks Alan. I love contemplative prayer.

Maybe she doesn’t realize that contemplative prayer is just another method of achieving the same openness to God that she is trying to achieve with her form.

Maybe you should challenge her to a contest. You do it your way, she does it her way, and then see who produces more fruit of the spirit.

Alan

 

[danonwaveland]

My wife and I used to be involved with a wonderful Charismatic prayer group, but drifted away many years ago – not because of disagreement or discomfort or anything else, just drifted away. However, I still pray in tongues when I feel called to do so. When my wife has an ache or pain that’s bothering her, she’ll ask me to touch the area of the pain and pray and it always helps. Sometimes, as someone above mentioned, it may just be the touch that is comforting. In any case, it is always helpful to pray.

I would suggest that you pray for her as she asks – laying on of hands. It comforts her and, while it may not be comfortable to you, it is apparently helpful to her and that is what counts. God knows your heart and knows that you are doing this for her. It is not objectionable to the Church and while it may not be your cup of tea, do it for her.

Just my .02 of a dollar. :twocents:

God bless and we’ll pray for you and your wife,
Dan

 

[dshix]

Sorry, I posted a thread about this a few weeks ago, but I am still conflicted about this issue, so would like more information.

When I met my wife, we were both at a charismatic university (Franciscan University of Steubenville). I was just coming into the Catholic Church, and thought I’d try the charismatic thing. I received some “gifts of the Spirit” (I’m still not sure how I feel about this) and my now wife and I prayed over each other regularly.

But over time, I was more attracted to traditional Catholicism, and grew less comfortable with the charismatic. Now, I am nearly completely on the traditional side. This has been very difficult for her, but recently she’s been able to understand a lot more and accept my own position.

But it makes me feel bad, and her, too since she knows I’m not comfortable with it. She loves healing — it’s been almost the center pillar of her life for as long as she can remember. She’s had glaucoma since birth, and growing up, many people prayed over her eyes for healing. She strongly believes God will one day heal her miraculously, and a few people have given her “prophecies” saying as much.

So, a lot of times when she is in a lot of pain, she will ask for me to pray over her (lay hands on her). She asks less now that I am more uncomfortable with it though. Sometimes I pray for her without touching, but she prefers that I touch the spot that is in pain when I pray, and she claims that this helps the most. She says she feels something come through me when this happens. She says it always helps.

I’m extremely skeptical of this. I don’t see why a prayer said at a distance wouldn’t work just as well as one said while touching the pained area. She says that i have a “healing gift” (another thing I’m not quite sure about).

So we’re having trouble balancing this. We both feel bad: me for not feeling comfortable with it and allowing her to be in pain, and her for asking me when I’m not comfortable with it.

I’m very skeptical of the charismatic movement as a whole. I think it has some good elements, but I also think that a lot of it has been really exaggerated. Such as with healing, I think there is often too much of a focus on wanting God to heal us, and we forget to offer up our sufferings in union with Christ’s sufferings as a redemptive act. So, I’m not really sure.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. It’s a point of contention between us, so I don’t know how to resolve our differing spiritual expressions.

I only have one red flag to raise; it is concerning the part of your post which I bolded.

This is a form of superstition. To believe that the prayer itself isn’t what is asking for healing, but the actual touch you give her as you are “healing” her is what is making it better, means that she is considering the act of you touching her as having healing power, instead of any healing she may have coming from the grace of God.

I have nothing against the Charismatic movement. I think it CAN be dangerous if the wrong people use it, but it is mostly just fine. However, in this case, you must encourage your wife not to attribute the benefits of this prayer to the actions you do around them, but to the prayer itself, because the prayer is the focus of the entire act. Touching someone’s head as you pray over them has no harm, but when a person permits it to become a “ritual” or regular practice, it becomes superstitious.

 

[seeker_of_God]

Maybe she doesn’t realize that contemplative prayer is just another method of achieving the same openness to God that she is trying to achieve with her form.

Maybe you should challenge her to a contest. You do it your way, she does it her way, and then see who produces more fruit of the spirit.

Alan

Can you tell me what other forms of contemplative prayer there is besides the Lectio Divina? I’m just curious, and I"m trying ot get deeper into this subject.

 

[Bonnie]

I’m not into the charimatic stuff either, having spent a few years in a pentecostal church. However, laying on of hands does do something. When I’ve been in a lot of pain my husband will sometimes bless me with his hands on my head. It’s never taken away the pain, but it does make me feel better.

Even if you don’t believe, do it out of love.

 

[po18guy]

My problem isn’t if she practices it. My problem is that I feel forced, in a way, to practice it in praying over her.

I would ask Father about it. The odd thing is that you may have the charism of healing and have not realized it. Not unheard of.

 

[seeker_of_God]

I would ask Father about it. The odd thing is that you may have the charism of healing and have not realized it. Not unheard of.

Yes, my wife swears that I do. I do not see it, but she says it 99% of the time takes away the pain when I do. Who knows.