L
LivingWaters7
Guest
Let me preface this by saying that I am very hesitant to post this thread, since I don’t want this to turn into a negative post with personal attacks or attacks against other faiths (whether from Catholics, ex-LDS, LDS, etc etc).
So I’ve been thinking a lot lately that much in the faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is difficult to understand and deal with, especially in the context of historical/ancient Judeo-Christian faith(s) and the records we have from Biblical times and immediately after. There is a lot in Mormonism that I love, such as:
-the temple
-eternal marriage
-continuing revelation
-apostles and prophets to this day
-emphasis on scripture study
At the same time, there’s much that is very troubling, at least for me, such as:
-priesthood ban-I’ve tried to rationalize this many times, and used to say that we simply don’t know why it came about (perhaps we really don’t) or why it was perpetuated. We know that the priesthood was restricted by lineage in Old Testament times, yet I don’t see how we could accept that after Jesus Christ and His Great Commission, this sort of restriction would be acceptable or make sense.
-the Eucharist-When I read the New Testament, I really don’t see any other way to interpret Christ’s words than Real Presence. Also, out of all the issues, I think this is the one that is SO clear in the writings of the ECFs. While some Latter-day Saint apologists and scholars will refer to certain writings to show ancient evidence of a unique LDS belief, I don’t see any evidence that the ancient Christians believed in a symbolic, non-Real Presence, understanding of the Eucharist.
-the Godhead-I can understand both perspectives on this. I fully believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct from each other (they are not each other). That is of course compatible with the Trinity doctrine. I don’t really have a problem with the Father being embodied. What I am troubled by is the belief that God was once a man (no, I don’t believe that LDS generally hold that He was once a sinful man. Instead, LDS tend to believe that He was a man in the same way that Christ was), and the implications of that, i.e., infinite regress of Gods. It makes much more sense, and seems to comport more with the Bible, to believe that God has eternally existed as God, did not progress to Godhood (another issue I have), etc.
-evidences for the Book of Mormon-I’ve been reading a few inspirational Christian books, and obviously they all focus on the Bible. The more I read these and look into them, the more I wonder why the Book of Mormon is needed. Also, there is confusion as to where the Book of Mormon actually took place. LDS apologists and scholars disagree on where things are located, and it seems like each position could be valid based on what the person says.
-the Apostasy-this of course is the main issue. Was there really an apostasy of the Church of Jesus Christ? Was it predicted in the Bible? I have seen verses given as evidence of a total apostasy of the ancient Church, yet some seem to be referring to something else (like ancient Israel in the verses about a famine of hearing the word of God). I’m reading this debate between an LDS and a Catholic to see both perspectives.
And along with the Apostasy is the Restoration. Now, LDS apologists and scholars many times refer to various statements by early Christians and/or fringe Christian groups as evidencing LDS beliefs. Yet, there is absolutely no evidence of a single, unified, ancient Church of Jesus Christ that held these beliefs.
So now what?-Well, that’s where I’m at now. I’ve decided to start reading some critical (not “anti”) books and resources to more understand that perspective. I know I’ve mentioned before on this board that I have many critical and anti (noting the difference) books, articles, websites, etc. I’ll start looking at Mormon Think again, and I just pulled “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins” and “One Nation Under Gods” off the shelf, and am starting Insider’s. Any other suggested resources (not interested in CARM, Tanner’s, or anything of the sort). Just want to understand the “other side” and make an informed decision. I’m familiar with the “other side”, having been there before my conversion, yet I would appreciate any other thoughts as well.
Some of you may wonder why I don’t just walk away. Well! I wish it was that easy. As a convert of many years, I luckily don’t have family as members, though I have many friends (I’m in my 20s). I also serve as Elders Quorum President right now. I don’t see how I could just fade away like some of the people that we’re trying to “reactivate” do. Not sure what to do about that. And of course I haven’t written off Mormonism at this point, just strongly questioning. Guess I’m missing Catholicism what with the being in the midst of electing a new Pope, and I was thinking about how I missed walking around the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, lighting candles there, feeling connected to something ancient, etc.
Anyway, just wanted to share, and appreciate thoughts from all perspectives. I have more thoughts on this, but have to run to work, and wanted to get this in before I run. I’ll post again late tonight/tomorrow. Oh and I don’t accept PMs (for various reasons), so I’d appreciate thoughts posted in the thread.
So I’ve been thinking a lot lately that much in the faith of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is difficult to understand and deal with, especially in the context of historical/ancient Judeo-Christian faith(s) and the records we have from Biblical times and immediately after. There is a lot in Mormonism that I love, such as:
-the temple
-eternal marriage
-continuing revelation
-apostles and prophets to this day
-emphasis on scripture study
At the same time, there’s much that is very troubling, at least for me, such as:
-priesthood ban-I’ve tried to rationalize this many times, and used to say that we simply don’t know why it came about (perhaps we really don’t) or why it was perpetuated. We know that the priesthood was restricted by lineage in Old Testament times, yet I don’t see how we could accept that after Jesus Christ and His Great Commission, this sort of restriction would be acceptable or make sense.
-the Eucharist-When I read the New Testament, I really don’t see any other way to interpret Christ’s words than Real Presence. Also, out of all the issues, I think this is the one that is SO clear in the writings of the ECFs. While some Latter-day Saint apologists and scholars will refer to certain writings to show ancient evidence of a unique LDS belief, I don’t see any evidence that the ancient Christians believed in a symbolic, non-Real Presence, understanding of the Eucharist.
-the Godhead-I can understand both perspectives on this. I fully believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct from each other (they are not each other). That is of course compatible with the Trinity doctrine. I don’t really have a problem with the Father being embodied. What I am troubled by is the belief that God was once a man (no, I don’t believe that LDS generally hold that He was once a sinful man. Instead, LDS tend to believe that He was a man in the same way that Christ was), and the implications of that, i.e., infinite regress of Gods. It makes much more sense, and seems to comport more with the Bible, to believe that God has eternally existed as God, did not progress to Godhood (another issue I have), etc.
-evidences for the Book of Mormon-I’ve been reading a few inspirational Christian books, and obviously they all focus on the Bible. The more I read these and look into them, the more I wonder why the Book of Mormon is needed. Also, there is confusion as to where the Book of Mormon actually took place. LDS apologists and scholars disagree on where things are located, and it seems like each position could be valid based on what the person says.
-the Apostasy-this of course is the main issue. Was there really an apostasy of the Church of Jesus Christ? Was it predicted in the Bible? I have seen verses given as evidence of a total apostasy of the ancient Church, yet some seem to be referring to something else (like ancient Israel in the verses about a famine of hearing the word of God). I’m reading this debate between an LDS and a Catholic to see both perspectives.
And along with the Apostasy is the Restoration. Now, LDS apologists and scholars many times refer to various statements by early Christians and/or fringe Christian groups as evidencing LDS beliefs. Yet, there is absolutely no evidence of a single, unified, ancient Church of Jesus Christ that held these beliefs.
So now what?-Well, that’s where I’m at now. I’ve decided to start reading some critical (not “anti”) books and resources to more understand that perspective. I know I’ve mentioned before on this board that I have many critical and anti (noting the difference) books, articles, websites, etc. I’ll start looking at Mormon Think again, and I just pulled “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins” and “One Nation Under Gods” off the shelf, and am starting Insider’s. Any other suggested resources (not interested in CARM, Tanner’s, or anything of the sort). Just want to understand the “other side” and make an informed decision. I’m familiar with the “other side”, having been there before my conversion, yet I would appreciate any other thoughts as well.
Some of you may wonder why I don’t just walk away. Well! I wish it was that easy. As a convert of many years, I luckily don’t have family as members, though I have many friends (I’m in my 20s). I also serve as Elders Quorum President right now. I don’t see how I could just fade away like some of the people that we’re trying to “reactivate” do. Not sure what to do about that. And of course I haven’t written off Mormonism at this point, just strongly questioning. Guess I’m missing Catholicism what with the being in the midst of electing a new Pope, and I was thinking about how I missed walking around the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception, lighting candles there, feeling connected to something ancient, etc.
Anyway, just wanted to share, and appreciate thoughts from all perspectives. I have more thoughts on this, but have to run to work, and wanted to get this in before I run. I’ll post again late tonight/tomorrow. Oh and I don’t accept PMs (for various reasons), so I’d appreciate thoughts posted in the thread.
That isn’t to say I don’t understand the reasoning the LDS have for staying in LDS church, because I do, it just doesn’t fly with me.
