"Conscience" in liberal non-Catholic churches?

[TULIPed]

I am assuming that your screen name is a reference to Calvin’s five points. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

Bingo! (I’m not a true “5 pointer” - I’m probably a 3.5 - 4.0 truth be told)

The Holy Spirit leads His One True Catholic Church to teach the truth about matters of faith and morals.

Agreed. However, the Holy Spirit also acts within and upon each of us. From the RCC:

“1830 The moral life of Christians is sustained by the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These are permanent dispositions which make man docile in following the promptings of the Holy Spirit.”

From Romans 8:

“Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.”

It gets better:

“14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”

As Christians, we look for the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. We are continually examining our consciences for evidence of the Spirit. Our conscience is - or should always be - subordinate to the Holy Spirit.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

The Holy Spirit leads His One True Catholic Church to teach the truth about matters of faith and morals.

Agreed. However, the Holy Spirit also acts within and upon each of us. From the RCC:

“1830 The moral life of Christians is sustained by the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These are permanent dispositions which make man docile in following the promptings of the Holy Spirit.”

From Romans 8:

“Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.”

It gets better:

“14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.”

As Christians, we look for the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. We are continually examining our consciences for evidence of the Spirit. Our conscience is - or should always be - subordinate to the Holy Spirit.

I don’t disagree with a word you say — as far as it goes. I know you are aware, even though you are a Calvinist, that Catholics believe the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error. To say that the Holy Spirit sustains the Christian’s moral life, and that our conscience should always be subordinate to the Holy Spirit, does not contradict this one bit. We just take it in a little different direction, in that we have a teaching Church whose authority we regard.

 

[TULIPed]

I know you are aware, even though you are a Calvinist, that Catholics believe the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error.

I am literally laughing out loud right now. “I know you are aware…even though you torture squirrels and other cute rodents for fun…” (I know you didn’t mean it like that - just sounds funny!)

We just take it in a little different direction, in that we have a teaching Church whose authority we regard.

As do Calvinists. In my covenant with my church, I agree to (when not torturing koalas ) submit myself to church discipline and teaching. Christian conscience though is more interesting (to me at least) when discussed and though about in “real time”.

I would argue though that where the rubber meets the road is on that road which the Good Samaritan trod. It’s the one where we are called daily to sacrifice what we want for that which helps others. It’s real time “you first, me second.” It’s the 2 great commandments lived out day-to-day. Christian “conscience” is very simply one of humility, love and self sacrifice - no kidding fruit of the Spirit.

 

[fhansen]

How does an individual Catholic know that what the church teaches is likely correct? Well, in point of fact, the teachings need to (in some way) correspond to what I already know to be true and good. When Christ articulated the Golden Rule, I recognize the truth of it. That is to say, it corresponds to how I already believe humans should behave toward each other, even if my apprehension of this is foggy and latent.

Much if this comes from experience- by weighing Church teachings against the world’s ways and values. The older I grow, the more right the Church appears to me. Grace is the other factor, and the more open we are to it, the more God will lead us by and confirm us in the truth. JMO

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

I know you are aware, even though you are a Calvinist , that Catholics believe the Holy Spirit protects the Church from error.

I am literally laughing out loud right now. “I know you are aware…even though you torture squirrels and other cute rodents for fun…” (I know you didn’t mean it like that - just sounds funny!)

Every time a Catholic and a Calvinist find fundamental agreement… somewhere a koala gets just a little bit cuter…

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I just meant that one religion’s fundamental tenets aren’t always known to someone of another religion that doesn’t hold that tenet — quite frankly, if you picked a Catholic at random coming out of Mass any given Sunday, and asked them what they thought about Calvin’s TULIP, they would have no earthly idea what you were talking about. They’d think it was a Dutch flower or something.

Carry on…

Much if this comes from experience- by weighing Church teachings against the world’s ways and values. The older I grow, the more right the Church appears to me. Grace is the other factor, and the more open we are it, the more God will lead us by and confirm us in the truth. JMO

Me too.

The older and crustier I get, the more I look at the larger secular world, just shrug my shoulders and say something like “we’re right… they’re wrong… becomes clearer every day”.

 

[GraceJ]

Thanks for pointing out the specificity of how “primacy of conscience” is used to refer to the sins of the flesh.
A person’s conscience should be well-formed and instructed by the dogma and doctrine of the Catholic Church first and foremost. Anything less is laziness and ignorance. Harsh, maybe, but accurate given human nature.