Confused

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thestickman

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I am a bit confused and would appreciate any guidance folks might have.

My wife (baptized Catholic, never recieved instruction, never Confirmed) and I (converting to Cathloicism) are both going thru annulment process. We’re accepting it’s going to be 2 to 3 yrs before they are finished and that there is a possibility they will be denied. We’ve been together for 8 years, married very happily for almost 7. We were drawn to the Church this year and while we accept the fact we will not be permitted to be Confirmed this Easter we are happy that our older teenager children will be.

Here’s where I’m confused. According to the Church, my wife and I are living in mortal sin. I ask our Deacon who’s handling our annulment fun from the parish end what we can expect to happen to our souls should we experience some untimely death before we can be confirmed into the Church. The Deacon tells me if we pray for forgiveness daily and continue to live the best life we know we will get to Heaven after a stay in Purgatory if we die before we are Confirmed into the Church.

How is this possible if, by us being in a our civily married state as we are, we’re considered by the Church to be committing adultery which is a mortal sin?

Does anyone else see the contradiction there or am I just imagining things?

PBWYA!
 
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thestickman:
I am a bit confused and would appreciate any guidance folks might have.

My wife (baptized Catholic, never recieved instruction, never Confirmed) and I (converting to Cathloicism) are both going thru annulment process. We’re accepting it’s going to be 2 to 3 yrs before they are finished and that there is a possibility they will be denied. We’ve been together for 8 years, married very happily for almost 7. We were drawn to the Church this year and while we accept the fact we will not be permitted to be Confirmed this Easter we are happy that our older teenager children will be.

Here’s where I’m confused. According to the Church, my wife and I are living in mortal sin. I ask our Deacon who’s handling our annulment fun from the parish end what we can expect to happen to our souls should we experience some untimely death before we can be confirmed into the Church. The Deacon tells me if we pray for forgiveness daily and continue to live the best life we know we will get to Heaven after a stay in Purgatory if we die before we are Confirmed into the Church.

How is this possible if, by us being in a our civily married state as we are, we’re considered by the Church to be committing adultery which is a mortal sin?

Does anyone else see the contradiction there or am I just imagining things?

PBWYA!
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Hard to say where he is coming from. Live together like Joseph and Mary (brother/sister relationship) until it’s straightened out. There is no sin in that.
 
I don’t know enough about that area to answer. I thought, however, that if someone repudiated the faith (your wife might possibly qualify, although that may be someone who was catechised and then leaves by a direct act) was not held to the standards of the faith. and you, not being Catholic are held to different standards.

On the other hand, given knowlege of the truth, one is required by conscience to follow it.

Conscience, in the end, is the final arbiter of how one makes their decisions. But conscience never acts in a vacuum; it must always be conscience seeking truth.

I suspect you may need to consult someone who is fairly well trained in moral theology to get a straight answer. It is too easy to glibly spit out an answer that covers the general but not the specific.

It depends on the facts of your case, how quickly you respond to any steps, the load at the tribunal, and other factors as to how long it takes to receive an answer. The range I have heard can be shorter.

God does not expect the impossible. It just seems that way at times.
 
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otm:
God does not expect the impossible. It just seems that way at times.
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Amen to that! 👍

It is possible that the deacon perhaps was trying to be kind while not representing the true teachings. However, you have shown by your question, that you know the truth in your soul. That is the Natural Law and Spirit of God within you. Heed that voice within in you.

I presume that the Deacon didn’t want to ask you and your wife to live as brother and sister. It is not an easy teaching. but other couples have done it and survived.

Although, I am not one of those people, I can only attest to the power of prayer and true, devoted love of God that wants to bless you fully and forever with eternal life in Heaven.

You are doing the right thing in asking, even though you probably don’t like the answer. Theresa of Avila had a wry sense of humor and said, “Lord, if this is how you treat your friends, it is no wonder you have so few friends” or something like that.:o
 
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Marie:
Hard to say where he is coming from. Live together like Joseph and Mary (brother/sister relationship) until it’s straightened out. There is no sin in that.
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I think that would be a good idea.

Even living as brother and sister, I think it would be alright to give each other friendly kisses or hugs or to hold hands. This is just my opinion; I’m not an expert.
 
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Marie:
Hard to say where he is coming from. Live together like Joseph and Mary (brother/sister relationship) until it’s straightened out. There is no sin in that.
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Thats the only answer that I know, the annulment process usually takes about 1 and a half years max. I have never heard three years. But if you go to confession sleep in seperate rooms then you won’t have to worry about dying and going to purgatory or worse.
 
Remember what an annulment is. It is a judgment that you were not, in fact, married in the eyes of God although perhaps you were considered married in the view of our society.

Do you believe you have grounds for an annulment for both you and your spouse? I hope you do, cuz if you don’t then it will be difficult to convince the Church. If you do, then I presume that it is your opinion that you were not in fact married in the eyes of God prior to your marriage with your current spouse. If this is what you believe, then how is your marriage with your current spouse a mortal sin?

You are awaiting a judgment of the Church. If in your conscious you know what that judgment ought to be (while the Church is still pondering the evidence of your case), then your sin is not mortal.

A mortal sin requires full consciousness of the gravity of your sin, as well as full participation of your will. I suggest that you don’t truly have full consciousness that what you are doing with your current wife is adultery. If you do, you have greater problems then just awaiting an annulment. 😉
 
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Toni:
Thats the only answer that I know, the annulment process usually takes about 1 and a half years max. I have never heard three years. But if you go to confession sleep in seperate rooms then you won’t have to worry about dying and going to purgatory or worse.
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Since he is not Catholic, he can’t go to confession.

Going to purgatory certainly should not be viewed as a bad thing!

Worse is… :cool:
 
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itsjustdave1988:
Remember what an annulment is. It is a judgment that you were not, in fact, married in the eyes of God although perhaps you were considered married in the view of our society.

Do you believe you have grounds for an annulment for both you and your spouse? I hope you do, cuz if you don’t then it will be difficult to convince the Church. If you do, then I presume that it is your opinion that you were not in fact married in the eyes of God prior to your marriage with your current spouse. If this is what you believe, then how is your marriage with your current spouse a mortal sin?

You are awaiting a judgment of the Church. If in your conscious you know what that judgment ought to be (while the Church is still pondering the evidence of your case), then your sin is not mortal.

A mortal sin requires full consciousness of the gravity of your sin, as well as full participation of your will. I suggest that you don’t truly have full consciousness that what you are doing with your current wife is adultery. If you do, you have greater problems then just awaiting an annulment. 😉
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Thanks for your reply and the reply of everyone.

I’ve never thought we were in fact, committing adultery. I’ve always felt like our marriage has been Blessed by God, primarily because we are very happy together and good things keep happening to us in so many ways that really matter to us and aren’t of a material nature. With our 1st failed marriages behind us we’ve both done our best to make sure old mistakes haven’t been repeated. I’ve thanked God every night since we became a couple for sending her to me. Without going into a lot of dirty laundry–I’d be dead without her.

My 1st marriage was a Christ-less marriage and I was a terrible husband who suffered, untreated from an illness which certainly affected my judgement and the manner in which I made decisions at that time and beyond. I feel confident, based on what I’ve read to date my 1st marriage can be annuled under a defect of consent. My wife’s 1st marriage seems to be invalid on a cuple of different grounds–but we just don’t know yet.

My annulment process has proceeded to the point where the Judge in the Tribunal has sent me a more detailed questionaire, so we passed step #1 in that regard. There were some errors in which form to fill out in my wife’s case and 4 months were wasted. Her inital questionaire has yet to find it’s way to the Tribunal. It’s all been very frustrating at times, to be sure.

I’ve been told my hunger for the Eucharist is a blessing and that this waiting period is a gift of sorts. Admittedly, being new to the Faith and having barely scratched the surface in studying the CCC and such–I can’t say that I feel blessed in that regard at this moment. Learning we can’t be Confirmed into the Church with our children was devestating. Adding the contradictory things I was told yesterday regarding the status of our souls and were not feeling too positive about it all at the moment.

We will, if it takes 10 years to get through this, endure and continue praying and attending Mass. I just never imagined running into the endless hurdles we seem to have before us so we can participate in the Lamb’s Supper.

Peace be with you all:)
 
Could someone please explain to me why they would need to get annulments? As I read it, the wife was only baptized Catholic but it never went any further than that (and yes I understand that’s all it takes to make one officially Catholic) but unless she married someone who was also Catholic in the Catholic Church I thought her marriage isn’t sacramental anyhow. He said he is converting to the Catholic faith so his first marriage wouldn’t be sacremental either would it?? Please help me understand this…
 
carol marie:
Could someone please explain to me why they would need to get annulments? As I read it, the wife was only baptized Catholic but it never went any further than that (and yes I understand that’s all it takes to make one officially Catholic) but unless she married someone who was also Catholic in the Catholic Church I thought her marriage isn’t sacramental anyhow. He said he is converting to the Catholic faith so his first marriage wouldn’t be sacremental either would it?? Please help me understand this…
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The church recognizes weddings performed in other churches as valid unless proven otherwise. When I got married, I hadn’t yet converted. The church still agreed to marry us and we have a valid marriage.

Even the marriage between 2 non-Catholic christians would be considered valid unless shown otherwise.
 
I think you can go to confession even if you are not Catholic as long as you believe in confession. I think this would especially be true of those who are on their way towards becoming Catholics.
 
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SusanL:
The church recognizes weddings performed in other churches as valid unless proven otherwise. When I got married, I hadn’t yet converted. The church still agreed to marry us and we have a valid marriage.

Even the marriage between 2 non-Catholic christians would be considered valid unless shown otherwise.
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Ok, but what about people who get married by the justice of the peace. Is that a valid marriage? YIKES, I start RCIA tomorrow and my future hinges on this answer! I was baptized Catholic but never taken to church again. i got married to a non-Catholic as a teenager by a justice of the peace. That marriage ended in divorce shortly thereafter and I’ve never given it another thought. Would I actually have to find my ex and get our marriage annulled? SAY IT ISN’T SO!!!
 
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SusanL:
The church recognizes weddings performed in other churches as valid unless proven otherwise. When I got married, I hadn’t yet converted. The church still agreed to marry us and we have a valid marriage.

Even the marriage between 2 non-Catholic christians would be considered valid unless shown otherwise.
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Ok, but what about people who get married by the justice of the peace. Is that a valid marriage? YIKES, I start RCIA tomorrow and my future hinges on this answer! I was baptized Catholic but never taken to church again. i got married to a non-Catholic as a teenager by a justice of the peace. That marriage ended in divorce shortly thereafter and I’ve never given it another thought. Would I actually have to find my ex and get our marriage annulled? SAY IT ISN’T SO!!!
 
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tuopaolo:
I think you can go to confession even if you are not Catholic as long as you believe in confession. I think this would especially be true of those who are on their way towards becoming Catholics.
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Hmmmm… I don’t think so, unless there’s danger of death in accordance with canon 844, §4.

Can. 844 §1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in §§2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2.

§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.
 
Would I actually have to find my ex and get our marriage annulled? SAY IT ISN’T SO!!!
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Sorry, but it is so. You need to seek an annulment. Some of our candidates were able to complete this process within the year-long RCIA process. Others, unfortunately, went through RCIA but had to wait for their annulment prior to receiving confirmation.
 
Are you serious? Can someone back me up here? I thought that it wasn’t a valid marriage to begin with since we never stood and promised before God to stay together. Heck, we were teenagers wanting to shock our parents! (it worked) I’m thinking you’re wrong (no offense) Opnions, anyone else please???!
 
P.S. We weren’t even Christians. He was never baptized and doesn’t even believe in God. Soooooooo not sacremental.
 
I’m not saying it was valid. However, the Church presumes all marriages, even merely civil marriages, to be valid unless judged otherwise by a tribunal. According to canon law, “the validity of a marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.” (Can. 1060).

My advise is to speak to your pastor. He is abundantly more knowledgeable about canon law than I am.
 
Hi Carol Marie,

Wow, I hadn’t realized you fell into this category. Yes, it is so! When I was younger, I renounced my Catholic Heritage and converted to Judiasm to marry a Jewish husband, in a Jewish ceremony.

He divorced me shortly after, we got a Jewish Gett (similar to an annulment, but through the Rabbinic Court). I eventually remarried (justice of the Peace, my mom was dying and I didn’t want to wait 6th months for the Pre-cana process, didn’t even know about the annulment problems).

I have had to have that marriage annulled (which I am happy to say I did). I can tell you that I DREADED it. I dragged my feet for a year, getting the information together. What’s weird is that when I received it, I was AMAZED at how much better I felt. I did not expect anything, I was simply doing it out of obedience to the church, even though I kinda thought it was silly. But when it was done, I felt as though someone had lifted a ton of bricks off my back.

And yes, the church would require that such a couple live as brother and sister in such a situation, although you won’t always find a deacon or even priest who is willing to state this difficult truth clearly, for fear of “offending”.

It can be done, and it demonstates your love for one another that is not based on physical attraction and is an opportunity to reconnect with the true meaning of marital intimacy and the graces that come from Chastity. This provides an amazing opportunity to learn how to teach your children about the true meaning of Chastity. You’ll understand it on a level you never before comprehended.

God Bless.

CARose
 
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