Conservatives call on GOP leaders to step down

[ZRight]

A state can secede from the union. If it was good enough for slavery, its good enough for abortion, unless people think that the integrity of the union is more important than the lives of the unborn?

That would be great. Unfortunately, a tyrant named Lincoln declared a “civil war” against the southern states that had seceded from the Union and, victorious, turned the country into a nation. People no longer called the country these United States but instead, the United States in a singular tense. Lincoln also laid the foundations for the U.S. to be an empire/ democracy.

The political issue which Lincoln was willing to go to war over was the power structure of the federal government and the states, known as federalism. The South adhered to the vision of the founders, i.e. of a federal system, with a central (“federal”) government created by the sovereign states and limited in its powers. Because the united states were a union of sovereign states, a state that wished to leave the union could do so at any time. Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence as well as a President of the United States, said so explicitly in public speeches. The South had good reason to oppose Abraham Lincoln’s ridiculous claim that the union was permanent, and that it was “prior to the states.” The war for Southern Independence was won by the union and it led to states that would be subservient to the central government.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

That would be great. Unfortunately, a tyrant named Lincoln declared a “civil war” against the southern states that had seceded from the Union and, victorious, turned the country into a nation. People no longer called the country these United States but instead, the United States in a singular tense. Lincoln also laid the foundations for the U.S. to be an empire/ democracy.

The political issue which Lincoln was willing to go to war over was the power structure of the federal government and the states, known as federalism. The South adhered to the vision of the founders, i.e. of a federal system, with a central (“federal”) government created by the sovereign states and limited in its powers. Because the united states were a union of sovereign states, a state that wished to leave the union could do so at any time. Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence as well as a President of the United States, said so explicitly in public speeches. The South had good reason to oppose Abraham Lincoln’s ridiculous claim that the union was permanent, and that it was “prior to the states.” The war for Southern Independence was won by the union it led to states that would be subservient to the central government.

:clapping:

Someone else who doesn’t buy the Lincoln hype and gets it!

 

[Carlan]

What troubles me most in these political forums are the Christians wno are allowing their own fears to cloud their ability to love, love as Christ taught us to love.
Yes hate the sin but love the sinner.
Why can’t you do as I do, pray for the conversion of President Obama,pray for the conversion of his position on abortion ,Start to pray for his success in governing for the common good of all our people.
Pray for all who are suffering in poverty and pain.
Praise God for all the good things you have in your life, including a magnificent country where freedom of the individual is treasured above all else.
Free to speak our minds,to worship as we choose…most of all praise God we are free to love.
Peace, Carlan

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

What troubles me most in these political forums are the Christians wno are allowing their own fears to cloud their ability to love, love as Christ taught us to love.
Yes hate the sin but love the sinner.
Why can’t you do as I do, pray for the conversion of President Obama,pray for the conversion of his position on abortion ,Start to pray for his success in governing for the common good of all our people.
Pray for all who are suffering in poverty and pain.
Praise God for all the good things you have in your life, including a magnificent country where freedom of the individual is treasured above all else.
Free to speak our minds,to worship as we choose…most of all praise God we are free to love.
Peace, Carlan

Love does not tolerate sin and is not permissive of it.

 

[He_Man]

Yes, but we know the evil will still continue even if by some miracle after 40 years of looking for someone willing and able to get rid of the bad law.
Does it not start with married couples and their responsibility to raise their children to respect their own bodies and their sons to respect the bodies of women, to teach them the value of Chastity.
Good heavens! only today the below the belt scandal of two of our Army Generals is spreading over the world network. What kind of example is this for the young?
We pray God shed your light, have mercy. Carlan

Why can we not do both?

 

[He_Man]

Uh, too easy: because pro-life is not a feeling or a label - it is real action, and a vote is not a seal of approval of a candidate’s heart, mind and soul.

It is a seal of approval of their policies and beliefs, though.

 

[He_Man]

What troubles me most in these political forums are the Christians wno are allowing their own fears to cloud their ability to love, love as Christ taught us to love.
Yes hate the sin but love the sinner.
Why can’t you do as I do, pray for the conversion of President Obama,pray for the conversion of his position on abortion ,Start to pray for his success in governing for the common good of all our people.
Pray for all who are suffering in poverty and pain.
Praise God for all the good things you have in your life, including a magnificent country where freedom of the individual is treasured above all else.
Free to speak our minds,to worship as we choose…most of all praise God we are free to love.
Peace, Carlan

VOting for a man, then praying for his conversion makes no sense. God does not simply tell us to allow evil to run amok and pray for it to go away. We are tasked to take tangible steps to stop it, while praying.

It’s like praying to end the war in Iraq while voting to increase funding.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

VOting for a man, then praying for his conversion makes no sense. God does not simply tell us to allow evil to run amok and pray for it to go away. We are tasked to take tangible steps to stop it, while praying.

It’s like praying to end the war in Iraq while voting to increase funding.

Its like letting an armed man through the front door and then praying for his conversion after he begins taking your stuff. Granted, miracles happen, but…

 

[Mickey]

I don’t use one issue to decide who to support

Funny. Everytime someone tells me that they are pro-life but voted for BO…they usually try to justify it by saying they are not a one issue voter.

and the Church specifically directs us to inform ourselves and consider all issues in order of importance.

The Church tells us that abortion is intrinsically evil. There is nothing proportionate to this.

I see our differences over who to support as equivalent to choosing between sandwiches:

Oh brother…now you are getting a bit silly…and desparate in your justifications.

 

[BroomWagon]

What troubles me most in these political forums are the Christians wno are allowing their own fears to cloud their ability to love, love as Christ taught us to love.
Yes hate the sin but love the sinner.
Why can’t you do as I do, pray for the conversion of President Obama,pray for the conversion of his position on abortion ,Start to pray for his success in governing for the common good of all our people.
Pray for all who are suffering in poverty and pain.
Praise God for all the good things you have in your life, including a magnificent country where freedom of the individual is treasured above all else.
Free to speak our minds,to worship as we choose…most of all praise God we are free to love.
Peace, Carlan

One furthered abortion if one voted against Romney, they voted for the fat cat abortion industry messing with teen aged girls, advising and giving abortions to 90% of the pregnant women they see.

Your talk sounds real cheery, but let’s not forget in reality, in real-ville, your view if you did not vote for Romney is basically supporting and furthering abortion.

Also, what are you saying, your conscience is clear so your voted for Obama?? This is a political forum after all. Social Justice and Moral Theology deal with the straight apologetics debate in these forums so though you are welcome to speak of it here, you might find other debaters there.

Anyone who voted for Obama furthered the abortion industry, fetuses babies died under government cooperation.

Peace be with you, you can be like others have here, carry on a moral argument but at the same time, respectfully, it might be ignoring the truth and the day to day effect.

After all, we know Roe v. Wade in all likelihood, almost 99% would NOT have been reversed, it’s almost not practical to discuss but in turn there was a real good chance of the government’s involvement with the nation’s biggest abortion provider Planned Parenthood to be defunded and out of the government.

Let’s not forget, this is the other side of your moral argument and personal responsibility and I don’t think it is moral or responsible to fund PPH and I think everyone who voted for Obama should remember that now they have that responsibility of supporting abortions in that way.

ProdigalSon1 ignores these important issues, look like you’ve already taken a stetp in this direction as well by presenting an ideological argument.

Peace
BroomWagon

 

[Mickey]

What troubles me most in these political forums are the Christians who are allowing their own fears to cloud their ability to love, love as Christ taught us to love.

Fears? On the contrary my friend. We are not motivated by fear. We are motivated by love for our fellow man. We are motivated by the murder of the child in the womb…the most innocent and helpless of God’s children…the voiceless, choiceless martyrs being killed by the millions.

 

[estesbob]

Fears? On the contrary my friend. We are not motivated by fear. We are motivated by love for our fellow man. We are motivated by the murder of the child in the womb…the most innocent and helpless of God’s children…the voiceless, choiceless martyrs being killed by the millions.

 

[Lapey]

Just in case there was any doubt…please someone call seekerz to see this answer form Fr. V. Serpa!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=728672

 

[CMatt25]

I am not talking about “theologians.”

The bishops were clear. See the USCCB voter guide.

I have YET to hear a convincing case made that Obama would limit the intrinsic evil of abortion more than Romney. It is not possible given that Obama’s STATED POSITION was and is to SUPPORT abortion **on demand **(a sin that cries to Heaven for vengeance - along with homosexual marriage by the way).

But that doesn’t mean one HAD to vote for Romney.

You mean the one that states, “It does not offer a voters guide, scorecard of issues, or direction on how to vote”? And the guide which warns against reducing moral concerns to one or two matters? If so you apparently are correct. Clearly with it not being a voter’s guide nor a direction on how to vote, Catholics did not have to vote for Romney.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9234557&postcount=1

 

[ProVobis]

Congress is needed for an amenendment. You said there are ways to overturn Roe v wade that do not need to involve a president, congress or the supreme court

As the article stated (and Scott restated) a constitutional convention can be called to do this without any Federal action. You yourself have presented material to show that states have been applying restrictions to abortions in increasing fashion. I have to agree that we seem to be making progress there. Now all we have to do is to come up with the proper wording (perhaps even a restatement of the 10th Amendment) which 3/4 of the states (38 to be exact) can agree upon and pass at their convenience. I’m not sure about the timeframe of the entire process but I believe it’s much longer than a session of Congress.

 

[BroomWagon]

Just in case there was any doubt…please someone call seekerz to see this answer form Fr. V. Serpa!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=728672

Thank you for asking this and posting this here. This answer says it all!

 

[Lapey]

You mean the one that states, “It does not offer a voters guide, scorecard of issues, or direction on how to vote”? If so you apparently are correct. Clearly with it not being a voter’s guide nor a direction on how to vote, Catholics did not have to vote for Romney.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9234557&postcount=1

Matt, I think you better look at Fr. Vincelt Serpa’s answer, you ,might have to retract your statement…just saying.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=728672

 

[BroomWagon]

Fears? On the contrary my friend. We are not motivated by fear. We are motivated by love for our fellow man. We are motivated by the murder of the child in the womb…the most innocent and helpless of God’s children…the voiceless, choiceless martyrs being killed by the millions.

Agreed, this is very well said.

Fears? To help out our fellowman? Our little brothers and sisters?

 

[Lapey]

Thank you for asking this and posting this here. This answer says it all!

You’re welcome…this is the first time I’ve gotten such a clean and concise answer, that you Fr. Serpa!!!

 

[Mickey]

Catholics did not have to vote for Romney.

Of course not…we all have free will. But it is clear that a vote for BO…was a vote for abortion, infanticide, homosexual “marriage”, and the repression of religious liberty.

The Catholic Church is especially harmed in the area of religious liberty by this administration because of the contraception mandate. But all Christians had better take notice.

You will see the long battles in the next four years.