Confused about culpability

[WannabeSaint]

I’m confused over something I read. Cardinal Muller says the following.

"What if the penitent is not accountable for his or her sins, because of a lack of knowledge or responsibility? A person’s freedom may be impaired due to ignorance. God alone is able to judge a person’s subjective culpability."

Is this true?

If we were to apply the same logic, wouldn’t that mean…for example…I could be held culpable for vandalizing my neighbor’s home even though I wasn’t even in town when it was vandalized nor did I make any plans to vandalize his house?

What is the Cardinal referring to here in his statement?

 

[EZweber]

An example would be a former Catholic turned Fundamentalist who believes that Mass on Sunday is not obligatory. They would not be fully culpable for missing Mass.

 

[Canvas]

It means different people can commit the same sin, but the persons who are well aware what they are doing is wrong and acting freely are more guilty than one who is mistaken or ignorant or who may have been coerced or is suffering from a mental impairment.

It has nothing to do with not sinning at all, which would be the case if you didn’t vandalize your neighbor’s property or intend to.

Someone who does destroy their neighbor’s property and is aware what they are doing is wrong, sinful and is knowingly doing it freely out of malice or anger is more guilty subjectively than a person who is mentally ill who is destroying his neighbor’s property because he thinks his neighbor is a CIA agent spying on his thoughts and trying to find the thought transmitter he believes is hidden in his neighbor’s house, even though they may have done the exact same damage.

In fact, a very mentally ill person may have very little culpability for many sins due to the fact that their ability to reason is severely impaired.

 

[po18guy]

He is speaking of your personal knowledge of the sin, and the freedom of your will as you commit the sin and nothing more.

Ignorance of certain sins lessens your culpability. Mental illness lessens your culpability.

 

[PatK63]

It is the reason we can not judge others. We can make value judgments but can not judge moral culpability.

 

[po18guy]

We can certainly admonish, as that is one of the spiritual works of mercy.

From the USCCB website:

Admonishing the sinner

Do not judge, but be supportive in helping others find their way and correct their mistakes. Together we can learn to walk more closely with Christ.

• In humility we must strive to create a culture that does not accept sin, while realizing that we all fall at times
• Don’t judge, but guide others towards the path of salvation (see Mt 7:1-2)
• When you correct someone, don’t be arrogant. We are all in need of God’s loving correction.
• We should journey together to a deeper understanding of our shared faith
• “Remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye” (Mt 7:5)

 

[WannabeSaint]

Here is the part of the quote I forgot to mention.

Blockquote

But not even the penitent him- or herself can decide to what extent God holds him or her accountable for the sin. Trying to do so would simply mean to justify oneself.

Blockquote

This is where my question about vandalizing came up, because the Cardinal seems to be saying that even if there is no evidence to the contrary that we aren’t culpable, we still cant know because we would be justifying ourselves.

So even though I was out of town when the neighbor was vandalized, I STILL can’t justify myself.

At least that’s the logic I got out of it. I could be wrong though which is why I made the OP.

 

[whatistrue]

But not even the penitent him- or herself can decide to what extent God holds him or her accountable for the sin.

Your question seems to imply that you think that God might hold you accountable for a sin you didn’t commit. I don’t believe that is how it works. The discussion was about the possible level of culpability for the sins the penitent did commit.

 

[whatistrue]

We can certainly admonish , as that is one of the spiritual works of mercy.

As a general observation, not thinking of any specific person or incident, it seems odd to me how often a “work of mercy” looks like piling on or beating up.

 

[po18guy]

OK, but it is far more loving and decent than suffering eternal torment in hell. Are parents “piling on” when they discipline their child? Or, is it an act of love - despite what it may feel like to the child?

 

[whatistrue]

Are parents “piling on” when they discipline their child?

Absolutely not. But that only applies to a parent-child relationship, not some random “sinner” one happens to see.

In any case, there is no need to justify something that I never accused you of. I actually did mean it when I said “…not thinking of any specific person or incident…”. Nor did I say that admonishment is always piling on, just that it often looks that way to bystanders.

 

[po18guy]

Well, if you are Christian, you desire the salvation of souls in the manner that God desires their salvation. Are not all made in the image and likeness of God? Are all not infinitely loved by God? Are we not judged by our love? Why would we be placed in their presence in the first place?

 

[whatistrue]

You appear to be arguing against a position that I am not espousing, so all I can say is:

Whatever, dude.

 

[WannabeSaint]

I guess I’m still confused that ONLY God can truly know ones subjective culpability of their sin.

For instance, a 7 year old child born in a remote pagan jungle tribe not attending Mass on Sunday because the child is completely unaware of Christianity. What the child did was a sin, but they were completely unaware it was one…

Wouldn’t that be absolutely obvious the child wasn’t culpable? How could they be held culpable?