Congregation Size needed for a new FSSP Apostolate

[Deo_Gratias42]

Given the current numbers with the FSSP priest-wise, they seem to be spread out quite thinly. Because they are supposed to live in community, my understanding is it is ideal to have at least three priests per fraternity house, which is currently not happening. Further, in such cases, the priests are very busy and over-worked. I know where I live, one small congregation was no longer able to be supplied by the FSSP, though their apostolate still exists in the larger congregations with less of a commute.

Does anyone know what the likelihood is of an FSSP apostolate in an already established Latin Mass Community of approx 80 people that is currently served by a diocesan priest who will soon be retiring? The diocese currently has 3 diocesan priests willing to learn the EF Mass, but the congregation doesn’t want diocesan priests. It wants Fraternity priests. I could see the FSSP sending a priest temporarily to train these priests, but I can’t see an apostolate being started for a congregation so small.

Thoughts? Opinions? Experiences? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

 

[corsair]

We are currently served by a retired Jesuit priest who is very close to the FSSP. But he is 80+ years young. The FSSP priests fill in for him if he is sick on on vacation.

Our Masses are at a very inconvenient time on Sunday (7:00 pm). We had no say in the time as we are hosted by another parish and that was the time given to us. Our attendence runs about 120-130 and we are collecting around 4-5 thousand a month. This more than pays our rent and supplies. Eventually we need to grow enough to purchase our own church which means $$$$$$$ and lots of them.

South of us there is a monthly TLM celebrated by Diocesan priests. Their attendence is about 50-60 folks consistantly. That is not enough to support a parish. They pay their bills but thats about all.

Like everything else in life, it costs money. So unless you have some “heavy-hitters” handy, it will not last. And in todays economy, its going to be tough.

In your case the folks had better realize that they do not have a choice in who they get for a priest. If they prefer the FSSP, then they had better carpool and drive the extra distance.

Its best if they count their blessings and be grateful for what they have.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

We are currently served by a retired Jesuit priest who is very close to the FSSP. But he is 80+ years young. The FSSP priests fill in for him if he is sick on on vacation.

Our Masses are at a very inconvenient time on Sunday (7:00 pm). We had no say in the time as we are hosted by another parish and that was the time given to us. Our attendence runs about 120-130 and we are collecting around 4-5 thousand a month. This more than pays our rent and supplies. Eventually we need to grow enough to purchase our own church which means $$$$$$$ and lots of them.

South of us there is a monthly TLM celebrated by Diocesan priests. Their attendence is about 50-60 folks consistantly. That is not enough to support a parish. They pay their bills but thats about all.

Like everything else in life, it costs money. So unless you have some “heavy-hitters” handy, it will not last. And in todays economy, its going to be tough.

In your case the folks had better realize that they do not have a choice in who they get for a priest. If they prefer the FSSP, then they had better carpool and drive the extra distance.

Its best if they count their blessings and be grateful for what they have.

It’s a 6 hour drive for them one way to the nearest FSSP apostolate. I moved from the city so it’s only 15-20 minutes for me.

I’m sure they will receive whatever it is that God wills for their sanctification, whether that be fraternity priests, diocesan priests, or no priest and they lose their Latin Mass community because they didn’t appreciate or support the diocesan priests who could have helped.

 

[PacoG]

We have an FSSP priest in our diocese who is assigned to the Hospital ministry and has “Sunday duty” at a nearby parish. I think he came from Detroit with Bishop Flores.

Interestingly enough, the Oratorian Fathers celebrate the EF Masses in our diocese.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The diocese currently has 3 diocesan priests willing to learn the EF Mass, but the congregation doesn’t want diocesan priests. It wants Fraternity priests.

Why?

I do not believe it is right for any group to make such a demand.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I have been thinking about this a bit more.

It is kind of like a group of parishioners who attend a parish that is run by the Franciscans saying that they do not want the Franciscans any more but now what the Carmelites.

The laity do not get a say in this. Heck they do not even have a right to the EF Mass.

 

[corsair]

Br. David, I generally agree that the laity does not have a “right” to any particular form of the Mass. But the Bishop does not have a “right” tp prevent it either. It was taken out of his hands by Summorum Pontificum.

Having made that statement we must face the reality of life. What priest is going to go against the wishes of his Bishop? Even though he could, licitly.

There is a correct way to pursue the TLM and an incorrect way. I can fully understand the desire to have priests from the FSSP. But the Traditional Mass celebrated by a Diocesan priest is a gift from God.

Homilies by FSSP priests are generally fantastic but lets not confuse this with the Mass said properly by a priest who may not be well trained as a homilist. The priest should not be the center of attention.

As Fr. Z often states, “brick by brick”.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Br. David, I generally agree that the laity does not have a “right” to any particular form of the Mass. But the Bishop does not have a “right” tp prevent it either. It was taken out of his hands by Summorum Pontificum.

Having made that statement we must face the reality of life. What priest is going to go against the wishes of his Bishop? Even though he could, licitly.

There is a correct way to pursue the TLM and an incorrect way. I can fully understand the desire to have priests from the FSSP. But the Traditional Mass celebrated by a Diocesan priest is a gift from God.

Homilies by FSSP priests are generally fantastic but lets not confuse this with the Mass said properly by a priest who may not be well trained as a homilist. The priest should not be the center of attention.

As Fr. Z often states, “brick by brick”.

The issue here is not the right to have the EF Mass. It appears that the bishop is working to provide this. The priest who is celebrating it is retiring and there are three other priests working to learn it.

While we may quibble over the right of the laity to demand an EF Mass what they surely have no right to demand that the EF, which it appears that the bishop is not obstructing in any way, be served by a certain priest or religious institute.

I would even go so far as to say that a desire to have the FSSP over a diocesan priest is a disordered desire.

What I desire is to have a faithful priest who follows the Church, anything more than that is an extra and not something that I have any right to ask for.

Anyways there is no way that a community of 80 people will be able to support a community of priests. I even doubt their ability to support one priest.

 

[corsair]

I find nothing wrong in a desire to “prefer” one sort of priest over another. I, too, prefer an FSSP priest over most Diocesan priest because they generally are better trained in the TLM. Prefences are fine as long as they don’t over rule better judgement.

we currently have Diocesan priest that do a great job of celebrating the EF. One is a super homilist while the other two are OK. Its the Mass that I love (EF).

Yes, I attend the OF on ocassion but I “prefer” the EF.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I see what you are saying.

But one must understand that a desire or preference does not mean that one has a right to something.

It is totally up to the bishop as a religious institute can only come into his diocese at his request. The laity can not make any requests to the institute.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I see what you are saying.

But one must understand that a desire or preference does not mean that one has a right to something.

It is totally up to the bishop as a religious institute can only come into his diocese at his request. The laity can not make any requests to the institute.

The bishop currently is not aware that he has three diocesan priests wanting to learn the TLM. The Latin Mass Community doesn’t want to support these priests, and do not want to bring it to the bishop’s attention that these priests are interested in learning. The bishop fully supports the TLM and the community, and could grant them permission and the funds to attend the FSSP’s TLM workshops in Nebraska. They’d be home in time for Sunday Mass, though because these are new young priests, they aren’t alone in their parishes, so there is still a priest to offer Mass on Sunday.

What this boils down to is the Latin Mass Community’s attitude towards diocesan priests.

Who knows, maybe one day the FSSP will also offer a workshop in traditional spirituality and sermons to further assist diocesan priests.

 

[ProVobis]

The Latin Mass Community doesn’t want to support these priests, and do not want to bring it to the bishop’s attention that these priests are interested in learning.

I have to agree with Friar David here. This doesn’t sound like a healthy approach in establishing a permanent Latin Mass Community, FSSP or otherwise, whether you have 10 or 10,000. As the saying goes, beggars shouldn’t be choosers.

 

[CB_Catholic]

The bishop currently is not aware that he has three diocesan priests wanting to learn the TLM. The Latin Mass Community doesn’t want to support these priests, and do not want to bring it to the bishop’s attention that these priests are interested in learning. The bishop fully supports the TLM and the community, and could grant them permission and the funds to attend the FSSP’s TLM workshops in Nebraska. They’d be home in time for Sunday Mass, though because these are new young priests, they aren’t alone in their parishes, so there is still a priest to offer Mass on Sunday.

What this boils down to is the Latin Mass Community’s attitude towards diocesan priests.

Who knows, maybe one day the FSSP will also offer a workshop in traditional spirituality and sermons to further assist diocesan priests.

I hate to say this, but they sound rather like a bunch of spoiled children who don’t appreciate what they have and want their way no matter what. I wouldn’t want to have much to do with them if I were a priest. That kind of attitude does not foster growth at all and spells trouble.

 

[Deo_Gratias42]

I have to agree with Friar David here. This doesn’t sound like a healthy approach in establishing a permanent Latin Mass Community, FSSP or otherwise, whether you have 10 or 10,000. As the saying goes, beggars can’t be choosers.

That’s what I said (in my head). I have to be careful with my words.

I can understand and empathize for the desire to have an FSSP apostolate, but if it’s logistically impossible, or burdensome, and diocesan priests can do the job, then I think it’s obvious what the answer is. If the community were larger, I could see it being more feasible to have the FSSP look after it to free up the diocesan priests for other parishes, given the priest shortage situation in the diocese, and to possibly offer additional TLM’s throughout the city, particularly daily low Mass. I find it much easier to attend daily Mass in the EF because there typically is no homily, and it doesn’t take as long as the OF Mass. It fits better into a daily schedule. To some degree, it would be advantageous to let the diocesan priests offer the TLM, as they are likely to help it grow and bring in other parishioners from the OF crowd whom otherwise might not be so inclined to attend the “Latin Mass” with a “bunch of traditionalists”. Let’s be honest, some traditionalist environments can seem pretty unwelcoming to someone who is not of the traditional mindset.

For the record, despite being a member of an FSSP Latin Mass Community, I am not really a Traditionalist. I’m just there because I need the structure and the discipline to keep myself going strong. I have zero tolerance for traditude. I don’t even attend the TLM when I am at home because I can smell the traditude from outside the church.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

The bishop currently is not aware that he has three diocesan priests wanting to learn the TLM. The Latin Mass Community doesn’t want to support these priests, and do not want to bring it to the bishop’s attention that these priests are interested in learning. The bishop fully supports the TLM and the community, and could grant them permission and the funds to attend the FSSP’s TLM workshops in Nebraska. They’d be home in time for Sunday Mass, though because these are new young priests, they aren’t alone in their parishes, so there is still a priest to offer Mass on Sunday.

What this boils down to is the Latin Mass Community’s attitude towards diocesan priests.

This kind of divisive attitude is what causes bishops to be wary of groups who prefer the EF Mass.

Who knows, maybe one day the FSSP will also offer a workshop in traditional spirituality and sermons to further assist diocesan priests.

There is no such thing as “traditional” spirituality. As for sermons that is a very subjective thing.

 

[anp1215]

I hate to say this, but they sound rather like a bunch of spoiled children who don’t appreciate what they have and want their way no matter what. I wouldn’t want to have much to do with them if I were a priest. That kind of attitude does not foster growth at all and spells trouble.

I agree. Do they have any idea how blessed and fortunate they are? So many who really want the EF have no priests and/or a bishop willing to support it at all.

 

[AdDeum]

I agree. Do they have any idea how blessed and fortunate they are? So many who really want the EF have no priests and/or a bishop willing to support it at all.

I agree… I would be happy to have an EF Mass somewhere within the same diocese that I live in… As it is, I have to travel outside my diocese to go to the EF.

I feel that whether it’s a diocesan priest or fraternity priest, you still have a priest saying the Mass. It’s still Christ at the center.

 

[justme]

I agree… I would be happy to have an EF Mass somewhere within the same diocese that I live in… As it is, I have to travel outside my diocese to go to the EF.

I feel that whether it’s a diocesan priest or fraternity priest, you still have a priest saying the Mass.** It’s still Christ at the center.**

I believe that this is were the issue lies with this group.

 

[BertBlyleven]

I’m sure the FSSP priests would have choice words for this congregation.

This kind of issue really has no end; there is always something “undesirable” about each priest, even in the FSSP.

 

[petiteguignol]

I have attended a diocesan Latin Mass for more than 10 years, with a brief sojourn at SSPX.

I too wish very much that we could have a FSSP priest say the Latin Mass in my city.

I have felt, with good reason, that the diocese is actually quite hostile toward the Latin Mass, and there are many things that go on there which have forced me to conclude that there is an organized effort at sabotage.

I won’t go into detail about this, but I easily could. I just probably would not be believed. My family, who has lived through this, agrees.

I would be interested to know how many other diocesan Latin Mass attendees have experieced the same thing where they live.