"Conservative" versus "Good" Catholic

[stpurl]

Even if it were true that you could find this ‘over and over’ (how many times? 5, 10, 100?) by some self-identified ‘conservative Catholics’ does that make it a conservative position in actual fact? Does it really? I could counter with a whole lot of guff stated as what ‘liberal Catholics’ believe; the usual cited as mentioned ‘over and over’ would be something like, “even if I personally disagree with abortion it should be available as healthcare to those who choose’. Is THAT Catholic? Or Scriptural? But is it, in fact, the position that some or most 'liberal” Catholics actually have? or is it a small minority of loud voices who are going against not just Christian teaching but the whole liberal–or conservative–ethos in these US?

 

[OKComputer]

It didn’t. It only exists in certain places like this forum and various online blogs,

1000% correct. 10,000% correct. 1,000,000% correct. I love online forums, obviously we all do, or else we wouldn’t be here. But some of them can be incredibly polarizing and they don’t represent what most Catholics in America think.

 

[Adamek]

here really was no distinction down political lines at all of the nature of conservative or liberal.

Back then 99 percent of Catholics supported the democrats by default. There was the illusion that that party supported the working class. There was no distinction to be made as Catholic, at least in the rust belt, meant democrat. You can still see this in all the urban centers along the great lakes and the east coast.

Once the democratic party openly abandoned the working class (sometimes called “the middle class”) in favor of Wall Street, there was a bit of a backlash. Still, there are plenty of hippie-era Catholics who are knee-jerk democrats.
In my opinion neither party supports the “working class” or the middle class.
Voting democratic now means supporting “the culture of death” and the obliteration of what once was western culture or civilization, both of which were founded on Christian values.

 

[melonhead]

I’ve always seen it as being a faithful and practicing Catholic, or not.

In regards to politics, it’s a pretty lousy choice, at least her in the U.S. A 2 party system, with neither candidate actually representing Catholic teaching. And on top of that you have a group of mostly liars, I mean press, who distort what candidate actually say to push their agenda, sowing confusion.

 

[EndTimes]

There really was no distinction down political lines at all of the nature of conservative or liberal. How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?

It’s a spinoff from the Polarized Global CounterCultural Secular Politics of the day …

Liberals vs Conservatives …

which in turn soon flowed on into the Church during a time of Grave Liturgical and Theological Abuses.

Those who accepted the spirit of anti-Authority were referred to as Liberal // Heterodox

Those who held onto Church Teachings were “Conservative” // Orthodox

This Division (sign of Satan) exists today…

 

[Asinner]

They just show up on Sundays and receive the sacraments. I’d guess that’s about 90% of American Catholics.

I’m sorry, but you’re bad at guessing. Only about 40% of American Catholics go to Mass on Sundays:

Catholics' Church Attendance Resumes Downward Slide

Unless you just aren’t counting those 60% as Catholic at all, they are the ones properly termed “lapsed Catholics.”

 

[Emeraldlady]

I could counter with a whole lot of guff stated as what ‘liberal Catholics’ believe; the usual cited as mentioned ‘over and over’ “even if I personally disagree with abortion it should be available as healthcare to those who choose’.

Exactly. So 50 years ago both those types of practicing Catholic would be regarded as wishy washy Catholics. Not have their type tied to a political brand. Both types knowing that they don’t fully accept the sound teachings of the Church not because their political identity meant more to them than their Catholic identity.

 

[Emeraldlady]

In my opinion neither party supports the “working class” or the middle class.

And that’s really our fault as Christians. We have potential to be a huge voice in society and there should be no reason why with a united front and sound Catholic doctrine that addresses most areas of life, we can’t demand a party that represents the values we hold dear to the fullest. Christians have allowed themselves to be so loyal to a political brands that they don’t call out any nonChristian aspects of their chosen brand. They focus only on fighting against Christians who don’t share their own political brand.

There must surely be a candidate or 2 who have proved themselves to take an unconditionally prolife stand. Before the last US election I read an article by Bishop Paprocki which I thought was so spot on.

“It is necessary that all participate, each according to his position and role, in promoting the common good. This obligation is inherent in the dignity of the human person. … As far as possible citizens should take an active part in public life” (1913-1915).

The phrase “as far as possible” indicates that there may be legitimate limits to our active participation in public life. For example, priests do not normally hold public offices in the civic sphere. Voters may also legitimately conclude in conscience that they cannot vote for either candidate of the two major political parties. In such cases, voters in most jurisdictions can write in the name of a candidate of their choosing. In all cases, voters can skip voting for a particular office, but still vote for other offices on the ballot.

Bishop Paprocki: ‘Unprecedented and Challenging Election Ahead’

COMMENTARY

www.ncregister.com

 

[MagdalenaRita]

When I was growing up Catholic there were really only two distinctions made regarding what type of Catholic one was. Either “good” which meant practicing faithfully, obedient to Church teaching and submission to the Pope. Or their was ‘lapsed’ Catholics. There really was no distinction down political lines at all of the nature of conservative or liberal. How did this very politicised version of Catholicism come about and should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?

I think there has always been some sort of politics, at least in America, that Catholics have adhered to. I’m not sure what it is like in Australia.

Going by what I was told by my mother was that most Catholics used to be democrat for the reason that the democrats had helping the poor as one of their goals. The Church has always had as one of it’s mission helping the poor.

Today the mission or the goals the parties hold have changed. The liberal democrats have become so liberal and lean more toward socialism, supporting such evils as abortion (under the misguided title of women’s health care), same sex marriage and the breakdown of the family. Many Catholics are switching parties because morally we can just no longer support democrats.

 

[JanR]

Is ignorance bliss?

 

[JanR]

undo God? I’m sure you meant “unto” … In any event, that would be impossible.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Today the mission or the goals the parties hold have changed. The liberal democrats have become so liberal and lean more toward socialism, supporting such evils as abortion (under the misguided title of women’s health care), same sex marriage and the breakdown of the family. Many Catholics are switching parties because morally we can just no longer support democrats.

But this is what I’m finding so defeatist about modern Catholics. The left is not like it used to be so we’ll go and just abandon all of it and vote for the right which is equally unrecognisable. When we learned about the Founding Fathers in Modern History class, (we even colloquially call signatures here ‘John Hancocks’), even without any patriotic feelings, it was very inspiring. They valued a distinct identity and people fought to get what they desired. Freedom, liberty, sovereignty, states united, pledging allegiance. “I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

50 years ago, if a political candidate had gone out to another country in order to undermine an opponent in a national election, they’d have been jailed for treason! And yet this outrageous breach of American sovereignty is today actually being defended because “the left are no good”. It’s mind boggling to outside nations who’ve seen America become great before, doing the actual opposite of what has been done here.

 

[JanR]

I like the term “compassionate conservative”. I think it’s balanced.

 

[Kindnessmatters]

In the US, liberals are pushing God out of all things public; advocating abortion and assisted suicide; pushing the LGBT agenda and increasingly pushing an anti-Christian, anti-Semitic agenda. To be true to Catechism, it is impossible to also be a political liberal.

 

[jack63]

The book the Jesuits by Martin Malachi (copyright 1987) begins with

A state of war exists between the papacy and the Religious Order of the Jesuits

…so these issues that you are seeing have been around for a while. It’s just that now the moderate and liberal Catholics have far more of a voice.

It is strange posting here on CAF. In real life I hardly see myself as liberal. Perhaps I’m a moderate. Here on CAF I’m almost a liberal. It is really the most bizarre thing to me.

The point is that very conservative Catholics have had an inordinately loud voice over the past several decades. This loud voice doesn’t reflect the views of most Catholics. It never did.

 

[Gingersnaps4]

Why not just remove conservative and replace that word with practicing. It is more accurate and takes politics out of the equation.

A conservative Catholic is for conserving Traditional Catholic teaching and a liberal one generally thinks that God’s laws change to suit society. And its often the same with politics, actually…a political conservative is usually for traditional Christian morality and a liberal is not. I know that that seems to conflate politics and religion on the surface but many people choose their politics based on their moral and religious worldview. That, and sometimes they choose a religious view due to a political leaning, which is wrong of course. But the religious differences Among the parties are pretty staggering…70% of conservatives say religion is very important in their life compared to 47% of those on the left. In all areas of the polls, God is a bigger influence for conservatives. Looking at these numbers, it isnt hard to see the cause behind the morality shift in the Democratic Party. I agree that it stinks that religion is conflated with politics, but, as I said above, it can be circular…and it is wrong when a person holds a political view in higher regard than a church teaching.

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewforum.org

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewforum.org

 

[Digitnomy]

There really was no distinction down political lines at all of the nature of conservative or liberal… should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?

No, we should not. Conservative and liberal are useful terms to describe differences in opinion and approach.

This is true whether one is talking about national politics, the rules of baseball, or the Catholic Church.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Typo. All praise and glory goes to God this day and every day!

 

[MagdalenaRita]

But this is what I’m finding so defeatist about modern Catholics. The left is not like it used to be so we’ll go and just abandon all of it and vote for the right which is equally unrecognisable.

Even though I would agree that the political parties on the right are not perfect, nor completely in line with Catholic teaching either, their agenda, at least here in America, has not completey pushed God out as the left has. Here in America there isn’t a lot of choice in voting for some people. It’s the two party system and we have to choose the lesser of two evils. The evil in the party on the left just can’t be accepted. Where I live, my vote doesn’t matter at all though, so I can vote third party if feeling the need but few have that opportunity.

50 years ago, if a political candidate had gone out to another country in order to undermine an opponent in a national election, they’d have been jailed for treason! And yet this outrageous breach of American sovereignty is today actually being defended because “the left are no good”. It’s mind boggling to outside nations who’ve seen America become great before, doing the actual opposite of what has been done here.

I think, perhaps at least until tomorrow, the jury is still out on this one. Plus I don’t think it is being defended because the “left is no good”. The left being no good would be a different issue.

 

[Jimbo]

should we fight urgently to dis-identify with it in every way?

I think so.

Ironically, being deeper in the Church ‘dis-partied’ me. Neither party accurately reflects Christ’s teachings and I don’t vote for either. I’m kind of extreme on this, but whatever party you identify with I believe the Church has some teachings that should challenge you.