Considering converting to the Anglican Church

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nhylan said:
No one is denying any of this happened, why post it over and over?
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Because it is something that is permitted and celebrated, within the Episcopal Church and thus may be of interest to some (not necessarily the OP) who are considering the Episcopal Church as a home.

GKC
 
the Op is considering converting which he/she has a right to do, but he/she needs to know about this to make an informed decision. That is why I originally asked how OP felt about abortion. If it is an important issue to OP and OP is prolife then she needs to know what is happening in the Episcopal church on that issue. Op did not mention abortion but many of us are very prolife and if she is, then I think she is probably is going to have issues with the Episcopal church, that is all.
 
redroselover said:
the Op is considering converting which he/she has a right to do, but he/she needs to know about this to make an informed decision. That is why I originally asked how OP felt about abortion. If it is an important issue to OP and OP is prolife then she needs to know what is happening in the Episcopal church on that issue. Op did not mention abortion but many of us are very prolife and if she is, then I think she is probably is going to have issues with the Episcopal church, that is all.
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Given the original post, I suspect the OP knows this.

GKC
 
nhylan said:
No one is denying any of this happened, why post it over and over?
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Check the posting times. We all posted together, within a few minutes of each other.

P.S. Ordaining noncelibate SSA people and blessing their marriages is in contradiction to both Sacred Scripture and to the Sacred Tradition that God the Father and God the Son established with the Apostles.
 
I would like to begin by saying thank you to the many people who responded to my OP with their advice. I am also glad to see that not everyone who responded was Catholic. I say this because I think it is good to have a mix of perspectives on this issue.

I would also like to add though that I am sad to see the fighting that is taking place on this thread and that in only a matter of hours a moderator felt the need to step in to remind people to be charitable towards one another.

Now, many of you have rightly said that the Catholic Church does not teach homosexuality itself is a sin, only acting on those inclinations is. I should have worded my OP a little better. I know that this is the teaching, but I still can’t come to agree with it.

As for married priests in the Catholic Church, I’m pretty sure I mentioned (albeit briefly) in my OP that I am aware that the Church allows priests in some eastern rites to marry. While switching rites could be one “solution” to my problems I do not think it resolves my issues entirely.

Also, and I should have said this in the OP but didn’t, I know there will never be a church that I agree with 100%. I know there will always be at least little differences. However, some of the disagreements I have with the Church are rather big. And the fact is that I feel a bit like a liar if I go to Mass, etc. the whole while disagreeing with the Church on very important matters. My problem is whether or not I can, in good conscience, remain in the Church despite these disagreements. By believing that the Church is incorrect on some of these matters which She has officially ruled on would mean I believe that the Church can be wrong in its official doctrine. If this is the case, then even if I only had one disagreement I would shaking the very foundation of the all other beliefs the Church teaches. I don’t know if I explained myself as well as I would have liked just now, so if the previous few sentences were confusing I apologize.

I should also clarify that I am not just sitting here thinking “hmmm…I just don’t like this or that so I should go and convert.” My faith is extremely important to me and I do not take the possibility of converting lightly. It has taken me some time just to admit outside of my own thoughts that I am considering converting. If I do end up leaving the Catholic Church it will only be able careful consideration.

I would like to also thank those of you who warned me about the various strands of Anglicanism and the recent exodus from the Anglican Church to the Catholic Church. I am aware of these facts, but since I didn’t mention them in my OP there’s no way anyone could have known that. I don’t really feel the number of adherents is a deal-breaker for me. True the Anglican Church is not as populous as the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church also has many many members who are Catholics in name only, never actually practicing their faith. The traffic seems to be (as another poster put it) a two-way street as far as people leaving one Church for the other as regards the Catholics and Anglicans.

By converting to the Anglican Church what I meant was the Episcopal Church of the USA. I know about some of the more liberal things that this part of the Anglican Church does and I must admit I approve of most of them. The one exception being their more liberal view on abortion. I do not believe in abortion. I’m going to give you all a rough idea of where I stand on certain contentious issues so that perhaps my dilemma will be clearer to you all. But know that I am mainly focusing on issues that would put me at odds with what the Catholic Church teaches (though I’ve included a few of the major beliefs I share with the Catholic Church).

Brief (over-simplified and incomplete) breakdown of my views:
  1. I am pro-life.
  2. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin (whether in thought or deed so long as the same requirements are met as are needed in heterosexual relationships).
  3. I believe women should be allowed to become priests.
  4. I believe that priests should have the option to marry.
  5. I believe in the Real Presence.
  6. I believe in the Marian dogmas.
I do intend to talk to a Catholic priest about this as well as an Episcopal priest very soon. I am not going to talk to my current parish priest however as he has only been my priest for about 10 months (I moved to a new town). So I plan on making an appointment with my previous parish priest who I knew for a longer time and whom I have a closer relationship with (plus he strikes me as more knowledgeable as well). As for Episcopal priests, since I don’t know any I am probably going to just make an appointment to speak with the priest at the nearest Episcopal church to me, which is only a few blocks away.

As I’m pretty sure I mentioned in my OP, before I came back to the Church I examined the beliefs of numerous Christian denominations. Soon I had narrowed down the ones that seemed most true to me to three: Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican. While I appreciate the beauty and tradition of the Orthodox Church I didn’t feel a call to become Orthodox then, nor do I feel such a call now.

Again, I do not intend to just go out and switch churches on a whim, which is why I started this thread to begin with. I wanted feedback from the wonderful people on CAF and I certainly got some. 😉

I know I did not address each and every comment that you all made in your various posts. I apologize, but honestly it would have taken far too long (and probably multiple posts) in order to do so. Know that I read each post (although I only skimmed the ones that involved several posters arguing with one another) and that I am taking into consideration what you have all said. I really appreciate the time you have taken on your responses and your desire to help me. 🙂
 
As I said, I feel you will fit into the current Episcopal Church with few problems.

GKC
 
I think the first issue you need to address is if you accept the authority of the church, which involves accepting that God has entrusted it to the apostles under Peter, and their successors. This is key.

I would spend a lot of time right there with that issue before you address anything else.
 
GKC said:
As I said, I feel you will fit into the current Episcopal Church with few problems.

GKC
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That, I might suggest, should give you cause for concern.

Joining the liberal US Episcopal Church today is like boarding the Titanic just as the lifeboats are becoming scarce…
 
Now, many of you have rightly said that the Catholic Church does not teach homosexuality itself is a sin, only acting on those inclinations is. I should have worded my OP a little better. I know that this is the teaching, but I still can’t come to agree with it.
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Then you must have difficulty agreeing with Sacred Scripture, where it’s recorded that a group of men in Sodom attempted to have sex with two male angels at Lot’s home.

Or where St. Paul writes in Romans 1:24-28
Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
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And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.
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JesusforMadrid said:
That, I might suggest, should give you cause for concern.

Joining the liberal US Episcopal Church today is like boarding the Titanic just as the lifeboats are becoming scarce…
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I take it you have not read my first post in this thread.

GKC
 
leastofthese said:
I would like to also thank those of you who warned me about the various strands of Anglicanism and the recent exodus from the Anglican Church to the Catholic Church. I am aware of these facts, but since I didn’t mention them in my OP there’s no way anyone could have known that. I don’t really feel the number of adherents is a deal-breaker for me. True the Anglican Church is not as populous as the Catholic Church, but the Catholic Church also has many many members who are Catholics in name only, never actually practicing their faith. The traffic seems to be (as another poster put it) a two-way street as far as people leaving one Church for the other as regards the Catholics and Anglicans.

By converting to the Anglican Church what I meant was the Episcopal Church of the USA. I know about some of the more liberal things that this part of the Anglican Church does and I must admit I approve of most of them. The one exception being their more liberal view on abortion. I do not believe in abortion. I’m going to give you all a rough idea of where I stand on certain contentious issues so that perhaps my dilemma will be clearer to you all. But know that I am mainly focusing on issues that would put me at odds with what the Catholic Church teaches (though I’ve included a few of the major beliefs I share with the Catholic Church).

Brief (over-simplified and incomplete) breakdown of my views:
  1. I am pro-life.
  2. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin (whether in thought or deed so long as the same requirements are met as are needed in heterosexual relationships).
  3. I believe women should be allowed to become priests.
  4. I believe that priests should have the option to marry.
  5. I believe in the Real Presence.
  6. I believe in the Marian dogmas.
I do intend to talk to a Catholic priest about this as well as an Episcopal priest very soon. I am not going to talk to my current parish priest however as he has only been my priest for about 10 months (I moved to a new town). So I plan on making an appointment with my previous parish priest who I knew for a longer time and whom I have a closer relationship with (plus he strikes me as more knowledgeable as well). As for Episcopal priests, since I don’t know any I am probably going to just make an appointment to speak with the priest at the nearest Episcopal church to me, which is only a few blocks away.

As I’m pretty sure I mentioned in my OP, before I came back to the Church I examined the beliefs of numerous Christian denominations. Soon I had narrowed down the ones that seemed most true to me to three: Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican. While I appreciate the beauty and tradition of the Orthodox Church I didn’t feel a call to become Orthodox then, nor do I feel such a call now.

Again, I do not intend to just go out and switch churches on a whim, which is why I started this thread to begin with. I wanted feedback from the wonderful people on CAF and I certainly got some. 😉

I know I did not address each and every comment that you all made in your various posts. I apologize, but honestly it would have taken far too long (and probably multiple posts) in order to do so. Know that I read each post (although I only skimmed the ones that involved several posters arguing with one another) and that I am taking into consideration what you have all said. I really appreciate the time you have taken on your responses and your desire to help me. 🙂
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Thanks you for your candid expression of your views. Given 2,3, and 6 (especially the Immaculate Conception) I think you will not be comfortable in the Orthodox Church, since those points don’t square with their understanding of Scripture or the Fathers and thus will not likely be accepted by Orthodoxy.
 
leastofthese said:
To help clarify the situation, I was baptized into the Catholic Church shortly after I was born. My family is Catholic on both sides. I received First Communion and Confirmation at the typical ages. Unfortunately, my mother was not very devout when I was young (and my father is a deadbeat). So my faith formation largely became the responsibility of the lay folks who worked in the Church’s Sunday school program. However, these people (however well-intentioned) were far too young and far too uninformed about their faith. At 12 years old I remember asking them pretty standard questions and either stumping them or inadvertantly making them so angry with me that I eventually stopped going to Sunday school and to church altogether.
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How unfortunate
l:
Those points of morality/faith that I didn’t agree with I told myself I would come to understand and agree with the Church in time.

But that didn’t quite happen. there are some things that after years of being back I just can’t accept. I can’t accept the Church’s teachings on: sexual ethics (i.e. homosexuality, etc.), papal infailability, women’s ordination, the celibate priesthood, etc. I tried and tried to accept these teachings, believing that the reason I could not accept them was because I lacked knowledge or grace. But after years now of educating myself and praying for the grace to understand and accept these and other teachings I feel I am at a crossroads.

Two of the biggest problems I have are with the Church’s stance on homosexuality and with the the Latin-rite Church’s stance on having an exclusively unmarried priesthood.
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I’m curious, why is this a daunting list for you
    • sexual ethics (i.e. homosexuality, etc.),
    • papal infailability,
    • women’s ordination,
    • celibate priesthood
    The Church didn’t invent ANY of the positions she takes on these matters.
    l:
    Just to clarify, no I am not a homosexual. But I do have several very close and dear friends who are. One in particular is a devout Catholic, who I am happy to say I helped bring back to the Church (he continued to believe in the Church all along but felt unwelcome in any given parish because of his sexuality). I can’t believe that just because he is a homosexual that he is going to hell.
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    If someone turned that around and said
    heterosexuals who commit adultery and fornication, and die in those sins won’t go to heaven.
    Is this unwelcoming? I guess it is, since Paul said one isn’t going to enjoy heaven if they die in these sins.

    behavior DOES have consequences in scripture. … for heterosexuals AND homosexuals [1 Cor 6:9-11], [Eph 5:5]
    l:
    My other big problem is quite personal. The priesthood. I have felt a call to the priesthood for a couple of years now, but I also feel called to married life. I have prayed and prayed to God to give me clarity and to show me which vocation is my true calling. But in the end I keep feeling that I am called to both. I do know that some of the Eastern-rites in the Church allow for priests to marry, but this must be before ordination and if their spouse dies they cannot remarry.

    So now I am facing a question I faced when I first started to come back to the Church. When I first felt the call to practice my faith again I didn’t immediatley go back to the Catholic Church. I investigated several Christian denominations first. I ended up focusing on the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and the Anglican Church. I was very torn in the end between the Catholic and Anglican Churches. Now I feel the pull to convert to the Anglican Church again.
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    I think it’s safe to say, and you would most likely agree, that your being uncommitted on what Church you should be in, and why, would disqualify you from seminaries within any rite in the Catholic Church, or seminaries within E Orthodoxy…right?

    So I’m sure that’s why you are returning to Anglicanism…right?
    l:
    .
    I don’t know what to do though. While I agree with much of the teachings of the Anglican Church and their worship style is similar to the style of the Mass there are big issues I still haven’t come to terms with. The biggest issue being the Holy Eucharist. I know some Anglicans believe in the Real Presence, but not all do. I do not know if I am convinced that the Anglican Church has true Apostolic succession and thus valid sacraments. I also find it hard to overcome the fact that the Anglican Church was not founded out of deep religious or moral convictions (like numerous other Protestant churches were) but rather it owes its existence to a spat that King Henry VIII had with the Pope.
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    Q’s:
    • Why do you want to be a priest?
    • Where did you learn that personal moral conviction qualifies an individual to start his own church?
 
While you appear to very thoughtful and sincere in your search, faith is not solely an act of the intellect. When Jesus said in order to have eternal life you must eat My Body and Blood and everyone started to abandon him…St Peter didn’t say “well I understand what you mean and I accept it”…he said where else shall i go?

If you honestly believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus …than I am not sure how you could go anywhere else? (Anglicans don’t believe that.) Also if you believe that…you have to ask if God would empower the Church to make Jesus present through the Eucharist, why wouldn’t He also empower the Church to teach on his behalf. Which is the greater miracle?
 
In most Anglican congregations I have seen, a portion of the people are for whatever reason, former Catholics. Perhaps they had an irreconcilable difference with the church or a church teaching. You have to do what is right for you and go where your convictions lead you.
 
idigtonka said:
While you appear to very thoughtful and sincere in your search, faith is not solely an act of the intellect. When Jesus said in order to have eternal life you must eat My Body and Blood and everyone started to abandon him…St Peter didn’t say “well I understand what you mean and I accept it”…he said where else shall i go?

If you honestly believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus …than I am not sure how you could go anywhere else? (Anglicans don’t believe that.) Also if you believe that…you have to ask if God would empower the Church to make Jesus present through the Eucharist, why wouldn’t He also empower the Church to teach on his behalf. Which is the greater miracle?
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Anglicans believe a variety of things. Depends on which one you ask. Many affirm (for example) Trent, Session XIII, Canon 1.

GKC
 
GKC said:
Anglicans believe a variety of things. Depends on which one you ask. Many affirm (for example) Trent, Session XIII, Canon 1.

GKC
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Such is the issue with Anglicanism. I love the tradition, itself, I admire the Wesley brothers who lived worked and died as Anglicans, and many Anglicans are loving, Christian people who live out a robust faith. Anglicanism’s weakness is that it today has no unity of faith, nothing meaty to sick ones teeth into, or nothing that makes you say, this is distinctly Anglican.
 
JohnnyReb said:
Such is the issue with Anglicanism. I love the tradition, itself, I admire the Wesley brothers who lived worked and died as Anglicans, and many Anglicans are loving, Christian people who live out a robust faith. Anglicanism’s weakness is that it today has no unity of faith, nothing meaty to sick ones teeth into, or nothing that makes you say, this is distinctly Anglican.
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Motley. That’s them. Distinctly motley.The whole crew.

GKC
 
leastofthese said:
Brief (over-simplified and incomplete) breakdown of my views:
  1. I am pro-life.
  2. I do not believe homosexuality is a sin (whether in thought or deed so long as the same requirements are met as are needed in heterosexual relationships).
  3. I believe women should be allowed to become priests.
  4. I believe that priests should have the option to marry.
  5. I believe in the Real Presence.
  6. I believe in the Marian dogmas.
I do intend to talk to a Catholic priest about this as well as an Episcopal priest very soon. I am not going to talk to my current parish priest however as he has only been my priest for about 10 months (I moved to a new town). So I plan on making an appointment with my previous parish priest who I knew for a longer time and whom I have a closer relationship with (plus he strikes me as more knowledgeable as well). As for Episcopal priests, since I don’t know any I am probably going to just make an appointment to speak with the priest at the nearest Episcopal church to me, which is only a few blocks away.

As I’m pretty sure I mentioned in my OP, before I came back to the Church I examined the beliefs of numerous Christian denominations. Soon I had narrowed down the ones that seemed most true to me to three: Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican. While I appreciate the beauty and tradition of the Orthodox Church I didn’t feel a call to become Orthodox then, nor do I feel such a call now.

Again, I do not intend to just go out and switch churches on a whim, which is why I started this thread to begin with. I wanted feedback from the wonderful people on CAF and I certainly got some. 😉

I know I did not address each and every comment that you all made in your various posts. I apologize, but honestly it would have taken far too long (and probably multiple posts) in order to do so. Know that I read each post (although I only skimmed the ones that involved several posters arguing with one another) and that I am taking into consideration what you have all said. I really appreciate the time you have taken on your responses and your desire to help me. 🙂
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Well, after reading through this post, I would most definitely say that you would make a fine Old Catholic or Polish National Catholic. [Although I am not sure if they use Polish in liturgy even in the US?]
I have studied their faith and I would say their teaching fits, let’s say, 80% with your conviction.
Another point that became big in me yesterday evenening (CET) was that you maybe could also have a look into the LCMS Church. They are also quite “Catholic”.

in Christ,
Esdra
 
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