A
Arkansan
Guest
A man could sit on a hospital bed pretending to give birth just as well as a woman could stand at an altar pretending to say Mass. Only difference is that fewer people would buy it.
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PetraG
Guest
No, it is impossible, because the Pope must be ordained a bishop, and it is impossible to ordain a woman bishop. If the elected person cannot be ordained a bishop, the elected person never assumes the office.I said theoretically, not practically. There is no requirement that a Pope be a priest. Pope Callixtus III was the last non-priest to become Pope in 1455.
“I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.”–St. John Paul II, 1994 “Ordinatio Sacerdotalis”
These days, don’t be so sure.A man could sit on a hospital bed pretending to give birth just as well as a woman could stand at an altar pretending to say Mass. Only difference is that fewer people would buy it.
How would you suggest the Church make certain that her priests have enough resources for the activities of daily life?Your not making sense. A priest is a man who gets up in the morning and performs work for the church. The church pays him a salary for the work he performs. It’s a job. You can call it a super important, even the most important job in the world if you feel so inclined, but it’s a job.
Every Catholic priest has a superior. His superior is responsible for his welfare, including his financial support, whether or not he is engaged in the kind of work that is normally remunerated or not.
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wkj_123
Guest
As far as verifiable reality a man and a woman celebrating mass are 100% the exact same. Not a difference that can be detected. None whatsoever. A man giving birth now…different story.A man could sit on a hospital bed pretending to give birth just as well as a woman could stand at an altar pretending to say Mass. Only difference is that fewer people would buy it.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
???a priest performs work for compensation.
Since when? He fulfills his responsibility and has his basic needs met.
O
OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
Fake news is a serious problem and the media has proven itself to be untrustworthy on the matters of the Church.
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E
EnglishTeacher
Guest
Actually, no. Being a priest is a sacramental state, i.e., one who has received Holy Orders. Once ordained, a man is a priest regardless of whether he receives a salary or is in charge of a parish.No it’s a job I can assure you. Again you can call it a very important job, but a priest performs work for compensation.
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wkj_123
Guest
Oh shoot diocesen priests aren’t paid? I had no idea. Please show me where the church doesn’t pay any of it’s priests for labor and I will amend my post.Since when? He fulfills his responsibility and has his basic needs met.
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wkj_123
Guest
Absolutely. You can be a priest for no pay and a firefighter for no pay. You can also be a priest for pay and a firefighter for pay. Only difference is one totally bars women from the position.Actually, no. Being a priest is a sacramental state, i.e., one who has received Holy Orders. You can be a priest without receiving a salary or without being in charge of a parish
O
OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
People discriminate kids all the time…
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
If you are not fighting fires, though, you can’t be said to be a fire-fighter. A priest is a priest, once ordained, regardless of whether he is regularly offering the sacraments or in charge of a parish or whatever. Being a priest is a permanent sacramental state.Absolutely. You can be a priest for no pay and a firefighter for no pay. You can also be a priest for pay and a firefighter for pay. Only difference is one totally bars women from the position.
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PetraG
Guest
If they can’t work, they’re still paid. They give their obedience to their superiors and their superiors are responsible for their welfare, including financial support.Oh shoot diocesen priests aren’t paid? I had no idea. Please show me where the church doesn’t pay any of it’s priests for labor and I will amend my post.
A Catholic priest is not free to just go work for whatever superior he wants to work for. He has a superior from the day hes ordained, and he can only move from one superior to another with permission.
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wkj_123
Guest
Great. Explain how that means that since women cant be priests it’s not discrimination on the basis of sex?If they can’t work, they’re still paid. They give their obedience to their superiors and their superiors are responsible for their welfare, including financial support.
A Catholic priest is not free to just go work for whatever superior he wants to work for. He has a superior from the day hes ordained, and he can only move from one superior to another with permission.
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wkj_123
Guest
Awesome. Please explain how barring women, because they are women, from doing the things you just said is not descrimination based on sex.If you are not fighting fires, though, you can’t be said to be a fire-fighter. A priest is a priest, once ordained, regardless of whether he is regularly offering the sacraments or in charge of a parish or whatever. Being a priest is a permanent sacramental state.
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wkj_123
Guest
I’m sure they do. Not sure why people are so afraid to call a duck a duck here.People discriminate kids all the time…
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OsculeturMeOsculo
Guest
You ‘quack’ me up.
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PetraG
Guest
Of course it is a discrimination. In this case, to discriminate merely means “recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another.”Great. Explain how that means that since women cant be priests it’s not discrimination on the basis of sex?
It is not an unjust discrimination because the nature of the priesthood restricts the office to human males.
https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-...p-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html
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EnglishTeacher
Guest
They are not “barred.” They cannot do it. A priest by definition is a man. Just as a host to be consecrated by definition is made of wheat and not rice or meat or something else. Just as baptism by definition is done with water and not with milk, etc.Awesome. Please explain how barring women, because they are women, from doing the things you just said is not descrimination based on sex
A woman could go through the motions of offering Mass or confession, but those actions would not constitute a valid sacrament. They might have the appearance of a sacrament, but they would not be a sacrament.
I see you are not a believer, though, so perhaps this is not a fruitful discussion.
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PetraG
Guest
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2018/07/04/180704d.html
This is a very informative document.
As nearly as I can tell, the reason that consecrated virgins are only female is that as the priest is another Christ, the consecrated virgin is another Blessed Virgin Mary.
We praise you,
Virgin Mother of God
Woman of the covenant,
of expectation and fulfilment.
Be the mother and teacher
of consecrated virgins,
so that imitating you
they will receive the Gospel joyfully
and every day
with humility and wonder
discover in it
the holy origin
of their spousal vocation.
Virgin of virgins,
sealed fountain,
gate of heaven,
inspire and accompany
these sisters of ours,
may they have the gift
of spiritual discernment
pilgrims in history
may they live the dynamism
of prophecy
with freedom and courage
with determination and tenderness.
Woman full of grace,
overflowing with charity,
Virgin become Church
bless their journey
so that hope
enlightens their minds
and opens their hearts
guiding every step
and faith
makes their hands industrious
and creative
so may their lives be fruitful
and anticipating here and now
the reality of the Kingdom,
may they generate
and build up the people of God
sharing in its mission
kingly, prophetic and priestly.
We proclaim you blessed
woman of the Magnificat
mother of the living Gospel.
We pray for these sisters.
Gather them in your song
involve them in your dance
so that they follow the Lamb
wherever he goes
with lamps alight.
May they lead us also
to the eternal wedding banquet,
to the final embrace
with the Love
that never ends.
This is a very informative document.
As nearly as I can tell, the reason that consecrated virgins are only female is that as the priest is another Christ, the consecrated virgin is another Blessed Virgin Mary.
We praise you,
Virgin Mother of God
Woman of the covenant,
of expectation and fulfilment.
Be the mother and teacher
of consecrated virgins,
so that imitating you
they will receive the Gospel joyfully
and every day
with humility and wonder
discover in it
the holy origin
of their spousal vocation.
Virgin of virgins,
sealed fountain,
gate of heaven,
inspire and accompany
these sisters of ours,
may they have the gift
of spiritual discernment
pilgrims in history
may they live the dynamism
of prophecy
with freedom and courage
with determination and tenderness.
Woman full of grace,
overflowing with charity,
Virgin become Church
bless their journey
so that hope
enlightens their minds
and opens their hearts
guiding every step
and faith
makes their hands industrious
and creative
so may their lives be fruitful
and anticipating here and now
the reality of the Kingdom,
may they generate
and build up the people of God
sharing in its mission
kingly, prophetic and priestly.
We proclaim you blessed
woman of the Magnificat
mother of the living Gospel.
We pray for these sisters.
Gather them in your song
involve them in your dance
so that they follow the Lamb
wherever he goes
with lamps alight.
May they lead us also
to the eternal wedding banquet,
to the final embrace
with the Love
that never ends.
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H
HeDa
Guest
Read the documents written by our pope John Paul II (now a saint) to start with. There are lots more.
Mulieris Dignitatem on the dignity of women
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...f_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem.html
Ordinis Sacerdotalis on reserving priestly ordination to men alone
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...p-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html
The priesthood is all about serving and bringing people to eternal life in Christ. This is best shown during the Litany of the Saints when the deacon, priest or bishop lays on the floor while everyone else kneels. Being a priest is not a job like any other job. It is first and foremost God who calls the man to the priesthood. Not all men are called to be priests either. If married, then there are exception if he was ordained as a priest in some of the protestant denominations and then becomes Catholic or if he is eastern Catholic otherwise his calling is to be a husband and father. His wife has to agree to him being ordained. A married man can never be ordained as a bishop. If a man is married then his first priority is towards his wife and children and his job is second. A priests priority is the Church 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
Human beings are men or women. None more important than the other but complement one another to make up the human race. A woman becomes woman in relationship to a man and a man becomes man in relationship to a woman. We have different roles a women and men.
Mulieris Dignitatem on the dignity of women
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...f_jp-ii_apl_19880815_mulieris-dignitatem.html
Ordinis Sacerdotalis on reserving priestly ordination to men alone
http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-p...p-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html
The priesthood is all about serving and bringing people to eternal life in Christ. This is best shown during the Litany of the Saints when the deacon, priest or bishop lays on the floor while everyone else kneels. Being a priest is not a job like any other job. It is first and foremost God who calls the man to the priesthood. Not all men are called to be priests either. If married, then there are exception if he was ordained as a priest in some of the protestant denominations and then becomes Catholic or if he is eastern Catholic otherwise his calling is to be a husband and father. His wife has to agree to him being ordained. A married man can never be ordained as a bishop. If a man is married then his first priority is towards his wife and children and his job is second. A priests priority is the Church 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
Human beings are men or women. None more important than the other but complement one another to make up the human race. A woman becomes woman in relationship to a man and a man becomes man in relationship to a woman. We have different roles a women and men.
J
JanSobieskiIII
Guest
A bunch of y’all are talking right past each other.
Women being barred from priesthood is discrimination.
Discrimination is not inherently wrong or unjustified.
Only our modern mindsets drive us to believe that discrimination is inherently unjust.
Discrimination is a necessary part of any well functioning society and organization
Women being barred from priesthood is discrimination.
Discrimination is not inherently wrong or unjustified.
Only our modern mindsets drive us to believe that discrimination is inherently unjust.
Discrimination is a necessary part of any well functioning society and organization
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