Confront the "other woman"

[gmarie21]

I am sorry if I upset you. It was not my intent at all and I do apologize!
I take it you have never been a “spouse?”
It is difficult for you then to have a vantage point from that perspective.

What I found so concerning in your post is that you set yourself and “your” affair in a different category than other women who cheat with married men as if yours is somehow more justified.
I am not saying you out and out “justified” what you both did - but if you read back over your posts maybe you can see how you minimized it by saying that yours wasn’t ‘typical’ and that his circumstances were just soooo bad that, well, to me it implied some level of justification.
For instance, in your last paragraph, you seem to be saying that he was left with only 2 options. Stay in an unful-filling marriage or cheat/commit adultery. Never did you say that what he should have done is STAY FAITHFUL and do what he is doing now - seek a civil divorce and an annulment. And only then proceed to conduct himself as a single man.

(Honestly, I suspect that what you shared about your own father and how he cheated on your mother, possibly gives insight into you and your situation.)

It is* wonderful* that you are seeking the counsel of priests but it is not my business nor did I even mention your need for repentance and God’s forgiveness. That is between you and God!
I just saw a number of red flags in your posts and thinking, and as a married person, knowing the reality of married life - especially should you end up marrying him - felt someone should not let them slip by.

God Bless you all in your situation. I know He will!

I wasn’t upset. I guess I did a bad job of trying to get my point across. While you are correct that I have never been married, I have witnessed marriages slowly fall apart when one or both spouses (usually both) fail to be as God had intended in major ways (a wife always not being “in the mood” because she’s mad a lot at her husband and thinks he better be an angel before she’ll have relations again, or if a spouse demeans the other spouse infront of EVERYONE all the TIME). Those are things that can eat away at a marriage, and sometime the “offending” spouse never realizes their part in the destruction of the other spouse who finds comfort elsewhere (which is also terribly wrong and is against what God had intended in major ways). As soon as someone has an affair, they are automatically 100% to blame for the failed marriage. No one ever thinks that there could possibly have been problems in the marriage that led the other to make a sinful decision to have an affair.

Also, why aren’t people this harsh toward those who are in their second marriages but yet waiting on an annulment (they’re committing adultry unless they’re living as brother and sister)?

 

[BLB_Oregon]

As soon as someone has an affair, they are automatically 100% to blame for the failed marriage. No one ever thinks that there could possibly have been problems in the marriage that led the other to make a sinful decision to have an affair.

That led to it, yes. That excuse it, no. This is not like the case where people lie to save Jews from the Nazis. There are no circumstances that I can imagine that ethically force a man into a sexual relationship with a woman who is not his wife. Who has a gun to any of these guys’ heads? His wife’s actions may have been gravely wrong; his certainly were.

But you are right: whether she is guilty of far worse transgressions in the marriage, done privately, this is often not considered. I guess people don’t like to pile on to the victims…it is bad form to ask a woman raped on a date if perhaps she hasn’t been dressing for the red-light district.

One would hope it goes without saying that others who commit worse sins on paper do better with the grace they have been given than what we do with ours. It doesn’t, really, but one would hope that it did. This business of “we are all sinners” and “only God reads hearts” should not just be parrot-talk.

In other words, it is rarely necessary for us to pass judgement on anything other than the action. How the person stands is something God can handle quite well without our weighing in.

Also, why aren’t people this harsh toward those who are in their second marriages but yet waiting on an annulment (they’re committing adultry unless they’re living as brother and sister)?

I don’t know if I’d characterize this board that way. Even the brother-sister arrangement has its opponents, on account of scandal.

Nevertheless, those who are divorced and re-married while awaiting annulment have at least avoided treachery. Maybe a home run is a home run, but some hits take the hide off the ball.

 

[Island_Oak]

We are not dating, but we are coparenting. We DO NOT live together because we ARE trying to do what is right (I know, too late). You have no idea the guilt and self hatred I have had to work through because of the harm I had done. You do not know him and the amount of guilt and self hatred he is still trying to heal from. God has forgiven me. God has forgiven him. Our current actions are proof to our priests and God of our repentance. God allowed me to screw up so that I could be humble and not judgemental as I once was. I am putting a very sinful past out there so that others can maybe learn from my mistakes…

Very powerful. Your ability to be honest about your mistakes and accept the responsibility and pain of your choices has clearly taught you some profound life lessons. Thank you for finding the courage and humility to share what you have learned.

 

[whatevergirl]

As a former “other woman” let me tell you, if it’s over, his actions will have to prove themselves. When I was the other woman I received a phone call from teh counselors office where he and his wife were at saying that things were over between us. His wife didn’t know that he had called me before AND after to let me know that it was not over, that he just had to do it to appease his wife. Speaking from experience, confrontation by the wife won’t change the situation and may make things worse for the marriage in the long run. Even though it is difficult because of the pain, she should try to find out the reasoning behind the affair and address that. If he were happy he wouldn’t just up and have an affair (mine was b/c his wife wouldn’t have children and criticized his Catholic faith). If they want to save their marriage, not only does he have to be willing to do whatever it takes to build trust but she also has to listen and accomodate his needs too (obviously if they’re within reason). He had an affair b/c he was lacking some trust in her too (that she couldn’t be trusted to listen to and meet his needs as a man, whatever those needs may have been). Even though there’s a third party, their marriage (or lack thereof) is about them, not the “other woman” or the spouse’s job or whatever can ruin a marriage.

Often, an affair doesn’t have anything to do with something wrong in the marriage. Many times, I have seen people leave their spouse for the ‘other’ woman, and then that marriage fails, as well. Affairs can stem from problems within a marriage…but most often, it’s someone who is lost and searching for something. Just my thoughts.

 

[whatevergirl]

To the OP–I would tell your friend to not confront the ‘other’ woman. There’s something…I dunno…degrading about confronting the other woman. Is your friend Catholic? Her husband Catholic?

 

[hasikelee]

I never said that what I did was right. However, as many priests who I have discussed my sin with have told me that the affair wasn’t right but also was a result of something lacking in their marriage that needed to be addressed. I am simply saying that some women and men who are married who are not receiving something that they vitally need from their spouse will look elsewhere to recieve what they need. Many women turn to someone else for the emotional support they are not receiving from their husbands and vice versa. An emotional affair is JUST AS SINFUL as a physical affair. However, because it isn’t as easily defined many who are in emotional affairs are in denial justifying their relationship as “just a friendship” because there isn’t physical involvement. If you read through examination of conscience books/pamphlets, under the “thou shalt not commit adultery” there is a question of “have I kept unnecessary company with someone other than my spouse?” “have I kept unnecessary company with someone else’s spouse?” The word “physical” isn’t in there because keeping company with someone to the detriment of a marriage doesn’t always have to be in the physical sense.

I was also just stating on the reality of an affair and the lies that are told to the spouse. That’s why actions should speak louder. Talking to the other woman will do NOTHING to help the marriage and may hurt the marriage even more because it will help the cheating spouse justify his/her affair even more in his/her mind and keep adding to his/her selfishness.

gmarie, your words hit the mark! www.marriagebuilders.com explains things similarly.

This is all speculation on my part, but I feel if my husband ever cheated on me emotionally it would hurt more than cheating on me sexually.

 

[cmujake]

To the OP–I would tell your friend to not confront the ‘other’ woman. There’s something…I dunno…degrading about confronting the other woman. Is your friend Catholic? Her husband Catholic?

No, they are Protestants.

From what I have read, though, I don’t believe confrontation would be a wise move.

 

[whatevergirl]

No, they are Protestants.

From what I have read, though, I don’t believe confrontation would be a wise move.

Oh, ok…I was going to say that if they are both Catholics…he could go to Confession…they could go together…that would be a good start to the healing process, perhaps? It will take time, but confronting the other woman isn’t a good idea. She is just a symptom of the main problem. Tell your friend good luck…and I will pray for her. That’s a tough spot to be in. She’s blessed to have a caring friend like you.

 

[Teelynn]

gmarie, your words hit the mark! www.marriagebuilders.com explains things similarly.

This is all speculation on my part, but I feel if my husband ever cheated on me emotionally it would hurt more than cheating on me sexually.

Very true hasikelee, trust me on this one, I went through an EA with my H, and it was one of the most devastating, horrific experiences of my life. I would have rather he had a one night stand with someone he didn’t know or care about. It’s one thing to loose your spouses’ body to someone else, it is quite another, in my opinion, to loose a spouses’*** heart***. And it was only through prayer and Divine Intervention that our marriage is still surviving and getting stronger. The huge obstacle with an EA is that the betrayer is able to easily justify a “just friendship” theory. It is a no win situation for the betrayed spouse, until the betrayer can see the error of his or her ways.

Tee

 

[mariam1976]

Very true hasikelee, trust me on this one, I went through an EA with my H, and it was one of the most devastating, horrific experiences of my life. I would have rather he had a one night stand with someone he didn’t know or care about. It’s one thing to loose your spouses’ body to someone else, it is quite another, in my opinion, to loose a spouses’*** heart***. And it was only through prayer and Divine Intervention that our marriage is still surviving and getting stronger. The huge obstacle with an EA is that the betrayer is able to easily justify a “just friendship” theory. It is a no win situation for the betrayed spouse, until the betrayer can see the error of his or her ways.

Tee

yes… i had the same issue where he was emotionally close to this girl and could not live without having her at any of the important occassions… everytime i would call him on it, i was called paranoid. but he was miserable when he could not be with her during the weekends… the so-called friend and that led to the end of my marriage. he did know that he was doing wrong as once he told me that i could not expect him to be a saint.

 

[Aleii]

Very powerful. Your ability to be honest about your mistakes and accept the responsibility and pain of your choices has clearly taught you some profound life lessons. Thank you for finding the courage and humility to share what you have learned.

Agreed! That took a lot of courage to share.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

yes… i had the same issue where he was emotionally close to this girl and could not live without having her at any of the important occassions… everytime i would call him on it, i was called paranoid. but he was miserable when he could not be with her during the weekends… the so-called friend and that led to the end of my marriage. he did know that he was doing wrong as once he told me that i could not expect him to be a saint.

The irony of that, of course, is that he was the one expecting himself to be “a saint”; that is, he thought he could have an intense emotional relationship with a woman, a relationship his wife was not a part of, and yet not have this affect his relationship with his wife. We aren’t made of steel. Something has to give. That will be the relationship we take for granted.

 

[mariam1976]

The irony of that, of course, is that he was the one expecting himself to be “a saint”; that is, he thought he could have an intense emotional relationship with a woman, a relationship his wife was not a part of, and yet not have this affect his relationship with his wife. We aren’t made of steel. Something has to give. That will be the relationship we take for granted.

i think i kind of understand what you are saying… he always thought that he had the control over himself and he could continue to be in this relationship with her and still not get involved… but the very fact that he overreacted every single time and could not let go and finally let go of the marriage to be with the “friends” told me that he had no control over it at all… is that what you meant? sometimes i think that God got me out of it even though i still dont want to let go although i am going to be divorced in april… still have doubts about the whole thing…

 

[BLB_Oregon]

i think i kind of understand what you are saying… he always thought that he had the control over himself and he could continue to be in this relationship with her and still not get involved… but the very fact that he overreacted every single time and could not let go and finally let go of the marriage to be with the “friends” told me that he had no control over it at all… is that what you meant? sometimes i think that God got me out of it even though i still dont want to let go although i am going to be divorced in april… still have doubts about the whole thing…

Exactly. He said, “You want me to be a saint.” meaning “You want me to practice more self-control than is reasonable.” when in reality he was asking himself to practice more self-control than was reasonable, something which only someone far advanced in self-control *could *do, and which they would only ask of themselves under extraordinary circumstances.

In spite of the popular conception, saints are prudent, humble people. They don’t try to be heroes when a hero isn’t called for. Rather, they depend on God to make them a hero when being a hero is the only faithful course.

You were asking for the sane course; he, the insane. He thought you were one who was asking too much of him, while he was the one doing that. We’ve all been there; it is a pitable state. That is the way of the world, though, to think that it is the saints who are trying to do things the hard way! If you see that in him, then it will be much easier to accept God’s mercy when you see it in yourself.

 

[mariam1976]

Exactly. He said, “You want me to be a saint.” meaning “You want me to practice more self-control than is reasonable.” when in reality he was asking himself to practice more self-control than was reasonable, something which only someone far advanced in self-control *could *do, and which they would only ask of themselves under extraordinary circumstances.

In spite of the popular conception, saints are prudent, humble people. They don’t try to be heroes when a hero isn’t called for. Rather, they depend on God to make them a hero when being a hero is the only faithful course.

You were asking for the sane course; he, the insane. He thought you were one who was asking too much of him, while he was the one doing that. We’ve all been there; it is a pitable state. That is the way of the world, though, to think that it is the saints who are trying to do things the hard way! If you see that in him, then it will be much easier to accept God’s mercy when you see it in yourself.

yes… you are right. I would always tell him that God has told us to flee from only one thing and that is temptation. He would never admit that he was attracted to other women as they were just his “friends”. But he never understood that there is nothing wrong in admitting that you do like someone more than you should, it happens to every human being. However, its when you insist on acting on those feelings against your better judgement that it becomes a sin. God never said that we would not be tempted but it was our “Free Will” to act on that temptation or flee from it. he preferred to act on it and prove to himself that he was above the temptation when he was actually succumbing to it.

 

[Teelynn]

yes… you are right. I would always tell him that God has told us to flee from only one thing and that is temptation. He would never admit that he was attracted to other women as they were just his “friends”. But he never understood that there is nothing wrong in admitting that you do like someone more than you should, it happens to every human being. However, its when you insist on acting on those feelings against your better judgement that it becomes a sin. God never said that we would not be tempted but it was our “Free Will” to act on that temptation or flee from it. he preferred to act on it and prove to himself that he was above the temptation when he was actually succumbing to it.

 

[Teelynn]

yes… you are right. I would always tell him that God has told us to flee from only one thing and that is temptation. He would never admit that he was attracted to other women as they were just his “friends”. But he never understood that there is nothing wrong in admitting that you do like someone more than you should, it happens to every human being. However, its when you insist on acting on those feelings against your better judgement that it becomes a sin. God never said that we would not be tempted but it was our “Free Will” to act on that temptation or flee from it. he preferred to act on it and prove to himself that he was above the temptation when he was actually succumbing to it.

It is a “symtom” I believe of EAs, to have the arrogance to believe that you are definitely “above” doing anything wrong in another relationship outside marriage. I heard it from my H a million times when we were going through this, “I WOULD NEVER!” I am not even attracted to her, we are just “good friends!” By the grace of God, in time he began to realize he was on a*** very*** slippery slope. I told him that in marriage I expected to be his BEST friend, and there was no way I would play 2nds to another woman’s friendship. I will pray for you Mariam, as I know from experience what you are going through.

I agree with the other posters that confronting the other woman will not do as much good as it “seems” that it would.
That being said, I have read from professionals that deal with marital affairs that they are an addiction. And addictions should be dealt with by “exposing” them. If you have pretty much proof of an A, don’t keep it to yourself, expose it to your spouse’s friends, family, whoever he or she is close to. It definitely is a risk, they say, but the best way to handle it. (???)

Tee

 

[Robaynne]

The best for your friend to do it just let it go. Confronting the women is not going to change anything. Her husband will have to do everything in his power for her to trust him again. And I really hope and pray that this was the first and last time that he has cheated on his wife. If your friend decides to confront this women she will be opening up a can of worms. Because she does not know how this women will react towards her. And another thing, things might come out that she will not be able to handle.

I am talking from experience I confronted my husband mistress in September 2005 and it had terrible repercussions. I gave her such a beating that she would never forget. And it did not make any difference he still left me for her, they are living together today even though we are not divorced yet, and also they have a 7 month old child together. So me making myself a complete fool and idiot over somebody that was not even worth it. I embarrassed myself over the situation, I hurt myself over the situation and it made no difference at all and it never change anything. All it did was cause me more pain and suffering because the same day that I did that the situation became to much to handle and I decided to end my life by taking sleeping tablets.

When I look back I cannot believe what a fool and idiot I was I should have just left it alone and walked away. Because he still left me for this girl. Your friends husband is sorry for what he has done and wants to make things right. She is not going to get closure over this it will be a reminder for the rest of her life.

Because of what happened to me and my marriage. Things have not been easy it is hard to put the pieces of your life together again. I used to be very close with my neighbour who stays right next door to me. Our children used to play together and we were very close. And she was there for me during a this tough time. The only problem with her is that she has not worked for 15 years and she is totally and completely dependent on her husband for everything. She is +40 years old and she just has alot of issues. She drinks sometimes and gets very drunk and performs with her husband. Telling how he cheated on her in the past and so on and so on. Anyway the point of the story is that she found out that her husband was cheating on her. I suspected but had no proof so therefore I did not want to be the cause of breaking up a marriage that is +15 years old. And also I did not want her go through what I was going through. He was cheating on her with a much younger girl than even me this girl is about 22 years old and she was going on business trips with him and so on and so on. Anyway she wanted to go and confront this girl and beat her up and so on and so on. I did not want this women to get hurt I mean first of all this women has a very low self esteem of herself. When she sees this girl she would be reminder of how young this girl is. And she was drunk when she was going on and on. And insisting that a friend and I go there with her. I said to her look at me your husband still wants to work things out with you and make things right. What are you going to accomplish by going there. Anyway as the day went by I was at work and she called me and was swearing at me on the phone. When I got home from work she was swearing me and calling me such terrible names and saying I was not a women just a B@tch and a cheap women that is why my husband left me. How can I not tell her what her husband was doing. Why did I not tell her to come back from her holiday with her family because her husband was busy with this women. How was I supposed to know for sure that her husband was cheating and it was not my place to say anything because I did not know for sure. What proof or evidence did I have. When she was gone the only women that came there was his friends girlfriend. We all went out once and as far as we all knew the girl was his friends girlfriend. Her husband introduced this girl and her boyfriend to us as so and so girlfriend. We did not think anything. Then I was told that I went out with this girl and we were all partying together and why did I not tell her that her husband was busy. It was such a situation. I was embarrassed and humiliated in front of everybody. And guess what today she and her husband do not speak to me. He only wants to greet me when she is not around. He did not even come and say sorry that you got blamed for nothing. The children do not greet me and I am the bad one today. And she and her husband are happy together and who is the bad one me. So whether I said anything or not would have made no difference except I would be the bad one who is jealous of their marriage etc.

So at the end of the day these things happen. And I thank God that I have survived all this drama.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

It is a “symtom” I believe of EAs, to have the arrogance to believe that you are definitely “above” doing anything wrong in another relationship outside marriage. I heard it from my H a million times when we were going through this, “I WOULD NEVER!” I am not even attracted to her, we are just “good friends!” By the grace of God, in time he began to realize he was on a*** very*** slippery slope. I told him that in marriage I expected to be his BEST friend, and there was no way I would play 2nds to another woman’s friendship. I will pray for you Mariam, as I know from experience what you are going through.

I agree with the other posters that confronting the other woman will not do as much good as it “seems” that it would.
That being said, I have read from professionals that deal with marital affairs that they are an addiction. And addictions should be dealt with by “exposing” them. If you have pretty much proof of an A, don’t keep it to yourself, expose it to your spouse’s friends, family, whoever he or she is close to. It definitely is a risk, they say, but the best way to handle it. (???)

Tee

I need to point out, too, that in healthy marriages the couple does not put their other friendships first. My husband has friends, both male and female, but he makes it clear that these are, by my DH’s choice, on my terms. If it bothers me, he doesn’t spend time with them. If they have a lunch date, I am always told and I am always invited.

In other words, even though some are closer to me and some closer to him, we have one kind of friend: our friends.

Likewise, I have male friends from long past who have let me know that their wives are not comfortable with me. I let them know that this is nothing to apologize for and that I think that a true friend helps their friends put their marriages first. The spouse is your life. The spouse comes first. Every other friend needs to fit around that…and if there is not room in a marriage for other friends, go directly to counselling and do not pass go. The spouse is the best friend, but still only the first among many. If you don’t want your spouse having any friends but you, your marriage needs an intervention, too.

 

[mariam1976]

I need to point out, too, that in healthy marriages the couple does not put their other friendships first. My husband has friends, both male and female, but he makes it clear that these are, by my DH’s choice, on my terms. If it bothers me, he doesn’t spend time with them. If they have a lunch date, I am always told and I am always invited.

In other words, even though some are closer to me and some closer to him, we have one kind of friend: our friends.

Likewise, I have male friends from long past who have let me know that their wives are not comfortable with me. I let them know that this is nothing to apologize for and that I think that a true friend helps their friends put their marriages first. The spouse is your life. The spouse comes first. Every other friend needs to fit around that…and if there is not room in a marriage for other friends, go directly to counselling and do not pass go. The spouse is the best friend, but still only the first among many. If you don’t want your spouse having any friends but you, your marriage needs an intervention, too.

I completely agree with you that the spouse is the first friend among many and you do not want to cut out friends from your life as it is unhealthy. My only problem with his friends, especially the girls was that they would try to take my place in his life as far as opinions about family life were concerned. Initially when we first got married, I spend a lot of time with his friends but soon I came to realize that he was paying more attention to them and their opinions than to me. After all, shouldn’t it matter more to him that I want to spend time with him than his friends on special occasions? Is that too much to ask? Why cant we decorate the Christmas tree on our own instead of having all his friends there to do it? That started hurting me very badly. Also he was never upfront about the fact that he would get jealous. I have male friends from long past too but I cut down on my interaction with them once I got married as I believe that my spouse is to be my best friend as far as the opposite sex is involved. He did not believe in that.

I love the statement – Our friends. He never understood that concept. In fact, he would even get jealous when his friends paid more attention to me than to him. It was a very weird marriage where I did not know where I stood with him at any time or on any point. When we were breaking up, he was not even interested in going to counseling.