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Demetra2
Guest
Thank you! This is something that all Catholics and Non-Catholics urgently need to read. Some are blind guides and blind fools.
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Thank you! This is something that all Catholics and Non-Catholics urgently need to read. Some are blind guides and blind fools.
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theCrow
Guest
Actually No.
It’s better to compare SSM with, you know, actual MARRIAGE. A beautiful commitment made between 2 consenting adults who love each other and want to spend their lives together.
This is why society is changing, it’s all about love. This love trumps all other’s beliefs who are convinced that it is an abomination, and a sin. I mean have people here actually TALKED or MET a Same Sex Married couple? Who am I to judge? Let them love, get married, and have their own relationship with God. peace and love,
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Bookcat
Guest
No- one may not congratulate such.
Catechism 2357: “Under no circumstances can they be approved.”
Also Catechism:
1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
- by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
- by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
- by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
- by protecting evil-doers.
Love persons. But love must be in truth and truth in love. One may not approve of such. And to approve of such is not only sinful on the part of the person who approves *but is contrary to loving the persons involved.
*
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manualman
Guest
This post totally makes sense IF you see the world as one in which morality is arbitrarily settled upon by societal convention rather than intrinsic value. Believing Catholics don’t and can’t look at the world this way.
We understand sin to be that which is destructive in the long run. Drugs make the user blissful for a time as well, but they aren’t what is fundamentally good for you. Same with gluttony. Sexually active homosexual people have sky high rates of depression, drug use, suicide, domestic violence, infidelity and scores of other self-destructive behaviors. Sins beget other sins and eventually misery. Christians don’t “judge” those they love for heading down a road to destruction, we mourn it.
It is not loving or compassionate to reject and hate a family member for her mistakes, but neither is it loving or compassionate to shrug and/or celebrate with someone while that person is destroying themselves slowly. There is a tricky balance in between that requires careful handling. As a person from an extended family with lots of alcoholism, I see a direct parallel. You can’t judge or scold someone from stopping drinking, you can only love them until they are ready for help.
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PaulGH
Guest
I have known committed same-sex couples, though this was in the days before the attempts to redefine marriage had made much progress. The ones that I knew were very nice, sincere, loving people, whom I enjoyed spending time with. But that doesn’t mean that I approved of their relationships.
Your statement above seems to imply that Catholics are biased against same-sex couples because we think that they are mean, evil, nasty people. But we don’t think that at all. Rather, we think that they are people who are engaging in objectively immoral actions, and who are in some cases seeking public recognition and approval for these actions by attempting to enter a marriage with each other.
It’s similar to the situation with a male family member of mine who cohabited with his girlfriend for a long period of time. I didn’t approve of their cohabitation, and I advised him against it when they were planning to move in together. But I still got along with him and his girlfriend during their cohabitation, and I didn’t browbeat them about it. I still spent time with them, I still treated them with kindness and respect, and I made no effort to exclude them from my life. (And they made no effort to exclude me either.)
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theCrow
Guest
Well this is why many, dare I say MOST “believing Catholics” are changing their views about SSM, as is the entire world.
When you infer that we should “mourn” for a SSM, and that it leads down a “road to destruction”, well how would you feel if someone said that about your opposite sex marriage? Or to compare it to alcoholism.
God is Love, and Love will win and triumph in all situations, which is why the world is changing.
What you and some Catholics call a sin, an abomination, a road to destruction is in reality the exact opposite, the path to love and happiness. I refuse to judge and to believe God would agree with the former, but rather obviously God believes the latter
Or so I hope and pray.
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Corki
Guest
If a Catholic is changing his/her views about SS"M", he/she is no longer a believing Catholic. He/she would become a dissenting Catholic.Well this is why many, dare I say MOST “believing Catholics” are changing their views about SSM, as is the entire world.
When you infer that we should “mourn” for a SSM, and that it leads down a “road to destruction”, well how would you feel if someone said that about your opposite sex marriage? Or to compare it to alcoholism.
God is Love, and Love will win and triumph in all situations, which is why the world is changing.
What you and some Catholics call a sin, an abomination, a road to destruction is in reality the exact opposite, the path to love and happiness. I refuse to judge and to believe God would agree with the former, but rather obviously God believes the latter
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Bookcat
Guest
Great quote to apply to all things in life:
"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.
Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality."
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Caritas in Veritate)
"Only in truth does charity shine forth, only in truth can charity be authentically lived.
Without truth, charity degenerates into sentimentality."
~ Pope Benedict XVI (Caritas in Veritate)
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manualman
Guest
I’d feel rather amused since the world as we know it today only exists because of the cohesion provided over time by the families that genuine marriage is ordered towards creating.
Love will win in the long run. It’s just that love means rather more than sentiment and a vague notion of goodwill.
It’s really interesting how many unexamined popular misconceptions are bubbling to the surface on this issue. Society was prepared for this moment gradually over many decades. First we were sold on contraception so that people got used to thinking about the procreative aspect of married intimacy as an incidental option tacked on rather than a pointer towards the deepest meaning of what marriage is. Then we were sold a vision of ‘freedom’ for women in which humanity must be understood to be androgenous at the core and our physical differences irrelevant at best. Once both these deceptions were achieved, gay marriage does indeed become logically inevitable. It’s just that not all of us were sold on the FIRST set of lies, so this one doesn’t even appeal to us.
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bmaj
Guest
I agree wholeheartedly with this recommendation and have had almost the same situation in my life in trying to decide what to say to a friend in a homosexual relationship. I would continue to treat her lovingly as you likely always had, pray for her earnestly, and be there for her if she asks your advice as her Godparent regarding anything involving Catholicism. Pope Francis has said that he would not judge in this type of situation, and if that’s good enough for him, it’s good enough for me. But there’s a difference between judging and condoning. I don’t think we should condone it or imply we’re condoning it in any way. God’s peace be with you through this situation.
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blujazz25
Guest
For the OP, I would say just wish her well. The fact that if you congratulate it also goes into you condoning the act.
As a God parent, your task is to be a guide for her until she meets God. It will be hard, but I think praying for her will help.
As for the post from one member, the Catholic faith is in persecution because it stands to its teachings…it has always been and will be. Just because we catholics follow this teaching we are instantly labeled as bigots or immature or old fashioned. Sure, we are traditional but it is because it is logical. For us, the sacrament of Marriage is sacred, man and woman, God blesses that because from there comes forth new life. Marriage reflects God’s love, and Christ’s commitment to His bride, the Church. Pope Francis said that if a homosexual follows God’s will, who are we to judge… and what is God’s will? the Marriage is between man and woman. HATE THE SIN, LOVE THE SINNER. God is love, but that does not mean that the whole nature of God’s love has to be distorted. There is a reason why male and female body parts are different.
As a God parent, your task is to be a guide for her until she meets God. It will be hard, but I think praying for her will help.
As for the post from one member, the Catholic faith is in persecution because it stands to its teachings…it has always been and will be. Just because we catholics follow this teaching we are instantly labeled as bigots or immature or old fashioned. Sure, we are traditional but it is because it is logical. For us, the sacrament of Marriage is sacred, man and woman, God blesses that because from there comes forth new life. Marriage reflects God’s love, and Christ’s commitment to His bride, the Church. Pope Francis said that if a homosexual follows God’s will, who are we to judge… and what is God’s will? the Marriage is between man and woman. HATE THE SIN, LOVE THE SINNER. God is love, but that does not mean that the whole nature of God’s love has to be distorted. There is a reason why male and female body parts are different.
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Generic_Name
Guest
This is a great response - but somehow today one is called “mean, hateful, un-loving,” if you do anything besides wholeheartedly support the sinful actions of others.
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EasterJoy
Guest
This is a good analogy. People who are full of good will in every other avenue of their life can still sin seriously in one isolated area. To call them on the serious issue is not to denigrate all the good they do. It does not mean shunning them. It only means to avoid normalizing an unacceptable behavior merely because such nice people have chosen to go ahead and do it.
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Slaney
Guest
If she asks you, tell her God and you don’t agree with it, if she has a problem with it, tell her to take it up with God +++
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Estevao
Guest
No, you might as well congratulate little Timmy for writing down ‘3’ in ‘1+1 = _____’. Oh but that’s mean and hateful! Little Timmy should be able to do math however he wants! Who are you to tell him otherwise?!
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
You must be joking. I guess the world is comprised of a number of US states, and a few European countries. The rest doesn’t count?
As for those Catholics who support this idea, they happen to live in the countries mentioned above. Hardly the whole world, but a small minority, influenced by hedonism and debauchery of the secular societies in which they live.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Exactly. The Apostles did not promise a message that would evolve. Instead, they warned against false teachers to come who would presume to change the apostolic teaching, and in particular predicted some would attempt to seduce Christians away from the truth and into immorality.You must be joking. I guess the world is comprised of a number of US states, and a few European countries. The rest doesn’t count?
As for those Catholics who support this idea, they happen to live in the countries mentioned above. Hardly the whole world, but a small minority, influenced by hedonism and debauchery of the secular societies in which they live.
There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled…For, talking empty bombast, they seduce with licentious desires of the flesh those who have barely escaped from people who live in error. They promise them freedom, though they themselves are slaves of corruption, for a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him. For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and “A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire.”
** 2 Peter 2:1-2, 18-22**
The false teachers say, “If this is what your body drives you to do, then you are meant to do it. Quit struggling against what you are. Do it.” Our Lord said, “If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body go into Gehenna.” Matt. 5:29-30 That is a serious metaphor, a metaphor that says that in the choice between following the commandments of God and self-renunciation, we have to renounce our flesh and follow the commandments of God.
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ewahawaii
Guest
This thread has helped me a lot. My cousin sadly passed away recently. She was in a same-sex marriage. In the obituary it says “survived by wife…” I made it known that to refer her partner as “her wife” is a blasphemous statement against the sanctity of marriage which God has created. One of my sisters actually told me I am being judgemental for saying this. But after reading the responses, I feel good in hate the sin but love the sinner. More important to uphold the teachings of Jesus.
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Mulligan2
Guest
When I read the OP, my instinctual reaction is to offer congratulations as well.
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