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Luke 4:4:
Just a few questions for everyone.

IThe list goes on and on. Clean and unclean foods, Though shall have no other Gods befor me (i.e. the Pope),

Please answer tell me why the churches of this world continue do do thing so contrary to the Bible.
Plaese prove your points using the bible. If it can’t be proved from the bible it means nothing.

Dave
First, Luke you don’t sound confused you sound angry.

Second, the subject of clean and unclean foods, read Acts 10; 13-15.

Third, remember this Luke the Church begot the Bible, the Bible did not beget the Church.

God Bless all here.
 
Luke 4:4:
Just a few questions for everyone.

I was just wondering why the many “christian” churches of this world don’t feel that they have to keep Gods laws. And why is it that they twist Gods laws around to fit their needs or add things to his word whenever it suits them.

i.e. the sabbath. God clearly states that the sabbath is on the seventh day. Last time I checked the seventh day was saturday not sunday. SOmeone show me whaere God changed the sabbath day to Sunday.

Gods Holy Days. How is it that the “christian” churches of this world celebrate pagen holidays like christmas and easter which were created by men but fail to keep Gods Holy Days such as Pentacost, the Day of atonement or the Feast of Trumpets.

The list goes on and on. Clean and unclean foods, Though shall have no other Gods befor me (i.e. the Pope),

Please answer tell me why the churches of this world continue do do thing so contrary to the Bible.
Plaese prove your points using the bible. If it can’t be proved from the bible it means nothing.

Dave
In your profile you say you are a non-denominational christian…so I ask you the same question…why do you not follow Gods law? I was once a “non-denominational christian” until I decided to follow Gods law.
 
Luke 4:4 said:

Oh wow… when I cited Loraine Boettner earlier, I really had noooo idea!

Some of you power-lifters take a look at that - is that not Boettner’s work?

It sure loooooooks mighty familiar! Is it lifted wholesale?

Elizabeth
 
Luke 4:4:
Just a few questions for everyone.

I was just wondering why the many “christian” churches of this world don’t feel that they have to keep Gods laws. And why is it that they twist Gods laws around to fit their needs or add things to his word whenever it suits them.
Yeah, this has got to go. It’s like those groups that twist Scripture so to say the Bible alone is sufficient because they’d prefer to interpret it their own way.
i.e. the sabbath. God clearly states that the sabbath is on the seventh day. Last time I checked the seventh day was saturday not sunday. Someone show me whaere God changed the sabbath day to Sunday.
Then God-made-man changed it to Sunday. The old Sabbath (Saturday) signified the end of God’s Creation. Jesus makes all things new again so it makes sense that we should celebrate this new beginning on the first day, as the Apostles did.
Gods Holy Days. How is it that the “christian” churches of this world celebrate pagen holidays like christmas and easter which were created by men but fail to keep Gods Holy Days such as Pentacost, the Day of atonement or the Feast of Trumpets.
Actually, the reason Pagan holidays were chosen to be Christian holidays was for the very reason that they would replace them. It seemed to be pretty successful.
The list goes on and on. Clean and unclean foods,
Someone already showed you the passage dealing with this.
Though shall have no other Gods befor me (i.e. the Pope),
I can’t speak for all churches, but Catholics only have one God. The pope is not a god. Show me in Scripture where it says Catholics believe the pope is God;)
Please answer tell me why the churches of this world continue do do thing so contrary to the Bible.
I know, this really bugs me. Why don’t they eat Jesus flesh? Why don’t they have Bishops? Why don’t they have a pure sacrafice offered from sun-up to sundown? Why don’t they call Mary blessed? Why do they cause schisms and division? Why do they believe in traditions of men like “once saved, always saved”, sola fide, and sola scriptura? Why don’t they baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Why do they divorce? Why do they use contraception? Why don’t they have Apostolic succession and the sacrament of Holy Orders? The list goes on and on…😉
Plaese prove your points using the bible. If it can’t be proved from the bible it means nothing.
Dave
Where in the Bible does it say this? Please use only the Bible and not doctrines created by Martin Luther to support your answer:thumbsup:
 
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Genesis315:
Where in the Bible does it say this? Please use only the Bible and not doctrines created by Martin Luther to support your answer:thumbsup:
Loved your answers, Genesis. 🙂

But, the thing with this offshoot of WWCOG is that they go wayyyyyy back to before Luther - they actually believe that THEY are the original Christians/Catholics - the ones that have the 2000 years of authority and truth!

How they do this with a “Bible-alone” theology, much less a “KJV BibleOnly,” is maybe something best left in the Twilight Zone. :eek:

Elizabeth
 
Luke it is very plain to see that you are a member of one of the dozens of “Church of God” heresies that splintered away from Herbert W Armstrong’s “Worldwide church of God” when they decided to change their ways and become orthodox Christians.

Just a few little tips here. Catholics are Christian, we do not observe the Jewish sabbath or Jewish holidays. We do not observe the Jewish law. Like I already said we are Christians and not Jews and not hybrid Christian-Jews. We believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit one God. (we do not beleive that the Holy Spirit is a “force” but a Person in the Holy Trinity).

We do not beleive in the “family of God”.

We do not believe in Anglo-Isrealism.

We do not believe that we will become “gods” following our deaths.

All of those things are taught by the Armstrongers of which you are one.

Luke you may not be aware of the existence of Eastern-Rite Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, but all call the Festival of Christ’s Ressurection “Pascha” and not Easter. Pascha means Passover, a term you must surely approve of knowing your Jewish proclivities.

So much for your arguments about “ishtar” and "asarte’.
 
I just I would share some things regarding this thread.
Code:
   First of all regarding the claim that the Church has added to the Bible because of what is written in Rev 22:19 (19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.)
Nekić said it correctly that “The writer of Revelations is talking about THAT SPECIFIC BOOK: REVELATIONS. The bible didn’t exist then.”

But lets supposed that Rev 22:18 was speaking about the Bible as we have known it since the year 354 AD. That canon was used by THE Church until the deformation when ML decided to remove some of the books. GASP :eek:what does REV 19 say about “taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy?” Protestants that interpret Rev 22:18-19 in this manner are GUILTY of their own accusations. They removed books!!!:tsktsk: Council after council declared the canon but was affirmed at the Council of Trent to counter the deformers.

Funny thing you guys; look at the readings for tomorrow Sunday Jul 19 at the Gospel of Matthew 13: 1-23. Claims are made that Catholics don’t read scripture. Catholics believe that the Bible is the Word of God but God did not write it. Jesus only wrote one thing and nobody knows what it is he wrote. Men wrote the Bible under the INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Matt 13:9 says “He who has ears, let him hear” it does not say “He who had eyes let him read” Vs 13-15 ; “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive. 15 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.” People since the deformation have being interpreting Scripture on their own (and what does 2 Peter 1:20 say? "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation” and 3:16 “…There are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures) and believe me it is they whohave twisted it to their on destruction.Witness the many different interpretations and denominations that have been born out of twisted interpretations.
Matt Vs 19 “When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart….” This is what happens when people follow their own ideas. Vs 23”…. he who hears the word and understands it….” The Catholic Church has 2000 years of understanding. How dare these people come to the CC and make charges that the CC has twisted scripture and want to prove the Church wrong in their interpretation.
Code:
 **YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SCRIPTURE SAVE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.**
It’s like this. An Indian from the Amazon jungle is given a few lessons in English. They give him a book “English for dummies” and then he has the gall to tell Webster that his definitions are all wrong and he knows better because he has read “English for dummies”.
Code:
I’m sure that some of you guys that are converts to the CC tried to do the same thing.   Right?

   Good night all :sleep:-  See you at Mass tomorrow….
 
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Genesis315:
Yeah, this has got to go. It’s like those groups that twist Scripture so to say the Bible alone is sufficient because they’d prefer to interpret it their own way.

Then God-made-man changed it to Sunday. The old Sabbath (Saturday) signified the end of God’s Creation. Jesus makes all things new again so it makes sense that we should celebrate this new beginning on the first day, as the Apostles did.

Actually, the reason Pagan holidays were chosen to be Christian holidays was for the very reason that they would replace them. It seemed to be pretty successful.

Someone already showed you the passage dealing with this.

I can’t speak for all churches, but Catholics only have one God. The pope is not a god. Show me in Scripture where it says Catholics believe the pope is God;)

I know, this really bugs me. Why don’t they eat Jesus flesh? Why don’t they have Bishops? Why don’t they have a pure sacrafice offered from sun-up to sundown? Why don’t they call Mary blessed? Why do they cause schisms and division? Why do they believe in traditions of men like “once saved, always saved”, sola fide, and sola scriptura? Why don’t they baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit? Why do they divorce? Why do they use contraception? Why don’t they have Apostolic succession and the sacrament of Holy Orders? The list goes on and on…😉

Where in the Bible does it say this? Please use only the Bible and not doctrines created by Martin Luther to support your answer:thumbsup:
You are so full of it. How exactly would using Gods words alone be twisting scripture around for our own interpretation. Would it not seem more logical that using mans additions to the bible would be twisting the scripture around???

It may make sence to you to keep the sabbath on the first day but who really cares what makes sence to you. God says nothing about a first day sabbath so it obviously doesn’t make sence to him. You think your smater than God? You think you figured something out that he didn’t know. In case you didn’t notice mans sence of right and wrong is slightly flawed. As soon as we use our own scewed sence of logic we can be sure we will pervert Gods way. God ddin’t give us his laws for interpretation. He gave us specifics, not a broad unclear set of rules that we could change to whatever we felt was right.

SO eater bunnys, easter eggs, Santa clause, christmas trees, Christmas trees etc etc are all supposed to be christian. How did I miss that in the bible. No, I’m pretty sure those are all pagen symbols.
Whatever makes sence to you tho right?

In case you didn’t notice I was talking about catholics too. Why do they have a pope? Why do they have bishops? Why do they have nuns. Why do they have cardinals? Where does the bible tell us to have mass? Where does the bbile tell us to pray to mary? Where does the bible say we are to pray to saints? Where does the bible tell us there is a trinity? Where doesw the bible say to have a sunday sabbath? Where does the bible say to celebrate easter or christmas? the list goes on and on.

The bible is the word of God. God tells us to live by everyone of his words. God never once tells us to live by the words of men. He never once tells us that he will use men to piece together the parts thast he apparently left out :rotfl: He instead tell us that men will come denying his very words. Just as the Christian churches of this world have done.
De 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


I do not follow any of the teachings of Martin Luthor! THis man has many false teaching just as the catholic church has.
 
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ElizabethJoy:
Loved your answers, Genesis. 🙂

But, the thing with this offshoot of WWCOG is that they go wayyyyyy back to before Luther - they actually believe that THEY are the original Christians/Catholics - the ones that have the 2000 years of authority and truth!

How they do this with a “Bible-alone” theology, much less a “KJV BibleOnly,” is maybe something best left in the Twilight Zone. :eek:

Elizabeth
Show me anywhere that Mr. armstrong or any of his followers say we have been around for 2000 years. You wont find it! Nowhere did the Worldwide church of god claim that it was the only church. Nowhere did it tell people that if you did not belong to their church you were lost. They did not teach these things because this is not what god taught. The church is not a corporate structure with a man made name. The church is the Church of God. That is the churches name. Given by god. It is a group of people who live gods way, follow his laws and do everything humanly possible to be like him. God couldn’t care less what physical church we belong too. Your using human logic to try and explain God.

The last tije I checked We don’t use the KJV bible olone.
The only real way to study the bible and find the true meanings to scriptures is to take the words back to their original greek and hebrew. Only then will we understand the full scope of their meanings. I couldn’t care less how a man has translated it into english. The books were not inspired in english therefore the english version is wrong.
 
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TobyLue:
Nekić said it correctly that “The writer of Revelations is talking about THAT SPECIFIC BOOK: REVELATIONS. The bible didn’t exist then.”

But lets supposed that Rev 22:18 was speaking about the Bible as we have known it since the year 354 AD. That canon was used by THE Church until the deformation when ML decided to remove some of the books. GASP :eek:what does REV 19 say about “taking away from the words of the book of this prophecy?” Protestants that interpret Rev 22:18-19 in this manner are GUILTY of their own accusations. They removed books!!!:tsktsk: Council after council declared the canon but was affirmed at the Council of Trent to counter the deformers.

Funny thing you guys; look at the readings for tomorrow Sunday Jul 19 at the Gospel of Matthew 13: 1-23. Claims are made that Catholics don’t read scripture. Catholics believe that the Bible is the Word of God but God did not write it. Jesus only wrote one thing and nobody knows what it is he wrote. Men wrote the Bible under the INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. Matt 13:9 says “He who has ears, let him hear” it does not say “He who had eyes let him read” Vs 13-15 ; “This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: `You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive. 15 For this people’s heart has grown dull, and their ears are heavy of hearing, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should perceive with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.” People since the deformation have being interpreting Scripture on their own (and what does 2 Peter 1:20 say? "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation” and 3:16 “…There are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures) and believe me it is they whohave twisted it to their on destruction.Witness the many different interpretations and denominations that have been born out of twisted interpretations.
Matt Vs 19 “When any one hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what is sown in his heart….” This is what happens when people follow their own ideas. Vs 23”…. he who hears the word and understands it….” The Catholic Church has 2000 years of understanding. How dare these people come to the CC and make charges that the CC has twisted scripture and want to prove the Church wrong in their interpretation.
Code:
 **YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SCRIPTURE SAVE FOR THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.**
It’s like this. An Indian from the Amazon jungle is given a few lessons in English. They give him a book “English for dummies” and then he has the gall to tell Webster that his definitions are all wrong and he knows better because he has read “English for dummies”.
Code:
I’m sure that some of you guys that are converts to the CC tried to do the same thing.   Right?

   Good night all :sleep:-  See you at Mass tomorrow….
The versus you quoted are very fitting. They tell us that no man can undertand gods words unless he opens that mans mind. That person must be given the power of the holy spirit to undertsand the scriptures true meaning. The catholic church as a whole has obviously not been given the power of the holy spirit.

“….” This is what happens when people follow their own ideas.”
People like catholics? Catholics are following their own ideas. Sunday worship is there idea is it not? Easter and christmas are their ideas are they not? Mass, the pope, cardinals, bishops, nuns. All their ideas! Mans ideas. Not Gods. Bottom line.

It iss obviously a beleif in the catholic church that for some reason GOd needs Mans help. God is somehow not capable of telling people his true message without mans help. Nowhere in the bible is this found. This is mans ideas. I couldn’t care less if the catholic church has been around for 10 years or 10000 years. If they are wrong they are wrong. If a certain group is at war with another group for thousands of years does that make the wars write? of course not. Human logic can not even justify that argument. Never mind gods logic.
 
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Joe57:
Dave,

Your comment about the Pope hardly warants a response. Catholics do not worship the Pope. He is simply Christ’s successor here on earth.

Joe
not Christ’s successor. Peter’s successor, steward, keeper of the keys until the King
returns to take His rightful place.
 
Oops, it bit me again! Dave is only 19. :o I should have checked, sooner.

Dave, you don’t seem to want to talk to me very much and I understand. Women aren’t supposed to speak in church. (or on matters of faith, except with other women)

But, I’ll keep talking to you, anyway… I’ve got grandchildren older than you are. I want them all to come to Christ, even if it’s not the Catholic church. I want them all to know the infinite mercy and love of God. And that is what I wish for you, little brother.

Interesting that you’re about the same age as I was when I was in the WWCOG and thought I’d been handed all knowledge by the great and powerful Oz.

Pretty heady stuff for someone not yet twenty.

Three or four years later, completely disillusioned with God, I left WWCOG to go into a fluff-bunny new-agey spirituality and then A Course in Miracles. Later still, I practiced a vile pantheism. The seeds were planted by the “understanding” that I gained in studying with the WWCOG. Seeds of doubt, disbelief and the impossibility of God.

By their fruits shall ye know them.

WWCOG taught a vile concoction of lies and heresy back then and the offshoots are perpetuating the same lies and heresies, today.

Read the History of the Early Church by Eusebius, not the little scraps fed to you by the descendants of Herbert W.

Read Boettner’s book to see where HWA got some of his ideas. Read the early church fathers.

Did you know that much more writings of the apostles’ disciples are preserved than would fit into a book the size of the New Testament?

Who do you trust more as a Biblical authority?

The men who were teaching what Christ taught before the Bible even existed?

Or a man who took a heavily redacted version of the Bible and the ravings of a lunatic (Boettner) and mixed them together to produce yet another flavor of anti-Catholic “religion” forty-some-odd years ago?

The fate of your immortal soul may well rest on your decision.

Elizabeth
 
Luke 4:4:
This is definetaly not what I intend. God gave us the festivals that he wanted us to follow. Passover, The days of unleavend bread, pentacost, the feast of trumpets, the feast of atonement, the feast of booths or tabernacles and the last great day. These feasts are symbols of God great plan for Humanity. He doesn’t need us to make new feasts and decide what is and isn’t important. Nowhere in the bible are we comanded to celebrate a persons birth, not even Jesus birth. We are though commanded to celebrate his crucifixion, Passover.
bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.showResource/CT/HWA/k/462

Dave
just to tweakk your tweeter, con gusto, pentAcost is really spelled pentecost
 
Luke 4:4:
Show me anywhere that Mr. armstrong or any of his followers say we have been around for 2000 years. You wont find it!
First of all, I did not say that HWA made this claim - I don’t remember that he ever said such a thing - I said that,
“the thing with this offshoot of WWCOG is that they go wayyyyyy back to before Luther - they actually believe that THEY are the original Christians/Catholics
Second, if your church is not claiming to be the original Catholic Church, then what is the Church of the Great God doing with this on its web site?
ccg.org/_domain/originalcatholicchurch.org/English/english.htm
**
**
Original Catholic Church%between%
****Now Revealed
Original Catholic Church doctrines are the same as those held by our master Joshua the Messiah called Jesus the Christ by the Greeks and Romans.

Please read on. Hello and welcome to our website. Most people will be very surprised by the true story of the first century faith.

Christ entrusted the gospel of the good news of the kingdom of God to our early leaders the apostles. The story of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mariam (called Mary) is a great story.

These doctrines and understanding as taught by Christ and the Apostles, have been around for 2000 years, and are still held by us in spite of intense persecution by the god of this world and the religions who serve him.

It is still the same faith with the same first century doctrines that were given to Christ, and is still following the same laws always followed by those of the faith.

We have always held the same doctrines of the Sacraments of the first century faith. We acknowledge only Baptism and the Lord’s Supper as sole sacraments of the faith.

The Sabbath has always been a sign of the true faith but it was not the only sign of our people.

We believe that Joshua the Messiah called Jesus Christ died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead. He became a son of God in power from his resurrection from the dead.

You are invited to come on in and take a look at the rest of the story. Just click the link below.

Original Catholic Church Site To Get The Rest Of The Story Click Here.
The last tije I checked We don’t use the KJV bible olone.
Perhaps not today - it was the ONLY Bible recommended by HWA and CGG certainly seems to admire it over the RSV. Ambassador College Correspondence Course 12:
Why Critics Reject Greeks’ Text
Now let us see what has happened. We find that modern critics refuse to accept the valid manuscripts which the Greeks have preserved! They have done the same with the true text of the Old Testament! OVER 95% OF ALL NEW TESTAMENT MANUSCRIPTS HAVE BEEN PRESERVED BY THE GREEKS. These were the manuscripts basically used in the King James Version. cgg.org//index.cfm/page/literature.ACCC.index/ID/12.htm
 
Luke 4:4,

It’s interesting that you name yourself with this passage, because if you read a little further you will see where Satan says, “It is written…” and Jesus counters with, “It is said…” in order to show him the correct interpretation and application of that written Word (DR Luke 4:10-12).
 
Luke 4:4:
… Everything we need to live his way of life is in that bible for everyone to find …
That is not true. Scripture tells us that not everything about the faith was wriiten down within it’s pages (see John 20:30-31 = Jesus did and said many other things in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.). Also note that 2 Thessalonians 2:15 tells us to hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. If everything we needed was to be found in the bible, the bible wouldn’t be telling us to follow the oral instructions that are passed down to us.
 
Luke 4:4:
  1. The key to understanding this scripture lies in the correct translation of the Greek words here rendered “Peter” and “rock.” The Greek word translated “Peter” is petros, meaning “pebble” or “small stone,” while the word rendered “rock” is petra, meaning “big rock” or “huge boulder.”
  2. Christ says He would build His church on the boulder, not on Peter the pebble. Christ is the rock (I Corinthians 10:4). He is also the “chief cornerstone,” upon which the church is built (Ephesians 2:20).
The words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant “small stone” and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used. For an Evangelical Protestant Greek scholar’s admission of this, see D. A. Carson, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1984], Frank E. Gaebelein, ed., 8:368.

Additionally, Jesus did not speak Greek. He spoke Aramaic because some of his words are preserved for us in the Gospels. Look at Matthew 27:46, where he says from the cross, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ That isn’t Greek; it’s Aramaic, and it means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’

What’s more, in Paul’s epistles—four times in Galatians and four times in 1 Corinthians—we have the Aramaic form of Simon’s new name preserved for us. In our English Bibles it comes out as Cephas. That isn’t Greek. That’s a transliteration of the Aramaic word Kepha (rendered as Kephas in its Hellenistic form). And what does Kepha mean? It means a rock, the same as petra. It doesn’t mean a little stone or a pebble. What Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18 was this: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’

When you understand what the Aramaic says, you see that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock; he wasn’t contrasting them. We see this vividly in some modern English translations, which render the verse this way: ‘You are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.’ In French one word, pierre, has always been used both for Simon’s new name and for the rock.

Beyond the grammatical evidence, the structure of the narrative does not allow for a downplaying of Peter’s role in the Church. Look at the way Matthew 16:15-19 is structured. After Peter gives a confession about the identity of Jesus, the Lord does the same in return for Peter. Jesus does not say, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are an insignificant pebble and on this rock I will build my Church. – I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus is giving Peter a three-fold blessing, including the gift of the keys to the kingdom, not undermining his authority. To say that Jesus is downplaying Peter flies in the face of the context. Jesus is installing Peter as a form of chief steward or prime minister under the King of Kings by giving him the keys to the kingdom. As can be seen in Isaiah 22:22, kings in the Old Testament appointed a chief steward to serve under them in a position of great authority to rule over the inhabitants of the kingdom. Jesus quotes almost verbatum from this passage in Isaiah, and so it is clear what he has in mind. He is raising Peter up as a father figure to the household of faith (Is. 22:21), to lead them and guide the flock (John 21:15-17). This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years by means of the papacy.
 
Luke 4:4:
… The bible is the word of God …
Luke 4:4:
… Plaese prove your points using the bible. If it can’t be proved from the bible it means nothing …
Before we go any further, if you are going to give absolute and final authority to the bible, then you need to first PROVE that the bible is indeed the Word of God.

It is a historical fact that the Catholic church assembled the bible – which means that it has authority over the bible and not the other way around. And it is via this authority that they declared the bible to be the Word of God.

If you reject this authority of the Catholic church, then please PROVE to us that the Bible is indeed the word of God. The bible wasn’t given to us by God in the same manner that the ten commandments were given to Moses by God. There is no master index telling us what books are to be contained in the bible. PROVE that all the books contained in the bible should be in there and all of the books left out of the bible should have been left out.

If you can not prove that the bible is the Word of God, then you can not give it absolute & final authority. And if you bring the Catholic Church into the discussion, then you are acknowledging the authority of the Catholic church OVER the bible.
 
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ElizabethJoy:
Second, if your church is not claiming to be the original Catholic Church, then what is the Church of the Great God doing with this on its web site?
ccg.org/_domain/originalcatholicchurch.org/English/english.htm

QUOTE]

If you had bothered to read that website you would have seen it has nothing to do with CGG. That is from the Christian Churches of God website. CCG.
I just find it intersting that there is another group out there also claiming to be the original church and their doctrines are the complete opposite of yours. It would seem there are other besides HWA’s followers that completely disagree with your teachings.
 
Luke 4:4:
I just find it intersting that there is another group out there also claiming to be the original church and their doctrines are the complete opposite of yours. It would seem there are other besides HWA’s followers that completely disagree with your teachings.
Herbert W. Armstrong. That explains a lot. He’s the author of *The United States and Britain in Prophecy. *I used to hear him broadcast every night on the radio in the 1970s. Have you ever read this? The Lost Tribes of Israel

Sorry, my friend, but if you’re taking Armstrong’s writings from the 1970s seriously, you’ve been deceived. Badly.

Here are some other things Armstrong had to say:

Armstrong: “We know Bible prophecies definitely refer to Russia, Italy, Ethiopia, Libya, and Egypt of today. Could they then ignore modern nations like Britain and America? Is it reasonable?”

Russia? Do you have a Bible that refers to Russia? I own a eight different translations, with more on CD-ROM, and none of them refer to Russia.

Armstrong: “The fact is, the British and Americans are mentioned more often than any other race. Yet their prophetic identity has remained hidden to the many. The House of Israel is the ‘covenant people.’ The Hebrew word for ‘covenant’ is brit b’rith]. And the word for ‘covenant man,’ or ‘covenant people,’ would therefore sound, in English word order, Brit-ish (the word ish means ‘man’ in Hebrew, and it is also an English suffix on nouns and adjectives). And so, is it mere coincidence that the true covenant people today are called the ‘British’? And they reside in the ‘British Isles’!”

No linguist would take this seriously. The word “British” is not derived from Hebrew but from the Celtic word Brettas. It’s significant that the Celtic *Brettas *referred to the Britons, who were inhabitants of England before the arrival of the Anglo-Saxons that Armstrong claims were Israelites.

Armstrong: “If you take the name ‘Isaac,’ you see it’s easy for someone to drop the ‘I’ when speaking quickly and to end up with ‘Saac’ as the name of the patriarch. He had descendants, of course, and these may be called ‘Saac’s sons,’ from which we get the word ‘Saxons.’ Is it only coincidence that ‘Saxons’ sounds the same as ‘Saac’s sons’—sons of Isaac?”

This doesn’t even qualify as a coincidence, since Armstrong had to make up the nickname of “Saac” in order for the “coincidence” to exist. In reality, the term “Saxon” is derived from the Anglo-Saxon word “seax,” which means knife or dagger, not the Hebrew word “Isaac” (Yitskhaq), which means “laughter”

Armstrong: “By the year 721 B.C., the House of Israel was conquered and its people were soon driven out of their own land—out of their homes and cities—and carried captives to Assyria, near the southern shores of the Caspian Sea! … They refused to remain faithful and rebelled, they were to be punished seven times—a duration of 2,520 years—in slavery, servitude, and want.”

Armstrong theorizes that their punishment extended from 721 B.C. to A.D. 1800. And what remarkable thing happened in 1800? Well, besides the election of Thomas Jefferson to the presidency of the United States, not a whole lot. In fact, 1800 was a pretty dull year for history.

Armstrong: “The forty-ninth chapter of Isaiah begins with, ‘Listen, O isles, unto me.’ Take a map of Europe. Lay a line due northwest of Jerusalem across the continent of Europe, until you come to the sea, and then to the islands in the sea! This line takes you direct to the British Isles!”

That line first comes to the Aegean islands, which are also in the sea—the Mediterranean Sea—but this would mean the Greeks are the Lost Tribes, therefore, the theory would not play into the desires of some British or Americans to identify themselves with the lost tribes.

After Armstrong’s death, the Worldwide Church of God did a serious review of the doctrines it had taught up to that point and moved to a more biblically and theologically orthodox position. Many of their congregations still worship on Saturdays, for example, but they no longer regard keeping the Jewish Sabbath and feasts as points of doctrine. They have embraced the doctrine of the Trinity, denied that created beings can become part of the Godhead, and acknowledged that other churches contain true Christians.

My friend, have you also embraced these doctrines?
 
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