Confusing Marriage Situation

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Alright well, this is quite a unique situation so I was hoping to get some opinions here. Well, I have been dating my girlfriend for approximately 3 years, although there were times when we were on and off so to say. Either way, we have been together for quite some time and doing very well and we want to get married. This is where the problem starts haha.

Okay well first of all, I am living in a foreign country in Asia, I was born in the US. So I am a Catholic and she is sort of an agnostic/buddhist. Well, that is what she grew up into, her whole family is that way and I really feel she would probably fall into the invincible ignorance bracket but of course I am trying to slowly bring Jesus into her life which will take time. Anyway, that isn’t the problem because she knows about my faith and about what is necessary for me to do regarding my religion and future family, etc. At first it was a little rough because she couldn’t understand things like being celibate, not living together, etc. but we have worked past all of that.

So here is where the problem starts. (sorry for the long post) We want to marry soon as we have been together for a long time and we are fully ready to take our relationship to that place and are ready to be married. She agreed that we could marry in a Catholic Church as long as we had a separate ceremony at a later time (most likely next year) that her family, extended family, friends, etc. could attend. The reason being that they wont want to come to a Church (well some will, but it will be a small number) The problem is not with her, its with my mother hahaha.

Anyway, I know how my mother is, she is a difficult woman to deal with. I love and respect her very much but the truth is I am very different from my parents and unfortunately it is very hard for them to accept that I guess. So I mentioned to my mother that we were discussing getting married and we would have to do it here. Actually it just isn’t feasible to get married in the U.S. as I don’t know exactly when I will return there, maybe the end of next year but I am not 100% certain. Also, we just don’t have the money or opportunity to marry in the U.S. Marrying in the U.S. is expensive and we would have to buy plane tickets, etc. It just isn’t something that can be easily done and may in fact just not be possible without extreme hardship for my girlfriend and I. My parents refuse to come to here so thats out of the question. So I figured we could have some kind of wedding celebration at the end of next year for my family to attend. Well basically she got angry and started arguing with me, really I didn’t want to argue with her and I tried to tell her to try to understand me and that she was acting sort of selfishly. It did get a little heated even though I did not want that but it is really hard to not get angry when someone is yelling at you. Look, I know she is my mother and of course she wants to be at my wedding but I need to think of what is best and I just don’t think we can do it any other way which prompted her to just say to do whatever I want, she doesn’t care, she doesn’t want anything to do with it.

It is a difficult situation for me because I want to respect my mother but I just don’t see how I can do it any other way. To be perfectly honest, if I were to have a wedding in the U.S. I would probably have to wait another 2 years of saving up money and planning from a long distance to get everything ready. My girlfriend wants a relatively nice wedding of course, as any woman does and she deserves something decent. I am not talking about luxurious here but a normal decent wedding. Of course someone can have just a real cheap wedding but that isn’t how I want to start my life with someone, and even that way it would still get expensive with airplane fare, etc. I can afford something good for her here in the country I am in as it is much cheaper as salaries are much lower and also we don’t want to wait another 2 years to get married. I also might end up deciding to live here permanently, that wont go well with my mother I am sure but I am an adult now and I need to make decisions for my self and for my own future family.

Anyone have any good advice?
 
So here is where the problem starts. (sorry for the long post) We want to marry soon as we have been together for a long time and we are fully ready to take our relationship to that place and are ready to be married. She agreed that we could marry in a Catholic Church as long as we had a separate ceremony at a later time (most likely next year) that her family, extended family, friends, etc. could attend. The reason being that they wont want to come to a Church (well some will, but it will be a small number) The problem is not with her, its with my mother hahaha.
?
my advice to a Catholic contemplating marriage is to contact your priest immediately and update your own knowledge on the laws of the Church regarding marriage. Every single person on these forums, almost without exception, who has posed this same question (ie. Catholic planning marriage to a non-Catholic or non-Christian wondering about 2 ceremonies) exhibits little to no knowledge of Catholic teaching on marriage. You owe it to yourself to remedy that lack, before you make promises you cannot keep. NO you cannot have 2 ceremonies. Your choice is to abandon your faith, and let your fiancee’s mother make the rules for you in this and for the rest of your life, or to live your faith and put obedience to God’s commandments as your top priority.

My second bit of advice is to search these forums for all those discussions of people in inter-faith marriages to see the problems they have encountered, and to learn from their experience.\

my third bit of advice is for anyone contemplating marriage. leave off planning for the wedding until you have planned for the marriage. Discern separately your vocations in life, and together discern God’s plan for you and whether marriage is the way to pursue that plan. Plan a future, with the practical aspects – money, children, where to work and live etc.–and the spiritual aspects–headship in the family, faith and spirituality etc.

There is not one tiny bit of need for a wedding blow out or to have duelling mothers involved.
 
Eh? Hmm, maybe you have misunderstood. There is no issue with dueling mothers. My mother wants me to marry in the US and it isn’t feasible. There is no argument whatsoever between my mother and hers. No offense intended, but did you even read what I said? I also said nothing of abandoning my faith. I said I was going to get married in the Church first and then have a secular ceremony, which is basically just for show, no priest involved for her family to come and celebrate. The Church only recognizes a valid marriage as being performed by a priest and for the most part within a church although there may be some exceptions regarding this. The Church does not recognize any kind of secular ceremonies, which have no religious affiliations whatsoever so please tell me what is the issue? I will have already been married in a Church first following all of the rules of my faith and no I am not converting to another religion. We are also in the discussion phase and will soon meet with a priest to talk about these issues, also remember I am in a foreign country. Not every country has the same rules and guidelines for everything.

Now I may not be right with everything, but please do not assume I don’t know what I am doing, even if I make some mistakes. Your post seems to think I am some naive person rushing into marriage. I also did not ask for advice on my wedding but on the situation with my mother. I will talk to a priest about my marriage situation.

I also understand the difficulties in marriages between Catholics/non-Christians, I know I need special dispensation, etc. None of that was what my initial post was about. Basically what I was asking was that in my particular situation with my mother, I am trying to respect her as is my duty as her son but does respect mean having to acquiesce to her demands or should I follow what I think is best?
 
I do understand that it is your mother you are dealing with.

I agree totally with the advice about consulting your priest, about all aspects of this situation. If he doesn’t tell you exactly what you want to hear, don’t go to another priest or any person hoping to hear something different. (I see people do this sort of thing all the time.)

In addition to meeting with your priest, I hope you are spending lots of time in prayer. Make the most of all the Heavenly resources that are available to you.

I also agree with the advice that after the wedding, comes the marriage.

My husband and I married 25 years ago in the Protestant church. Now I am becoming a Catholic. Even though we are both Christians, it takes a lot of respect and forbearance to keep peace in the house. I’ve probably bitten my tongue enough times that there are teeth marks in it. How much more so, a marriage between a Christian and a non-Christian. It’s something to think about.

It is always well said, never marry someone thinking that you will change them, or that somehow they will become something other than what they are.

I wish you God’s best.

Grace and peace to you,

Luminous Hope
 
Canon law states that a Catholic cannot have two weddings, does not matter if the second is secular or athiest or buddist or amish or even Catholic, can’t happen. Your Priest can give you the exact citation, or you can google it up.

You can have a “blessing of the couple” and reception for your mom in the US.
 
Some canon laws for you to look at-

Canon 1118.3 A marriage between a catholic party and an unbaptised party may be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place.

Canon 1127.3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with 1127.1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.

Make sure whatever this other ceremony you are planning to have is not religious in any way nor does it involve taking vows. You cannot take any vows after you take yours in the Catholic rite of marriage.

Can. 1086 §1. A marriage between two persons, one of whom has been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it and has not defected from it by a formal act and the other of whom is not baptized, is invalid.

You will of course need to get a dispensation for this one.

I guess I would offer to pay for your parents to come to you for the wedding and if they decline then say “Oh We will really miss having you.” You are an adult able to make decisions. You are leaving your family and cleaving to your wife with a marriage even if it is not a Sacrament. I guess just be prepared to stand up for your wife if you do come stateside and live anywhere near your Mother. You could offer for her to plan a US party as a consolation prize. Just decide in advance what you will pay and be firm.
 
I agree with the suggestion of asking your parents to travel to where you are for the wedding. Then, if you do move back here, your mom can arrange a reception or something.
 
Well, thanks for the posts. I understand the difficulties of marriage and appreciate the advice given. It is definitely not wrong to hope for the conversion of someone that you love. I don’t expect that she will convert but I hope so some day. Either way, she is aware that our children must be raised Catholic and has agreed already. My mother already made it clear she would not come to here. Actually she is afraid to fly for long periods of time and this is as far as you can go basically.

I am reading the Canon laws and as mentioned I saw this but it isn’t quite clear:

“Canon 1127.3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with 1127.1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.”

So what does that mean exactly?
 
Canon law states that a Catholic cannot have two weddings, does not matter if the second is secular or athiest or buddist or amish or even Catholic, can’t happen. Your Priest can give you the exact citation, or you can google it up.

You can have a “blessing of the couple” and reception for your mom in the US.
Well, from reading the Canon law, it is not very clear on that because it states this:

“Canon 1127.3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with 1127.1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.”

It says religious celebrations, obviously something secular is not religious. So it is not so clear as you state. Now I could be wrong about that but they should have worded it differently.
 
Eh? Hmm, maybe you have misunderstood. There is no issue with dueling mothers. My mother wants me to marry in the US and it isn’t feasible. There is no argument whatsoever between my mother and hers. No offense intended, but did you even read what I said? I also said nothing of abandoning my faith. I said I was going to get married in the Church first and then have a secular ceremony, which is basically just for show, no priest involved for her family to come and celebrate. The Church only recognizes a valid marriage as being performed by a priest and for the most part within a church although there may be some exceptions regarding this. The Church does not recognize any kind of secular ceremonies, which have no religious affiliations whatsoever so please tell me what is the issue? I will have already been married in a Church first following all of the rules of my faith and no I am not converting to another religion. We are also in the discussion phase and will soon meet with a priest to talk about these issues, also remember I am in a foreign country. Not every country has the same rules and guidelines for everything.

Now I may not be right with everything, but please do not assume I don’t know what I am doing, even if I make some mistakes. Your post seems to think I am some naive person rushing into marriage. I also did not ask for advice on my wedding but on the situation with my mother. I will talk to a priest about my marriage situation.

I also understand the difficulties in marriages between Catholics/non-Christians, I know I need special dispensation, etc. None of that was what my initial post was about. Basically what I was asking was that in my particular situation with my mother, I am trying to respect her as is my duty as her son but does respect mean having to acquiesce to her demands or should I follow what I think is best?
Something I have noticed on this forum: you can start a thread, but then you can’t control where it goes. I think your question is pretty clear, but if other people want to answer a different question than the one you asked, well, that’s life on the internet.

My advice would be to communicate as well and as lovingly as you possibly can with your mother, but if you are quite sure that you are right to take the very adult step of getting married, you need to make major decisions regarding when and where with your wife-to-be.
 
Means you can’t have two wedding ceremonies. Also, you can’t mix-and-match ministers within your single wedding ceremony; you’ve got to get married inside the Church our outside it.

I always, always, always advise against interfaith marriages, for so many reasons (it is never as easy as it looks, and the intended status quo, for better or for worse, never holds), but it is ultimately your decision. Get your dispensation and then make sure you have one and only one wedding ceremony.

Disclaimer: I Am Not A Canon Lawyer. Though I know one.
 
What are the laws concerning marriage in the country where you reside? My son lived and was married in Germany. It was required by the state that he have a civil ceremony in front of a magistrate. After that he was married the next day in a Catholic ceremony which was considered properly by him as the real mariage, but not by the state.

You are an adult resident in another country and coming back to the states for a wedding will be a logistical nightmare. Do it there with whomever can come and throw a party in the US when you have the opportunity.

As for the disparity of cult between you and you intended, you will need a dispensation from the Church to marry her. These “mixed marriages” sometimes work well, but just as many turn out to be total disasters. Don’t say you weren’t warned. 🙂
 
Well, from reading the Canon law, it is not very clear on that because it states this:

“Canon 1127.3 It is forbidden to have, either before or after the canonical celebration in accordance with 1127.1, another religious celebration of the same marriage for the purpose of giving or renewing matrimonial consent. Likewise, there is not to be a religious celebration in which the catholic assistant and a non-catholic minister, each performing his own rite, ask for the consent of the parties.”

It says religious celebrations, obviously something secular is not religious. So it is not so clear as you state. Now I could be wrong about that but they should have worded it differently.
It means you cannot exchange vows a second time. Your vows in the Catholic approved ceremony are the ones that make the marriage. You cannot take them again and make it look like a wedding ceremony.You cannot exchange consent again. So your second event for her family should be more like a “blessing” or just a celebration. You can’t do some type of buddist( sorry for my ignorance ) ceremony if it involves vows. Not sure what you envisioned. You could always check with your priest to make sure on the details.
 
I read OP three times and it still sounds like two families have conflicting views on this matter
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=336686
the title of this thread, on the proper forum if you say your issue is with your mother, is titled “it is dangerous to ask marriage advice on CAF” to which I heartily agree

have the goodness not to solicit advice if your reaction is going to be to take umbrage at well meaning people who are doing their best to decifer a confusing account and answer what they take to be your underlying question.

you say you have a problem with your mother, but related details of an argument with your fiancee. forgive me if I am confused. since you say you do know what you are doing, I take that to mean you don’t need advice, and so will not welcome any more. I will pray for your happiness.
 
Like I said, the argument was between my mother and I, not between anyone else. Also, I only mentioned to my mother we were talking about getting married and what our plans would be.

puzzleannie, I might not have been as specific in my original question as I wanted to be but nonetheless, the question I asked was supposed to be specifically about one issue, not others. If I was unclear, than that is my fault and I apologize but I only provided other background information to set the tone because I felt it was necessary to get my point across. Most people don’t like to receive advice on issues they are not asking advice for. For example, I feel it is a little smug not to be considerate that a person might full well know what he or she is getting themselves into. I know it wont be easy for her and I, what we are getting into is a big thing, I know and I only want to do the right thing for her and my faith. Of course God is most important but I feel that God wants me to be with her based on my experiences which are a private matter. I just felt you were trying to discourage me without knowing about us and also thought I was walking into something I was unprepared for.

If that is not the case and I am misunderstanding you than I apologize. I also thank you for your concern regardless. I am sorry if I come off as rude, that is not my intention and I am grateful for any help given.
 
What are the laws concerning marriage in the country where you reside? My son lived and was married in Germany. It was required by the state that he have a civil ceremony in front of a magistrate. After that he was married the next day in a Catholic ceremony which was considered properly by him as the real mariage, but not by the state.

You are an adult resident in another country and coming back to the states for a wedding will be a logistical nightmare. Do it there with whomever can come and throw a party in the US when you have the opportunity.

As for the disparity of cult between you and you intended, you will need a dispensation from the Church to marry her. These “mixed marriages” sometimes work well, but just as many turn out to be total disasters. Don’t say you weren’t warned. 🙂
Well then, now what you say is interesting. Your son was allowed to have a civil ceremony and a Catholic ceremony. This is why I thought the laws of a country and such might affect the situation. The country I am in is a lot different from the U.S. and it may be that something like that would be allowed given the circumstances. Either way, this is something I will find out when I meet with my priest. Well actually my girlfriend will have to ask all the questions because my priest can’t even speak English and I don’t speak the native language.
 
Well, I spoke with my priest and he told me that it would be fine for me to have a Catholic Ceremony (Sacrament of Marriage) in a church and to have a civil ceremony at a wedding hall afterwards (where all non Catholics marry in this country.) He said as long as it isn’t a religious ceremony with a priest or something, it is fine.
 
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