"Conservative" versus "Good" Catholic

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Well about 1/3rd of children coming over the border illegally do not belong to the adults they are with. To me that is adequate to shut the border until it’s under control.

Conservatives are not anti-immigrant but rather anti- law breaking. Following laws takes longer but is safer for everyone but criminals.
 
Kindnessmatters said:
Well about 1/3rd of children coming over the border illegally do not belong to the adults they are with. To me that is adequate to shut the border until it’s under control.

Conservatives are not anti-immigrant but rather anti- law breaking. Following laws takes longer but is safer for everyone but criminals.
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But this is exactly the type of division that would make Christ shudder. If I lived in poverty and fear of violence knowing that my childrens future was bleak, I would want very much to go to that country that was proud of its wealth and greatness too. That’s the case for refugees since biblical times and giving shelter to them is one of the great works of mercy. God blesses people who fearlessly give refuge. It seems that many Catholics no longer know that thing about God. They think they have the only social answer there is ie. letting strangers in means a doomed society …or… building a wall to stop every one means a safe society. What happened to the true Catholic spirit of radical love. We never used to call it radical love but we have to find a way to make people realise that Jesus showed a very radical way. He said He would never give anything we couldn’t handle and He said “blessed are the merciful”. Blessed. That actual means we don’t need to fear doing right.
 
You are missing the point entirely. We have one chance…one …to intervene in child trafficking through our country. To do this, given that most coming to the border have no papers (they do get issued in their home countries…this is deliberate) is to at least do what we can to see if the children have been kidnapped, have they been sold, where are they going, who are they with? All this upset over separating families… A kidnapped child cannot speak freely in front of their kidnapper. If we used that standard for our American children of “not separating families”, Elizabeth Smart never would have been rescued.

Are the men and women bringing drugs? Have they been deported before? Are the women coming voluntarily? What are the terms? Are they being sold into sex trafficking? Indentured servitude?

So people are held in detention while we figure things out. This is not cruel, is not punishment…it is the best we can do. Throwing open the border without detention and security will result in hundreds of thousands of women and children being sold for sex.

Of note…there is not a crisis going on that these people are fleeing. They are not being persecuted and are not at war and are not being driven from their homes. Some are poor (many are not) and are still poor when they come into our country. Social justice needs to be just all the way around including to those providing aid.
 
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What galls me is how our own citizens are being neglected in favor of people ILLEGALLY entering our country. Look at the homeless crisis – the tent cities, the filthy conditions on the streets under which our own citizens have to live and/or have to put up with. Nobody in power seems to care about US!

My home state, California, is a mess because of the idiotic policies and unfair laws forced on her citizens by her leaders. I have relatives down there who have personally experienced some of that, and it’s a blatant violation of their Constitutional rights.

It makes me cringe, and it makes me sad. Hubby and I saw the handwriting on the wall a couple of decades ago. We knew where things were going, so we got out of there. But a part of me shall always be a southern California girl. Sometimes, I still get homesick for the place of my roots – then I remember why we left, and I realize it was for the best.

Too bad!
 
Kindnessmatters said:
You are missing the point entirely.
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No you’ve missed my point. There will always be pros and cons in movement of refugees and immigrants around the globe. A couple of years back when we were travelling in the US we had 3 opportunities for Sunday Mass in different places. We noticed that similar to Australia, the local Church is very sustained by immigrant Catholics and their families. In the Youth Adult Ministry of which my children are part, is predominantly young people of immigrant families alive with faith in a way that is lost to many here.

Look at how the example of Angela Merkels Christian motivated welcome of refugees to Germany has very quickly turned to bear fruit for the country.

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/...eaping-economic-benefits-190617194147334.html

That work of mercy that is welcoming strangers in need can never fail to blossom through grace. That is a truth rooted deeply in the Catholic faith. Of course there will be difficulties in the process but they must be overcome without rejecting that work of mercy as an impossible ask.
 
Emeraldlady said:
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Kindnessmatters:
You are missing the point entirely.
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No you’ve missed my point.
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Ahhh…the internet. 😜
 
Kindnessmatters said:
Well about 1/3rd of children coming over the border illegally do not belong to the adults they are with. To me that is adequate to shut the border until it’s under control.
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Yes… Catholic Teachings fully support Borders.

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Kindnessmatters said:
I believe so. The Vatican has walls.
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Virtually every nation (but not quite all over) on Earth has secure Borders

And some have huge walls… …

Central Americans traveling through Mexico face Horror Shows in Mexico…

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Angela Merkel is widely disliked and disagreed with, as crime and huge strains on social resources reach crisis levels in Germany. They do not know how, in much of Europe, to integrate massive crowds who not only disagree, with but actually hate their Judeo-Christian based culture, through Germany and scandanavia.

You are conflating two different things. Legal immigration, particularly for Canada, Australia and the US (as ours are primarily immigrant built nation’s) is the source of our greatest strengths. If legal.

Illegal immigration, however, undermines every virtuous thing we build, including faith and morals and unfairly/unreasonably burdens working Americans. Those seeking help have obligations, too…to do so in respect of what the helpers ask including our laws. Not too different from what we are asked to do as Catholics…we cannot expect God’s mercy to work in our lives if we do not do our part. Being asked for patience in the detention process is a reasonable ask of immigrants who are jumping the line illegally. Bringing proper papers to the border to prove identity and parentage is reasonable to ask of those who object to bring separated from their children.

I can ask you for a meal but have no right to break into your kitchen and take it against your wishes. I have no right to demand what you worked to provide your own children. You are not immoral to refuse to hand over your child’s school supply so.my child can have them at no cost to.me.

I have no moral standing to demand what you are not prepared to give.

It is similar to triage by medical personnel in a war. To help anyone, there must be order in the allocation of resources as well as very tough decisions which may include “pray for him…there is nothing more we can do”. Or, “I am sorry you are hungry but your share is gone”.
 
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Kindnessmatters said:
Angela Merkel is widely disliked and disagreed with as crime and huge strains on social resources reach crisis levels. They do not know how in much of Europe how to integrate massive crowds who not only disagree with but actually hate their Judeo-Christian based culture through Germany and scandanavia.
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The allowed influx of Millions - including former predominately Islamic mercernaries - into the EU -
along with very influential Heterodox theologians of e.g,. Germany,
and Merkel’s connection with NATO’s Expansionism
and the US’s contuous Economic Sanctions to the EU to tow the American Strategic
along with the defensive reactions from USA/EU’s military enemies.

have created an immense mess…

far worse than the pure politics connected with the US’s wide-open almost Wall-Less southern border

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Kindnessmatters said:
Angela Merkel is widely disliked and disagreed with,
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That is just not true. She has been the longest serving state leader in the EU and colloquially regarded as ‘mutti’ (mother) of Germany.
Kindnessmatters said:
as crime and huge strains on social resources reach crisis levels in Germany. They do not know how, in much of Europe, to integrate massive crowds
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As I linked to above, the positives have so far outweighed the negatives for Germany and of course as I said as well, the movement of homeless people around the globe is going to have pros and cons. The big picture is that there are millions of people who are alive and thriving because of Germany’s generous Christian outreach in a time of crisis. My point is that having an unconditionally Christian approach cannot fail to bloom through grace. Angela Merkels decision may be unpopular with the far right nativists who are leading the condemnation, but it will go down in history as an example of Christianity at work at the highest levels of government.
Kindnessmatters said:
who not only disagree, with but actually hate their Judeo-Christian based culture, through Germany and scandanavia.
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Far right populism which falsely claims a Judeo-Christian basis is far more of a threat to the world than Islam.
 
What on earth? Germany has never been an Islamic state. They absolutely are a Judeo-Christian rooted culture.
 
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