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John_Pain
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I see that as an “in your face” attack against civil liberties.
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John_Pain
Guest
Once again, at this time, what Clinton did is irrelevant. He is no longer president just as Nixon is no longer president.
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John_Pain
Guest
Same here.
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John_Pain
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Ani Ibi:
If the Bush Regime takes away our civil liberties in the name of “national security”, we still lose our civil liberties.
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John_Pain
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Ani Ibi:
Those facts make me think something was rotten in Denmark with Mr. Bush from the get-go.
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John_Pain
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Semper Fi:
However, Mr. Bush is president in the here and now.
You already know what they are and past presidents are just that, past. Though I think George Washington’s actions during the Whiskey Rebellion were reprehensible, they are in the past and there is nothing I can do about that.
However, Mr. Bush is president in the here and now.
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shockerfan
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John Pain:
Comparing Bush to Hitler is total intellectual dishonesty…and you know that too.
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shockerfan
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I guess hypocrisy is acceptable when you are a liberal driven by an absolute hatred of Bush.
drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
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MikeWM
Guest
We’re getting into legalese again, but I note that section 3 of Clinton’s order says
Is that the ‘going to the court after the fact’ thing? I don’t know, but it sounds like it. In that case this order is legal under FISA.
Mike
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Adonis33
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John Pain:
What civil liberties have you lost under this administration? How has you rour life been more retrained in the last six years?
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MikeWM
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A bipartisan group of senators opposed renewing parts of the Patriot Act because of the civil liberty implications, only last week.
Mike
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beckers
Guest
Interesting tidbit from the drudgereport this morning—
Seems people only want to get upset when Bush did it…
CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS – WITHOUT COURT ORDER
**CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: ‘ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE’ WITHOUT COURT ORDER **
****Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval
Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order"
****WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also – in the delicate words of a Justice Department official – to "places where you wouldn’t find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen… would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order."
Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president "has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes."
Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames’s office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
****Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: "Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order."
**END **
drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
Seems people only want to get upset when Bush did it…
CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS – WITHOUT COURT ORDER
**CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: ‘ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE’ WITHOUT COURT ORDER **
****Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval
Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order"
****WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also – in the delicate words of a Justice Department official – to "places where you wouldn’t find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen… would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order."
Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president "has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes."
Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames’s office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
****Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: "Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order."
**END **
drudgereport.com/flash8.htm
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John_Pain
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Comparing certain actions committed by both men is not total intellectual dishonesty and that’s what I did whether you know it or not.
However, I would agree that comparing Bush to Hitler in toto, especially morally, would be unfair and intellectually dishonest. I did not do that.
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John_Pain
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Bush Backers Say Two or Even Three Wrongs Can Make a Right
by James Glaser
December 21, 2005
President George Bush was caught in a crime with the executive order he signed that allows our government to spy on us without first having an American court issue a warrant.
Bush’s backers are digging up any help they can find and now they are talking about how both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter signed executive orders so that the government could do electronic surveillance on American citizens without a search warrant.
Before this week, these people thought Bill Clinton was the worst president we ever had, a criminal who should have been impeached and they spoke of Jimmy Carter as a buffoon. That was before they needed an excuse. These people thought everything Clinton did was bad, but now they hold up both of these former Presidents as some sort of an excuse for what George Bush has done.
Mod note: Quotes from outside sources to be limited to one to three paragraphs.
Permalink: james-glaser.com/2005/p20051221.html
by James Glaser
December 21, 2005
President George Bush was caught in a crime with the executive order he signed that allows our government to spy on us without first having an American court issue a warrant.
Bush’s backers are digging up any help they can find and now they are talking about how both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter signed executive orders so that the government could do electronic surveillance on American citizens without a search warrant.
Before this week, these people thought Bill Clinton was the worst president we ever had, a criminal who should have been impeached and they spoke of Jimmy Carter as a buffoon. That was before they needed an excuse. These people thought everything Clinton did was bad, but now they hold up both of these former Presidents as some sort of an excuse for what George Bush has done.
Mod note: Quotes from outside sources to be limited to one to three paragraphs.
Permalink: james-glaser.com/2005/p20051221.html
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estesbob
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Bipartsan means all but two of the Democrats voted to kill it while only 4 Republicans supported killing it ? The Patriot Act was killed by the Democrat Party-they have made us less safe an they will pay a step price for it in the 2006 elections.
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estesbob
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John Pain:
FISA is an unconstitutional abridgment of the Presidents war time power. He is under no obligation follow it when conductng a war and obtaining inteligence on our enemies.
The court has held repeatedly that the Presidnet needs no warrant to obtain foreign intelligence information. It was most recently affirmed by United States v. Truong Dinh Hung, 4th Cir. 1980.
FISA is an unconstitutional abridgment of the Presidents war time power. He is under no obligation follow it when conductng a war and obtaining inteligence on our enemies.
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John_Pain
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Please furnish a link to the formal declaration of war as required by the Constitution. I am not referring to the resolution passed by Congress giving Bush the authority to use his discretion with Iraq.
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matthewstivison
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I love this. If they want to call for an impeachment and jump through all the hoops to try to do something that will not happen( Congress impeaching Bush) then let them. It keeps them unfocused on thier leftist agenda and the 08 elections. Dems just don’t seem to get that thier message should be of hope, not spite and hatred of a man who is a legitimate president.
I actually hope it goes to a vote and there are hearings in the senate. I would love to see Hillary postion herself in that situation.
Dems have some good social positions but really how can you rally a base with positions like pro choice (kill the innocent) and Anti death penalty (save the guilty) I am against both so where is my political home?
I actually hope it goes to a vote and there are hearings in the senate. I would love to see Hillary postion herself in that situation.
Dems have some good social positions but really how can you rally a base with positions like pro choice (kill the innocent) and Anti death penalty (save the guilty) I am against both so where is my political home?
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estesbob
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John Pain:
Its realy quite smple-he had the authority to do this since the day he took office, congress affirmed his right to do this with the resolution they passed authorizing the Iraq war , congress was kept informed of what he was doing and at least the last Four presidents acknowledged they did the same thing.
Of course you dont want me to refer to the resolution as it is this reslution that bolsters the actions he has taken. As I have cited twice case law shows he doesent even need an act of war to be declared to take the actions he has taken.
Its realy quite smple-he had the authority to do this since the day he took office, congress affirmed his right to do this with the resolution they passed authorizing the Iraq war , congress was kept informed of what he was doing and at least the last Four presidents acknowledged they did the same thing.
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estesbob
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I love it too. The Democrat party has proven once again they can not be trusted with protecting us from foreign enemies. In addition to all mock outrage over a policy that has been followed by at least the last 4 Presidents they just kiled the patriot Act. They will pay dearly for all of this in the 206 elections.
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