Considering Leaving Mormonism For Traditional Christianity...

[RebeccaJ]

I almost was one. There is an Antiochian church I attended in SLC before I really dug into church history and theology, which led me to the Roman Catholic faith. A few parishioners were former Mormons. Most were former protestants.

The theory has been proven!

 

[RebeccaJ]

Anyway, I through myself into the church for the past few months, and it was through reading Galatians in my NIV student Bible that things began to crumble for me… again. It was in reading the Introduction where it explains that Paul was angry and saw ominous dangers for the church. One was that people would begin to believe that they could get acceptance by God by their own human effort (works), and not Christ’s sacrifice. The other was insistence to strict rules would bring the side effect of subtle distinctions. In doing that, we would begin to snub or look down on one another. In the end, these 2 things would pervert the gospel and divide the church.

Well I saw BOTH of those things within the LDS church. You can say we (the LDS church) believe in Christs sacrifice and atonement. I have read some of your other posts while doing my own research today. But the fact remains we can not attain the highest level of glory, or live in the presence of God in Heaven unless we hold a temple recommend, And in order to do that we must follow and obey the Word of Wisdom- we must give up coffee, tea, alcohol, and tobacco. We must pay a full tithe of 10%. We must accept Joseph as a Prophet of God. So right there we have to accept someone who is NOT Jesus before we can get to the temple in order to gain access to God. And we must do acts, or works to get the recommend to get this, and get into the heaven where God lives. Once we get the recommend then we must get endowed, get sealed, and obey all temple covenants to complete our ability to live with God one day. Again, works. I am not trying to lecture you, please don’t take it that way… I am trying to explain my own rationale as this was unraveling for me in my own head

Anyway, your post finally sparked me into making an account so I can say in a very long-winded post, “You are not alone”. I have already sent an e-mail to my closest Catholic church in order to get “their side”, get answers/truth, and hopefully learn more about the hirstory of everything that went down. I also encourage you to go to forum.newordermormon.org/viewforum.php?f=11 This site was instrumental in finding other like me. Many have ultimately left, some have stayed, and others are still like us in limbo. It’s helpful to NOT be alone.

Best of luck, and best wishes…

I feel for you, having jumped ship and stayed off it for most off my life. I raised my daughter as an atheist, but with a strong teaching that if she chose to believe in God(s), religions, etc., the choice was hers to make. She’s a college student now, doing fine, and says she is agnostic. It is the main reason the “Mormons are good people” doesn’t fly with me, as an indicator of “truth”. The majority of people, of all faiths, or no faith, are good people, who love their families/children, want the best for them and make personal sacrifices to their family’s benefit.

ANYWAY! I think it is a false dichotomy to say that because Mormonism is false, everything is false. I understand that the collapse of faith can lead to questioning everything presented as “truth”. But God has not left us to wander. I think that is one of the main message of Mormonism, that God did in fact leave us to wander, until Joseph Smith came along. Former LDS retain this belief, even in their proclaimed non-belief of anything and everything. At least, that is what I experienced, and what I see in arguments that deny all religious truths.

As an atheist, anything and everything of spiritual experiences could be explained away. But the reality of my experience is, I had events in my life that couldn’t be explained away. As an atheist, any explanation was plausible, as long as that explanation wasn’t GOD. In the end, I saw through atheism in the same way I saw through Mormonism.

It was a painful process, no doubt, to find myself in a sea of nothing. It was a very dark period of my life, spiritually, emotionally and even physically. It affected everything, my job, my family, my emotional and psychological well being.

So I set out to search for something. I think that journey is well worth the effort, and so I advise you and LW to not give up, no matter where it leads you. Mormonism also give a sense, in some ways, that something that is spiritually difficult is an indicator of “wrong direction”. That is not how I think as a Catholic. Sometimes God cleanses us with fire.

Pray for guidance. For myself, at that point in my life, I worried that my prayers were just expressions of what I thought was truth, and not Truth itself. So I kept my prayer very simple, for a long time (over a year at least). “God lead me to you.” You can believe, when I saw myself being led to Christ, in the Catholic Church, I started to ask, “Really, this is where you are leading me?” I would have never imagined, or even sought, to become Catholic. I was only looking to understand Christianity, from its roots. That was it, I had no intention of converting. God had different ideas. There was a point where I had to take a leap of faith, and that my friend, was the most terribly frightening thing I have ever done. I feared I was jumping off a cliff and was going to find myself splattered and broken at the bottom. But that isn’t what happened. God held me, and continues to my great astonishment, to do so.

God bless you.

Rebecca

 

[Marie5890]

Tradition has it that Our Lady revealed the Rosary unto St. Dominic in the 13th century. There is, of course, a modern scholarly view which echoes your own. I attend a Dominic parish and from what I’ve heard from various homilies given before a Novena, the brothers at my church are pretty evenly split on which position to take.

Thanks…

I guess the most honest answer to how it evolved is murky at best…I found this which explains what is, and what is not, known of it’s history

ewtn.com/library/answers/rosaryhs.htm

 

[LivingWaters7]

One can essentially point to any Catholic mystic, visionary, or person fortunate enough to have experienced an apparition. There doesn’t exist an exhaustive list of such Catholic prophecies, and as I understand it, there were a couple dozen just in the last century alone. How many were officially approved by the Church as “worthy of belief” I cannot say, and its not a subject I much follow to be perfectly honest. One of the much more recent ones alleging to have foretold the Rwandan Genocide seems quite compelling to me, though I’m still trying to find out if the seers had ever recounted their stories prior to the start of the genocide. Unfortunately the only information about chronology I can find concerns when their Bishop judged the apparition worthy.

Ah interesting. Yeah, I assumed you were thinking of the various Catholic mystics, visionaries, etc. I certainly find those occurrences noteworthy, especially how some events are accepted while others are rejected by the investigating Catholic authorities. Also interesting to see that within the last century there have been a “couple dozen”, since skeptics of religion would claim that religious experiences such as those (and even Joseph Smith’s experiences) are lost in “less advanced” times.

I do find the alleged Eucharistic miracles such as Lanciano, as well as the incorruptibles, Marian apparitions, etc. intriguing (not that I necessarily believe them, but that they are interesting, especially when they occur closer to our time period).

Concerning Bickmore’s rebuttal you quoted, I’m not very impressed by his debating tactics. For example:

Bickmore is committing the fallacy of composition here. As I stated earlier, The apostles were a subset of bishops. They were indeed the very first bishops, but that does not make all bishops apostles! He asserts, fallaciously, that as successors to the apostles, bishops necessarily must exercise the same charismata as the apostles since apostles are part of the episcopacy.

Did you catch that sleight of hand!? In defining Papal Infallibility, Goldstein tells us that infallibility does not mean the Pope is inspired. Yet this doesn’t preclude any particular Pope from being inspired. Bickmore then takes the inverse, builds a strawman with it, and proceeds to torch the sucker the ground. “It doesn’t mean the Pope is inspired” is not equivalent to “It means the Pope is not inspired”.

Right, thanks for the rebuttal, that does make sense to me.

For the duration of his quote, I get the sense that he’s too heavily relying on this one Gift of the Spirit. He makes it seem as if LDS treat prophecy like Pentecostals treat speaking in tongues. In I Corinthians chapter 15, St. Paul stresses that as the body of Christ we all constitute different organs of that body, and so we all receive different gifts in different proportion. Furthermore, if I were him, I’d be very careful with his argument that a supposed decline in prophecy in the Catholic church indicates an apostasy. Anybody know when the last “Thus saith the LORD” kind of prophecy has been uttered by an LDS prophet? Except for the two addenda, when was the last addition to the Doctrine & Covenants?

Yeah I’ve heard this argument before. That’s true, we sustain prophets, seers, and revelators, yet sometimes I wonder if they are really prophesying, seeing, and revelating. Granted, I know that one role of apostles and prophets is to teach, call people to repentance, and to reiterate what has already been revealed by God, but what about the “seeing” and “revelating”? Perhaps this sustaining is viewed as saying that they have the potential to do so, not that they do so.

It is a question I’ve been asked by friends when they ask me about my beliefs as a LDS, and when I say “we believe in prophets in this day”, they ask, “when was the last revelation?”. Then it gets awkward.

Also, if I understand LDS teaching correctly, our manuals tell us that inspired teaching can also be found in General Conference addresses. Does that mean that all addresses given are inspired? If so, that does give some difficulty in some of the older GC talks…

 

[LivingWaters7]

A couple of years ago we had a man in our RCIA program who is/was Jewish. He and his wife had been checking out various denominations in their spiritual journey.

When they came to our parish (and I would say that my pastor celebrates the NO in the manner and spirit that VII envisioned) and experienced Mass, he turned to his wife and said, “Dont care where you go, but this is where I belong. Mass reminds me of what I experience as a Jewish kid growing up and going to service” (I am paraphrasing but that was the thrust of his statement. It reminded him of his worship experience as a Jew)

He and his wife are good friends of mine now and they are still active in our parish

Nice. Yeah, it’s interesting to me that when I read LDS apologists citing Margaret Barker, an Old Testament temple scholar, in support of our temple beliefs and practices (mostly by cherry-picking in her works), she’s actually talking about comparisons between the Jewish temple and Catholic/Orthodox practice throughout time (though Barker did present at a recent academic LDS temple conference)!

 

[LivingWaters7]

Pray for guidance. For myself, at that point in my life, I worried that my prayers were just expressions of what I thought was truth, and not Truth itself. So I kept my prayer very simple, for a long time (over a year at least). “God lead me to you.” You can believe, when I saw myself being led to Christ, in the Catholic Church, I started to ask, “Really, this is where you are leading me?” I would have never imagined, or even sought, to become Catholic. I was only looking to understand Christianity, from its roots. That was it, I had no intention of converting. God had different ideas. There was a point where I had to take a leap of faith, and that my friend, was the most terribly frightening thing I have ever done. I feared I was jumping off a cliff and was going to find myself splattered and broken at the bottom. But that isn’t what happened. God held me, and continues to my great astonishment, to do so.

God bless you.

Rebecca

This is EXACTLY what I’m doing. Just praying to be led to God, to be led to the Truth, wherever it is. And I am most certainly looking to understand Christianity from its roots, though I am looking to be led to that…root (if I am not already at it).

 

[kimg901]

Perhaps us catholics need to do the litany of Mary and the Saints. When I was no longer in the state of grace (because of all the mortal sins I had commited) my family and friends did these prayers for me and God revealed Himself to me and gave me truth

 

[KathleenGee]

What note about private revelation.

Private revelation that can be practiced in a diocese must be approved by the local bishop. The revelation must not deviate from our deposit of faith as well as complying with the decision of the bishop after investigation.

If the alleged seer(s) continue to conflict with bishop, it is sign the private revelation does not come from God.

Private revelation, for it to permitted in the Church, must reflect and support Catholic doctrine, practice, and communion with the Holy Father, bishop, and faith community. Otherwise either the local bishop or appropriate administration at Vatican gives communication stating revelation not worthy of belief.

 

[Regina_Love]

Thanks! And yes, the Truth, the Reality, is really what it comes down to for me, as I don’t want to be wasting my time on something that doesn’t have eternal significance, no matter how great it may be in this life. For me, the most important thing is to know that God exists, and that I can be in His presence for eternity, with my family and loved ones. ** The question then becomes where is that Truth found**, hence my confusion .

I truely enjoyed reading your post. It is easy to see that you are intelligent, and well reasoned. The answer to your question is found in Timothy 3:15 …“you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” The Catholic Church is the foundation, and support of truth. Jesus entrusted to the Church his truths for all man kind. With the teachings of the Old Testament, living the New Testament, and 2000 years of being taught, and led by the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church is wise indeed. John 14:26, John 14:15,

Jesus also taught that He would always be with the Catholic Church. Jesus said, “…teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold I am with you always, until the end of the age.” Mathew 28:18-20

I have been married in the Church for 28 years now! What a blessing it has been. When we married the two became one. That truth, and reality are always a part of us, and does not end, for we know, “the greatest of these is love” Our spouse is literaly part of us, and that love endures into eternity. It is my understanding that our loved ones are there to greet us as we enter Heaven!

I hope these thoughts are helpful to you! May God bless you journey.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This is EXACTLY what I’m doing. Just praying to be led to God, to be led to the Truth, wherever it is. And I am most certainly looking to understand Christianity from its roots, though I am looking to be led to that…root (if I am not already at it).

Yes, I understand.

With Regina Love’s post above, and your reference to the continuity of the Catholic Church, one thing that was incredibly striking for me was the continuity of faith in the Catholic Church. I mean from the OT to NT to today. Where LDS belief is an unending string of discontinuity and restoration, my readings pointed me to a God who was ever continuous and faithful in his Revelation and acting Salvation, culminating and fulfilled Jesus Christ. I think you have seen a glimpse in that in your descriptions of the continuity of our forms of worship.

What this revealed to me, personally, was that my atheism was rooted in an understanding of a false God. One who leaves us on whim, scared by our sins, scratching us out and starting over. This is not the God of Christianity, who forever calls to us, and never ceases showing us His Will to be His. We belong to God, by default. Maybe your experience of Mormonism is different, but I always felt in Mormonism that by default I did not belong to God, but had to work like hell for God to want me. Had to go through those stepping stones of ordinances so God would let me belong. My thought process was, in my 20’s, that if God didn’t want me, he could suck it, I didn’t want him either. I came to see I had a belief in a false god, one that has human attributes, made in the image of man.

 

[KathleenGee]

LW…you speak of the constant of God.

Our priest who was teaching us foundational Catholicism, spoke to us about what is truth. I was thinking of Christ before Pilate, when He was asked Who He was, and He answered, ‘Truth’. The priest shared with us his encounter with a young man who was searching for God and could not find Him in creatures. He finally came to belief in God as the only thing that did not change.

What is even more wonderful about the Christian concept of God is that He is the God of Love. We cannot fully comprehend how much He truly loves each one of us, how much His love is so sacred for us, to the degree that He even shares something of His divine essence with us – sacred love.

He loves us so much to the degree His love is one great, constant tear of love and compassion…you love someone so much, you cry…with Him, being One…His love is one great tear for each of us, unique for every one of us.

It also makes me recall St. Catherine’s Dialogue on ‘Tears’…and the different degrees of tears.

The kingdom of Christ is within each one of us…it is a greater reality than the physical world around us, because it is centered on the life force of Christ, it is eternal time that unites us with all of humanity and creation from its beginning to the present into the future, and through the Mass, into heaven.

We have to detach from the movement of the world, and withdraw into quiet, into self before Christ and seek communion with Him.

It is all about communion with the Lord that is constant, but alive and most fulfilling that no man or one’s self can ever find anything else to compensate.

 

[SpeSalvi]

What this revealed to me, personally, was that my atheism was rooted in an understanding of a false God. One who leaves us on whim, scared by our sins, scratching us out and starting over. This is not the God of Christianity, who forever calls to us, and never ceases showing us His Will to be His. We belong to God, by default. Maybe your experience of Mormonism is different, but I always felt in Mormonism that by default I did not belong to God, but had to work like hell for God to want me. Had to go through those stepping stones of ordinances so God would let me belong. My thought process was, in my 20’s, that if God didn’t want me, he could suck it, I didn’t want him either. I came to see I had a belief in a false god, one that has human attributes, made in the image of man.

This was also a HUGE factor for me, too. If any woman hasn’t read it yet, I would suggest looking at the book “Captivating” by Stacy Eldredge (And for the guys, take a look at Wild At Heart by Jon Eldredge). It’s not a Catholic-specific book, but it revolutionized my view of God and was probably one of the first times I realized that Stacy was NOT talking about the LDS God, and I yearned for the knowledge she had. My heart was restless until I found Him, although it took a long time. Now, my heart rests in Him and I know that my Father in Heaven is so much more phenomenal than I could have even conceived of half a decade ago.

Sorry to get off topic, but Rebecca’s words echoed my own experience so much that I wanted to share.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This was also a HUGE factor for me, too. If any woman hasn’t read it yet, I would suggest looking at the book “Captivating” by Stacy Eldredge (And for the guys, take a look at Wild At Heart by Jon Eldredge). It’s not a Catholic-specific book, but it revolutionized my view of God and was probably one of the first times I realized that Stacy was NOT talking about the LDS God, and I yearned for the knowledge she had. My heart was restless until I found Him, although it took a long time. Now, my heart rests in Him and I know that my Father in Heaven is so much more phenomenal than I could have even conceived of half a decade ago.

Sorry to get off topic, but Rebecca’s words echoed my own experience so much that I wanted to share.

to continue off topic

It was similar for me, though instead of a book, an acquaintance who happened to be Catholic, and was bothered by my atheism, said to me, “God is love.” My reaction was something like, “Where did you get such an idea as that!”. Kathleen describes, in the post above, God of unbounded love that we can’t even comprehend. It bothered me this idea that God loves me, and it wasn’t something I could accept, until another friend who was with me in my conversion said, “God loves you, get over it!”. When I finally got it, that I belong to God soul, heart and body, I knew I had found where I belong. God didn’t waste any time in getting me to Him, I was put on a fast track!

We are going to discuss sin and grace tomorrow with our Elect and Catechumens. As I was preparing, it struck me once again how important the doctrine of original sin is. Without understanding sin, we can’t understand grace. The unconditional love that God has given us. Still, after 5 years, it makes me want to fall on my face and worship him. Catholics have a secret, the Truth named Jesus Christ, that was hidden from me and/or I couldn’t see, for the majority of my life.

LW, seek and ye shall find.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Thanks all for the replies. I think later on I’ll start individual threads on specific topics, instead of the multiple topics being discussed in this one thread (not that it’s a problem, just to be more organized and be able to respond more coherently, ).

So I haven’t discussed my dilemma with any LDS friends yet. I did discuss it with a coworker who is familiar with LDS beliefs and practices (she had a LDS roommate in college and went to church and other activities with her sometimes). After our discussion, she said “Well, Mormonism is tough to swallow, but you already swallowed it!”.

I think that shows how much of a change it would be for me to go from a believing Latter-day Saint, as someone that everyone knows is a Latter-day Saint, to not. I also think, as I’ve mentioned before, that it would be very difficult for me to leave. Not that they would hold me hostage or say “no, you’re not”. Perhaps it’s more of a mental thing for me, but I don’t know if I have it in me to sit down with my bishop and say “I don’t have a testimony anymore, I don’t think the Church is true or what it claims to be, and will no longer be a member”. It would be difficult for me to leave because everyone knows that I was an active Catholic before, and that it was difficult for me to make the decision to become LDS. Sharing your testimony all the time (and really believing it) that you KNOW the Church is true, that Jesus is at its head, Joseph Smith was a true prophet, etc, and then saying “actually, jk jk”, that is difficult to imagine. I guess I’m just thinking about how it looks from the opposite side, especially since many look to me as an example (compounded by the fact that I’m Elders Quorum President too), love my testimony, think I’m strong, etc.

Here are a few areas that I’m thinking about as causing difficulty (and would probably be best for a separate thread each:

The Nature of God

I have no problem believing that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are distinct Persons. They are not each other. I think that both LDS and traditional Christians can agree on that. With the LDS, I have serious issues with the belief that God the Father was once a man that progressed to God. Now, some LDS will state that while they do believe that, they believe that the Father remained Divine during His mortal existence, just like Jesus Christ did. The problem is that various apostles and prophets have stated that the Father progressed to Godhood. I don’t necessarily have a problem with the Father having a body, unless He always was embodied (yet we always talk about the Father being an “exalted man”, having a “resurrected body”, etc.). Also, the belief in an infinite regress of Gods (which logically comes from the belief that the Father may not have always been God) is an issue.

I find that it makes much more sense, and is consistent with the Biblical and historical (Jewish and Christian) records, that God has always been God, did not progress to being God, etc. With this, there is of course a difference between belief on the pre-mortal existence of Jesus Christ. LDS believe that Christ was the Firstborn Son of God (literally), the firstborn of all of the Father’s (and Heavenly Mother’s) spirit children, including us. LDS believe that we are all eternal in the sense that our core, our intelligence, has always existed. However, we were “created” (organized) by the Father, including the Son. So in a sense, there was a time when the Son did not exist as the Son. I have difficulty with that.

Revelation

Revelation from God is an important topic for me, and of course is a point frequently brought up by LDS. I believe that God always speaks to His children, and has never stopped doing so. I think that many LDS confuse the traditional belief that public revelation ended with thinking that traditional Christians believe that God no longer speaks. Obviously that isn’t true. I know that Catholics/Orthodox believe that while public revelation (i.e. revelation from God pertaining to what is necessary to be saved, if I understand it correctly) ended with the apostles, God still does speak to His children, we can receive inspiration and guidance from God, and God leads the Church (whether Catholic or Orthodox, in their belief) through the Holy Ghost. It also seems that Catholics and Orthodox not only accept the belief that there have been prophets after the New Testament throughout time, but there have also been prophetesses as well, which, if I remember correctly, is consistent with the Bible.

Whenever someone asks me what is unique about LDS, I always bring up our belief in prophets, and that prophets and apostles lead our Church. They then ask “what was the latest prophecy?”, which causes some difficulty. I could point to GC addresses as inspired teachings, yet they aren’t really that different than what Catholic/Orthodox leaders say in their inspired messages. We also haven’t update the D&C lately (and the last two updates were on Plural Marriage and the Priesthood restriction), though we talk about continued scriptures.

The Sacrament/Eucharist

There is of course a clear difference in the LDS vs Catholic/Orthodox understandings of Communion. It is much easier to accept the LDS view. However, with the Bible and the earliest post-NT Christian writings, it seems as if the Real Presence viewpoint has always been held. It is curious that all of the most ancient Christian churches, no matter where in the world they are (Greece, Rome, India, Egypt, Ethiopia, Armenia, Jerusalem, Antiochian, etc), accept belief in the Real Presence. That is difficult to dispute.

 

[LivingWaters7]

The Apostasy

And this is what it comes down to. Did a complete Apostasy, not only a loss of the priesthood authority and power, but changes in doctrine, ordinances/sacraments, etc, occur? Still thinking about that topic, though I don’t find certain verses cited by LDS apologists convincing, since many of them don’t refer to a “complete” apostasy, and others don’t refer to the New Testament Church.

The Priesthood Restriction

This is a difficult topic, whether or not you’re African American or a member of the LDS Church. What is difficult is reading statements by various Presidents of the Church, some of which occurred in General Conference (as I side-note, I also find to be odd statements by various leaders on dark skinned peoples turning light/white. It shows the thought process found in the Church at that time). I don’t understand how, in post-Jesus Christ’s Incarnation times, that God would want/allow the priesthood to not be given to a specific portion of His children (and to have inspired prophets and apostles say horrible things about these children of God). It also doesn’t make sense when we believe that priesthood ordination is necessary for exaltation. I also don’t understand why black women were not allowed in the temples during this time period to receive necessary ordinances.

 

[Marie5890]

Perhaps it’s more of a mental thing for me, but I don’t know if I have it in me to sit down with my bishop and say “I don’t have a testimony anymore, I don’t think the Church is true or what it claims to be, and will no longer be a member”. It would be difficult for me to leave because everyone knows that I was an active Catholic before, and that it was difficult for me to make the decision to become LDS. Sharing your testimony all the time (and really believing it) that you KNOW the Church is true, that Jesus is at its head, Joseph Smith was a true prophet, etc, and then saying “actually, jk jk”, that is difficult to imagine. I guess I’m just thinking about how it looks from the opposite side, especially since many look to me as an example (compounded by the fact that I’m Elders Quorum President too), love my testimony, think I’m strong, etc.

.

So, basically, you feel you have to sit down with the bishop and explain it?
Is it your ego? Your pride? Wanting others to think good of you (ie your reputation?) Are you embarassed? Feel shame for being duped?

Like I asked before, how important is spiritual truth and realities to you? More important than your ego? pride? something? etc?

Just something to meditate on

 

[LivingWaters7]

So, basically, you feel you have to sit down with the bishop and explain it?

Shouldn’t I? I mean, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, to be honest, if/when I get to that point. I mean, it’s not like I could just stop coming and expect them to not attempt to contact me, visit, find out what happened, right? Especially being EQP, I couldn’t just quietly fade away like some people do, plus, even if I know longer believed, I wouldn’t want to leave those that do in turmoil, as far as how to go about running the EQ/needing to call someone else, etc.

Is it your ego? Your pride? Wanting others to think good of you (ie your reputation?) Are you embarassed? Feel shame for being duped?

Like I asked before, how important is spiritual truth and realities to you? More important than your ego? pride? something? etc?

Just something to meditate on

I think it’s partially reputation, partially embarrassment/being duped. I wonder what my friends in the Church would think, how they would respond, etc. But yeah, those things shouldn’t be more important than having the Truth. I do have to meditate on that.

 

[havasupai]

Hi Living Waters,

I can totally relate to where you are at. I was in the same place several years ago, except I was raised in the Mormon faith and my family – wife, children, parents – are still LDS. For me also the existence or non-existence of a great apostasy was a core issue. After a lot of study and prayer, I eventually came to the conclusion that a complete apostasy of the early church was not supported by the historical evidence (early church fathers, always good to read the primary sources themselves), not consistent with the record of God’s dealings with his covenant people as recorded in the Old Testament, and not consistent with Jesus being the good shepherd and the church being his body and bride. So I was recently baptized and received in the Catholic Church.

Funny that you bring up the Eucharist and the Real Presence. This for me was also very important. A church that gets the meaning of the central sacrament/ritual of Christianity wrong doesn’t really have a claim to being Christ’s church. A plain reading of the New Testament and the consensus of the early church fathers clearly points to a Catholic/Orthodox understanding of the Eucharist. A book you might find interesting on this subject is Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist: Unlocking the Secrets of the Last Supper by Brant Pitre. Highly recommended.

The best arguments for the existence of God and against materialism/atheism are made based on a traditional understanding of the nature of God – uncaused, eternal, infinite, the source of all other being. For example, see David Bentley Hart’s article Believe It or Not in the journal First Things: firstthings.com/article/2010/04/believe-it-or-not. Anything by Hart is worth reading in my opinion (he is Eastern Orthodox).

God be with you on your journey!

 

[havasupai]

Shouldn’t I? I mean, I don’t know what I’m supposed to do, to be honest, if/when I get to that point. I mean, it’s not like I could just stop coming and expect them to not attempt to contact me, visit, find out what happened, right? Especially being EQP, I couldn’t just quietly fade away like some people do, plus, even if I know longer believed, I wouldn’t want to leave those that do in turmoil, as far as how to go about running the EQ/needing to call someone else, etc.

Going public can be really difficult. I was employed by the LDS church when I told my bishop that I no longer believed. Nothing like having your paycheck depend on holding a current temple recommend to make the interview exciting!

 

[Tweedle_Dee]

LW, I’ve been questioning my LDS faith for a very long time now. For more perspectives on the LDS faith you might check out the new order mormon website if you haven’t already. I have found it a great place to learn and discuss all things Mormon and not be judged.