Confusion as Spokane bishop asks priests not to join 40 Days for Life vigils

[ishii]

Confusion as Spokane bishop asks priests not to join 40 Days for Life vigils

lifesitenews.com/news/confusion-as-spokane-bishop-asks-priests-not-to-join-40-days-for-life-vigil

Since when is praying anywhere against the Majesterium of the Church ?

Bishops are not immune to sin, or supporting wrong causes. Pray for them.

This Bishop has much work to do regarding educating Catholics in his Diocese since some voted for euthanasia.
blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/11/05/washington-passes-initiative-1000-legalizing-physician-assisted-suicide/

If you want confusion, look no further than the archdiocese of Seattle and L.A. In Seattle, none other than the pro-abortion catholic governor was invited to speak at an archdiocese event. I wrote a letter to the (now recently retired) archbishop protesting this. He wrote me back - saying essentially, " the governor is a strong advocate for the rights of the poor and will not be speaking on this topic of abortion." blah blah blah. He was totally rationalizing this. This was an Emily’s List, pro-abortion governor, welcomed to a diocesan event. Its no wonder so many catholics can’t figure out that its wrong to vote for the pro-abortion candidate. There is no leadership at the top, and the bureaucracy/administration in the northwest is totally staffed by pro-Democrat liberals. In L.A. the champion of infanticide - Barbara Boxer was given a platform to campaign at an event on diocese grounds. I am sure that the excuse would have been, “but she is really strong on poverty and minority rights issues.”

So it is not surprising that there is confusion in the state of Washington. We recently had two gubernatorial elections that pitted two catholics against each other - one pro-abortion and the other pro-life. Of course, the pro-abortion won with plenty of votes from liberal catholics.

Ishii

 

[wynnejj]

I’m pretty sure mandating penalties does not imply that legal remedies must necessarily be the main strategy.

I don’t understand how you can construe CCC 2273 to mean anything other than
the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights."81

 

[gakroeger]

If you want confusion, look no further than the archdiocese of Seattle and L.A. In Seattle, none other than the pro-abortion catholic governor was invited to speak at an archdiocese event. I wrote a letter to the (now recently retired) archbishop protesting this. He wrote me back - saying essentially, " the governor is a strong advocate for the rights of the poor and will not be speaking on this topic of abortion." blah blah blah. He was totally rationalizing this. This was an Emily’s List, pro-abortion governor, welcomed to a diocesan event. Its no wonder so many catholics can’t figure out that its wrong to vote for the pro-abortion candidate. There is no leadership at the top, and the bureaucracy/administration in the northwest is totally staffed by pro-Democrat liberals. In L.A. the champion of infanticide - Barbara Boxer was given a platform to campaign at an event on diocese grounds. I am sure that the excuse would have been, “but she is really strong on poverty and minority rights issues.”

So it is not surprising that there is confusion in the state of Washington. We recently had two gubernatorial elections that pitted two catholics against each other - one pro-abortion and the other pro-life. Of course, the pro-abortion won with plenty of votes from liberal catholics.

Ishii

The good archbishop (like many others) has fallen into the trap of placing the ideology of the left above Church teaching. Even if the pro abortion governor was acting with a pure heart in his perported help for the poor; the killing of the unborn trumps his help for the poor. AND, I am sure that this governor just like the others of this ideology have no love for the poor, they are interested only in keeping them subserviant to the government and securing their vote forever.

 

[gakroeger]

I see you keep trying to make this about politics…how has that worked out so far in ending abortion?

I am not the one here attempting to justify my vote. Unfortunately, our political parties have made this a political issue even though it has nothing to do with politics. It is a moral issue and to help anyone continue the killing of our most innocent regardless of their politics is a serious matter no matter how much they attempt to rationalize it. And, regardless of the rationalization a vote for a pro-abortion politician is helping to kill our unborn. As long as a politician believes it is an advantage to be pro-abortion they will remain pro-abortion. Once this becomes a disadvantage (which is slowing happening) watch how quickly they change their spots.

 

[seekerz]

I don’t understand how you can construe CCC 2273 to mean anything other than
the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions.

Which of your bolded words indicate that the main strategy against abortion must be legal? I have no problem with laws against abortion, I’m simply interested in doing things that are more effective and nothing in your quotes makes that attitude wrong.

 

[seekerz]

I am not the one here attempting to justify my vote. Unfortunately, our political parties have made this a political issue even though it has nothing to do with politics. It is a moral issue and to help anyone continue the killing of our most innocent regardless of their politics is a serious matter no matter how much they attempt to rationalize it. And, regardless of the rationalization a vote for a pro-abortion politician is helping to kill our unborn. As long as a politician believes it is an advantage to be pro-abortion they will remain pro-abortion. Once this becomes a disadvantage (which is slowing happening) watch how quickly they change their spots.

Thanks for reading my mind and my private voting choices. Thanks also for making my point for me so superbly: for politicians, abortion stance is a matter of political expediency and considering the history of this particular political football, the majority wouldn’t have it any other way…

 

[gakroeger]

Thanks for reading my mind and my private voting choices. Thanks also for making my point for me so superbly: for politicians, abortion stance is a matter of political expediency and considering the history of this particular political football, the majority wouldn’t have it any other way…

Reading your mind on this issue was indeed very easy. Yes, it has been made a political football, that does not mean it has ceased being a moral issue and one of the highest consequence.

 

[seekerz]

Reading your mind on this issue was indeed very easy. Yes, it has been made a political football, that does not mean it has ceased being a moral issue and one of the highest consequence.

Maybe you can ask God to forgive you for ascribing to me actions that I never performed (i.e. voting for a pro-abortion candidate; not that I am a single-issue Catholic by any means).

When you’re done, it would be great if you could help me understand why, in light of the great importance of this moral issue (of “highest consequence”, to use your words), the best strategy to pursue would be dependent on politicians? Since I have been on this forum, I cannot count the number of posts in which the government (which to my knowledge is led by politicians) has been accused of being incompetent and a hindrance to just about any pursuit…

 

[wynnejj]

I see only one tonic for fighting the war on abortion.

What the abortion issue needs is an identifiable religious group of people who lead by example … Catholics … as a block of people with a uniform, consistent proper behaviour in their sexual morality, promoting chastity and fighting politically against the marketing of pornography, fighting politically against the organizations that promote promiscuity in the guise of family planning with patently unhealthy solutions for women, and fighting politically for the proper definition of marriage. It needs Catholics with a consistent, correct view - in their personal behaviour and in the voting patterns.

Catholics must work to outlaw all abortion with no exceptions and the sale of all abortifacient birth control as the abominable crimes that they are.

Catholic education must promote chastity education with abstinence and NFP training as mandatory sex education as the only clear & consistent acceptable means of practicing responsible parenthood.

Catholic education must promote a clear understanding that all forms of masturbation are a grave sin, including those with partners in or out of marriage, which is what contraception and homosexual relations are.

Catholic education on sexual morality must be taught in an age appropriate way at all educational venues, which includes all formal Catholic schools, CCD instruction, RCIA instruction and most importantly on the Sunday pulpit in outline form as to what is mortally sinful and must be confessed before presenting yourself at the altar for Holy Communion.

Most importantly, we must pray constantly privately, as well as publicly by offering up prayer petitions for our conversion to sexual morality with regular Sunday Mass prayer petitions. That is, we must pray for the changing of the hearts & minds of Catholics first.

The clergy must end the confusion and give us a uniform, clear, consistent message and lay Catholics must live the message and lead the world by example.

All the rest, changing the hearts & minds of non-Catholics is ineffective** if those groups do not have Catholics to show them the way by example.

 

[gakroeger]

I see only one tonic for fighting the war on abortion.

What the abortion issue needs is an identifiable religious group of people who lead by example … Catholics … as a block of people with a uniform, consistent proper behaviour in their sexual morality, promoting chastity and fighting politically against the marketing of pornography, fighting politically against the organizations that promote promiscuity in the guise of family planning with patently unhealthy solutions for women, and fighting politically for the proper definition of marriage. It needs Catholics with a consistent, correct view - in their personal behaviour and in the voting patterns.

Catholics must work to outlaw all abortion with no exceptions and the sale of all abortifacient birth control as the abominable crimes that they are.

Catholic education must promote chastity education with abstinence and NFP training as mandatory sex education as the only clear & consistent acceptable means of practicing responsible parenthood.

Catholic education must promote a clear understanding that all forms of masturbation are a grave sin, including those with partners in or out of marriage, which is what contraception and homosexual relations are.

Catholic education on sexual morality must be taught in an age appropriate way at all educational venues, which includes all formal Catholic schools, CCD instruction, RCIA instruction and most importantly on the Sunday pulpit in outline form as to what is mortally sinful and must be confessed before presenting yourself at the altar for Holy Communion.

Most importantly, we must pray constantly privately, as well as publicly by offering up prayer petitions for our conversion to sexual morality with regular Sunday Mass prayer petitions. That is, we must pray for the changing of the hearts & minds of Catholics first.

The clergy must end the confusion and give us a uniform, clear, consistent message and lay Catholics must live the message and lead the world by example.

All the rest, changing the hearts & minds of non-Catholics is ineffective** if those groups do not have Catholics to show them the way by example.

A well defined mission statement. Now if we could get ALL Catholics to buy in what a wonderful world it would be.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

40 Days for Life has been extremely successful in its short time of existence.

What started in 2004, in a little college town in Texas, has now been the catalyst for at least 2 MAJOR employees of Planned Parenthood to leave their positions and begin working on behalf of the unborn. One of whom is Abby Johnston, who was to have become the Director of the regional Planned Parenthood headquarters here in Houston, but who quit and converted after seeing an ultrasound abortion performed. So far, 53 abortion clinic workers THAT WE KNOW OF have left their jobs. This strikes fear in the hearts of the abortion provider - because these people talk to their friends about what an abortion clinic really is. 14 abortion facilities have ** completely shut down** following local 40 Days for Life campaigns!!! Praise GOD for his mercies!

40 Days is a wholly Catholic and wholly reverent approach to the women and men who are abortion-minded. That is one reason I am saddened by this Bishop asking priests and seminarians to refrain from joining the prayer vigil.

We see Catholics walk into the clinics as employees and clients EVERY DAY. I personally have witnessed many clients drive into the parking lot with a ROSARY hanging from the rear view mirror. You don’t think seeing a priest in robes and a collar, praying visibly out in front, would prick the hearts of these people and cause them to consider more seriously what they are doing? It is EXTREMELY powerful for religious to show up and help us pray!!! It is probably THE MOST powerful and Satan absolutely HATES IT and will do everything in his power to subvert it!! The absolute best would be for MANY priests to come at the same time and have throngs of the faithful around them. Numbers and the collars would get results. Babies would be saved, and the clinics’ bottom dollar would be greatly reduced.

But day after day, the Church turns a blind eye toward the tiny ones who will lose their life before even drawing one breath. Sadly, where I am, there are sometimes more Lutherans on the sidewalk than there are Catholics. Yes, we do the MOST pro-life work overall, but given the small numbers, that’s rather a weak compliment.

 

[ishii]

Maybe you can ask God to forgive you for ascribing to me actions that I never performed (i.e. voting for a pro-abortion candidate; not that I am a single-issue Catholic by any means).

When you’re done, it would be great if you could help me understand why, in light of the great importance of this moral issue (of “highest consequence”, to use your words), the best strategy to pursue would be dependent on politicians? Since I have been on this forum, I cannot count the number of posts in which the government (which to my knowledge is led by politicians) has been accused of being incompetent and a hindrance to just about any pursuit…

The thing is, your arguments are easily used by some catholics to justify their voting for pro-abortion politicians. They say, “what’s the use, no politicians have outlawed abortion in forty years, so we need to address it other ways - like funding programs for unwed mothers, sex education in school, etc.” They also often say, " the so-called pro-life politicians don’t want to outlaw abortion, they just want the votes." So its easy to go from “it doesn’t matter who we vote for- abortion will remain legal” to “I can vote for Barbara Boxer even though she is pro-abortion because abortion will never be outlawed anyway and what’s more Boxer supports all the liberal issues that I support.” That is how liberal catholics justify their support for pro-abortion politicians. Notice how I say, “some catholics” and not “seekerz” so don’t accuse me of assuming how you vote.

The last point you made is a strawman: the idea that conservatives distrust the effectiveness of government so we are hypocrites for wanting the government to outlaw abortion. Unless you’re talking about extreme libertarians or anarchists, this idea is nonsense. Last I checked the civil rights of blacks was strengthened by politicians passing the civil rights act. Sometimes they get it right. Politicians gave us Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas. The problem is when catholics vote for the wrong politicians - the pro-abortion ones.

Ishii

 

[TheRealJuliane]

For Pastors:

This was filmed at the old location of Planned Parenthood in Houston TX. The new location is the mega-death center, the largest abortion clinic in the western hemisphere.

A Message for Pastors

 

[wynnejj]

40 Days for Life has been extremely successful in its short time of existence.

What started in 2004, in a little college town in Texas, has now been the catalyst for at least 2 MAJOR employees of Planned Parenthood to leave their positions and begin working on behalf of the unborn. One of whom is Abby Johnston, who was to have become the Director of the regional Planned Parenthood headquarters here in Houston, but who quit and converted after seeing an ultrasound abortion performed. So far, 53 abortion clinic workers THAT WE KNOW OF have left their jobs. This strikes fear in the hearts of the abortion provider - because these people talk to their friends about what an abortion clinic really is. 14 abortion facilities have ** completely shut down** following local 40 Days for Life campaigns!!! Praise GOD for his mercies!

40 Days is a wholly Catholic and wholly reverent approach to the women and men who are abortion-minded. That is one reason I am saddened by this Bishop asking priests and seminarians to refrain from joining the prayer vigil.

We see Catholics walk into the clinics as employees and clients EVERY DAY. I personally have witnessed many clients drive into the parking lot with a ROSARY hanging from the rear view mirror. You don’t think seeing a priest in robes and a collar, praying visibly out in front, would prick the hearts of these people and cause them to consider more seriously what they are doing? It is EXTREMELY powerful for religious to show up and help us pray!!! It is probably THE MOST powerful and Satan absolutely HATES IT and will do everything in his power to subvert it!! The absolute best would be for MANY priests to come at the same time and have throngs of the faithful around them. Numbers and the collars would get results. Babies would be saved, and the clinics’ bottom dollar would be greatly reduced.

But day after day, the Church turns a blind eye toward the tiny ones who will lose their life before even drawing one breath. Sadly, where I am, there are sometimes more Lutherans on the sidewalk than there are Catholics. Yes, we do the MOST pro-life work overall, but given the small numbers, that’s rather a weak compliment.

With all my mission statement of action items to fight the war on abortion as posted previously, you have hit upon the very first order of business - and maybe in the final analysis, the most bang for the buck.

 

[seekerz]

I see only one tonic for fighting the war on abortion.

What the abortion issue needs is an identifiable religious group of people who lead by example … Catholics … as a block of people with a uniform, consistent proper behaviour in their sexual morality, promoting chastity and fighting politically against the marketing of pornography, fighting politically against the organizations that promote promiscuity in the guise of family planning with patently unhealthy solutions for women, and fighting politically for the proper definition of marriage. It needs Catholics with a consistent, correct view - in their personal behaviour and in the voting patterns.

Catholics must work to outlaw all abortion with no exceptions and the sale of all abortifacient birth control as the abominable crimes that they are.

Catholic education must promote chastity education with abstinence and NFP training as mandatory sex education as the only clear & consistent acceptable means of practicing responsible parenthood.

Catholic education must promote a clear understanding that all forms of masturbation are a grave sin, including those with partners in or out of marriage, which is what contraception and homosexual relations are.

Catholic education on sexual morality must be taught in an age appropriate way at all educational venues, which includes all formal Catholic schools, CCD instruction, RCIA instruction and most importantly on the Sunday pulpit in outline form as to what is mortally sinful and must be confessed before presenting yourself at the altar for Holy Communion.

Most importantly, we must pray constantly privately, as well as publicly by offering up prayer petitions for our conversion to sexual morality with regular Sunday Mass prayer petitions. That is, we must pray for the changing of the hearts & minds of Catholics first.

The clergy must end the confusion and give us a uniform, clear, consistent message and lay Catholics must live the message and lead the world by example.

All the rest, changing the hearts & minds of non-Catholics is ineffective** if those groups do not have Catholics to show them the way by example.

I agree with the trend of your post: the antidote to the reign of sin has always been the witness of Christian life well lived.

 

[seekerz]

The thing is, your arguments are easily used by some catholics to justify their voting for pro-abortion politicians. They say, “what’s the use, no politicians have outlawed abortion in forty years, so we need to address it other ways - like funding programs for unwed mothers, sex education in school, etc.” They also often say, " the so-called pro-life politicians don’t want to outlaw abortion, they just want the votes." So its easy to go from “it doesn’t matter who we vote for- abortion will remain legal” to “I can vote for Barbara Boxer even though she is pro-abortion because abortion will never be outlawed anyway and what’s more Boxer supports all the liberal issues that I support.” That is how liberal catholics justify their support for pro-abortion politicians. Notice how I say, “some catholics” and not “seekerz” so don’t accuse me of assuming how you vote.

The last point you made is a strawman: the idea that conservatives distrust the effectiveness of government so we are hypocrites for wanting the government to outlaw abortion. Unless you’re talking about extreme libertarians or anarchists, this idea is nonsense. Last I checked the civil rights of blacks was strengthened by politicians passing the civil rights act. Sometimes they get it right. Politicians gave us Scalia, Alito, Roberts and Thomas. The problem is when catholics vote for the wrong politicians - the pro-abortion ones.

Ishii

Your last argument is a straw man. What are you asserting would be substantially different, if every Catholic voted for politicians who profess anti-abortion views?

By saying politicians can’t/won’t end abortion, I am by no means implying that the fight is useless (but perhaps particular strategies and weapons are). There are always multiple ways to skin a cat…without getting one’s eyes scratched out I might add!

 

[Tigg]

We see Catholics walk into the clinics as employees and clients EVERY DAY. I personally have witnessed many clients drive into the parking lot with a ROSARY hanging from the rear view mirror. You don’t think seeing a priest in robes and a collar, praying visibly out in front, would prick the hearts of these people and cause them to consider more seriously what they are doing? It is EXTREMELY powerful for religious to show up and help us pray!!! It is probably THE MOST powerful and Satan absolutely HATES IT and will do everything in his power to subvert it!! The absolute best would be for MANY priests to come at the same time and have throngs of the faithful around them. Numbers and the collars would get results. Babies would be saved, and the clinics’ bottom dollar would be greatly reduced.

I couldn’t agree more. The visible leadership of the Church is what is most needed and no compromise should be made under the pretext of maintaining peace or being politically correct. And the bishop is the symbol of a united Catholic presence. Has the Church suddenly become embarrassed to speak and stand on moral ground?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I couldn’t agree more. The visible leadership of the Church is what is most needed and no compromise should be made under the pretext of maintaining peace or being politically correct. And the bishop is the symbol of a united Catholic presence. Has the Church suddenly become embarrassed to speak and stand on moral ground?

Churches are under threat of losing their 501C3 status if they speak about political candidates, which means churches and the priests who run them are running away from stating unequivocally that Catholics may not vote for a party which includes the right to abortion as well as euthanasia, birth control and all manner of artificial insemination and embryonic stem cell research. But not one church has lost its tax-deduction status, it is just a threat. If churches stood up to the threat, it would disappear.

Priests have also been told that if they talk about abortion from the pulpit, they will traumatize women in the pews who have had abortions. I say, DO IT. Let those women feel their true guilt and pain, and let them heal. Keeping this secret is already doing them harm - actually having the priest condemn abortion - and speak of Christ’s mercy for post-abortive women - would be healing for them.

It is time we Catholics dropped the scales from our eyes and start acknowledging that we are ignoring a holocaust in our day - over 50 million of our children’s generation have been killed in the womb. That should be the message every Sunday until the day abortion is no longer legal. God loves you, but let’s stop abortion now. God forgives your abortion, but now you need to help your sisters NOT to ruin their lives and kill their children. Rachel, stop weeping and RISE UP and fight this!

 

[Semper_Zelare]

Churches are under threat of losing their 501C3 status if they speak about political candidates, which means churches and the priests who run them are running away from stating unequivocally that Catholics may not vote for a party which includes the right to abortion as well as euthanasia, birth control and all manner of artificial insemination and embryonic stem cell research. But not one church has lost its tax-deduction status, it is just a threat. If churches stood up to the threat, it would disappear.

I never really understood this. Do people from the government come into our churches to monitor what’s being said in the homilies? If so… that is wrong. That should not happen at all.
Furthermore, if they weren’t Catholic, and wanted to monitor the sermons in a Catholic Church, I bet any money that they would take Communion. Someone tell me I’m wrong. I think it’s got to be a reality that IF government bureaucrats monitor sermons for political rhetoric to threaten us that they’ll remove our exemption to taxes… IF they visit our Churches to do this, I have no doubt that they would invalidly receive the Eucharist as well. Tell me that isn’t a logical conclusion?

At the same time… the argument could be made that we must keep the tax exempt status. Because, if we lost it, the government would tax the Church, and then use that money to pay for abortion, the death penalty, unjust wars. The government would use it for evil purposes. That’s why rendering unto Caesar is so terrible today. I hate paying taxes, because I would never give 1 cent for birth control, I would never give 1 cent for someone to have an abortion. And yet, my tax money has paid for those things.

 

[gakroeger]

Your last argument is a straw man. What are you asserting would be substantially different, if every Catholic voted for politicians who profess anti-abortion views?

"By saying politicians can’t/won’t end abortion, I am by no means implying that the fight is useless (but perhaps particular strategies and weapons are). There are always multiple ways to skin a cat…without getting one’s eyes scratched out I might add!

“While recognizing the autonomy of the reality of politics, Christians who are invited to take up political activity should try to make their choices consistent with the gospel and, in the framework of a legitimate plurality, to give both personal and collective witness to the seriousness of their faith by effective and disinterested service of men” (Pope Paul VI, A Call to Action, 46).