Considering separation for a while

[teresadeavila]

We’ve been in marital counseling, attended Retrouvaille, tried journaling, but after 11 plus years, it seems yet the old habits come back. My hubby is still dependent on spending money on things (cars, electronics, etc) to make himself happy (a source of argument in our home), spends most of his time on his iphone and labtop instead of spending a few minutes time with me or his children, doesn’t communicate, keeps his feelings to himself, and does not spend much time on his appearance with me. He’s not overweight but has no muscle, and sadly, I’ve lost my attraction to him entirely - although just to attempt keeping our marriage together, I’ve initiated sex - I get a lukewarm response.

I seriously do not want to be divorced but at what point does it seem hopeless?? How much counseling does it take? We’ve done almost 6 months of counseling, and while he has worked on his anger/rage issues, he’s emotionally unavailable. He has lost faith in the church years ago, he attends Mass, but only out of obligation - he doesn’t want to join me when I go to confession, has little if no interest in sex and is not interested in things I’m interested (books, spiritual discussions) except movies. I’ve worked really hard to stay attractive, exercising (I wear size 4), doing my hair, makeup, nails - all to no avail. When I try to talk to him nicely about it, he shrugs his shoulders and says, “I don’t know what’s wrong.” He just won’t open up. I’ve asked him why he feels the need to buy expensive items, he says nothing. I don’t nag him, don’t criticize him unless it has to do with our children (when he starts getting incredibly angry over something minor, like a sock on the floor) - not sure what to do at this point.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Frankly, he sounds depressed. Has he been for a thorough physical exam?

 

[teresadeavila]

No, he does not think he’s depressed at all. I’ve mentioned this once or twice, but it makes him clam up even more. His mother was diagnosed once with depression, not clinical, but more situational - a long time ago.

 

[mamaslo]

it could be other things though…what about boundaries?

I agree with TRJ…he does sound depressed or some other physical problem, could even be sleep apnea and that can cause a lot of issues too.

Probably should at least go get a physical and some bloodwork…but he definitely doesn’t feel well by the way he is acting.

See if he is willing to go get a physical…go with him. so you can make sure the doctor knows what you see.

peace.

 

[Mcubed]

I know you mentioned you have attended counseling, but have you seen a catholic therapist? I have, and what a difference! You can find one at catholictherapist.com. Although I went for other issues, the therapist I went to specialized in treating couples. It’s worth it! God Bless

 

[teresadeavila]

Mcubed, Thanks! There’s a difference between Catholic therapist and counselor? The counselor was through our Diocese Ct for Family Life specifically for marriage problems - I’ve asked, and this is all they have available. I can check out that website you mentioned.

He was recently diagnosed with some rare iron deficiency that makes him very grumpy and gives him headaches. Of course, he does nothing about his diet and exercise to help alleviate the problems but that’s probably most people when they’re diagnosed with something. He may be open to more counseling but it usually gets better for 2-3 months, then old habits kick in. Like now. Just wonder if there will ever be any improvement - longterm.

 

[The_Bucket]

Constantly spending money on material things, always on the computer, seemingly depressed but won’t talk about it, not interested in sex and gets angry at the littlest things.

May I suggest that he potentially has an addiction problem and that it’s related to the electronics? I don’t know this at all to be true but it sounds like a possibility unless you’ve eliminated it.

He’s trying to fill a void that’s only going to be filled by God but if he has an embarrassing addiction he probably has too much shame to turn to Him.

 

[teresadeavila]

Constantly spending money on material things, always on the computer, seemingly depressed but won’t talk about it, not interested in sex and gets angry at the littlest things.

May I suggest that he potentially has an addiction problem and that it’s related to the electronics? I don’t know this at all to be true but it sounds like a possibility unless you’ve eliminated it.

He’s trying to fill a void that’s only going to be filled by God but if he has an embarrassing addiction he probably has too much shame to turn to Him.

Perhaps, I’ve wondered that myself. He has battled internet porn before and I checked the computers - no activity. I’ve seen him, he constantly is shopping on ebay, amazon, checking sports scores, facebook, etc. It is filling a void - only God can fill that void, agreed, I’ve learned that the hard way.

 

[The_Bucket]

Perhaps, I’ve wondered that myself. He has battled internet porn before and I checked the computers - no activity. I’ve seen him, he constantly is shopping on ebay, amazon, checking sports scores, facebook, etc. It is filling a void - only God can fill that void, agreed, I’ve learned that the hard way.

Did you check it with a program that can pull up deleted files? Something like Recuva?

I’m not trying to be accusatory or anything but it sounds pretty classic, especially since he has fought against it in the past. That’s not something he’d want to bring up to you obviously; embarrassing to lose that battle.

Even if that’s not the case well then I’d suggest bringing up something like locking up the computer for awhile anyway so he has to do something else. Try it in a positive manner though. Suggest outdoor activities or a family trip or something. And be firm about it.

We men need to know what we stand to truly lose if we don’t change our lives to be more oriented towards our families and God.

 

[teresadeavila]

Bucket, I have not used any recovery software or anything like that. Not sure I want to but now that you mention it…I’ve suggested family walks, playtime outside, etc and sometimes, he agrees, but then he always returns to the computer before bed. I’m right there in the bed, too, so I know at least for that timebeing, it’s nothing bad.

Our marriage counselor keeps reminding him to put the computer down to spend quality time with me and the kids - I can only hope behavior changes.

 

[Corki]

I hope I don’t sound unsympathetic but I have to ask: What is it you hope to accomplish with a separation? If the goal if for your husband to spend more time with you and your children, won’t this have the opposite effect?

I don’t know how old your children are or if you are planning to take them with you when you go, but a separation is bound to be stressful on them too.

 

[Peanut7949]

although you are married you are still two individuals… let him grow in his own timing… try not to tell others what to do, you can ask, and you need patience with asking!

what you may need is your own alone time and to some how not mind his funny habits… i’m not married and am young so don’t take my advice heavily, but i have a brother and God is showing me to love him no matter what and to keep feeding him as good as i feed (well for him better because he needs the extravagance like your husband needing the cars) myself. i used to need the extravagence too with food but i am much further in this subject than him… so i have to keep remembering i was there once too. (btw my brother is on the computer all the time as well… im clueless as to what… hopefully doing what my good role models do and researching to be up to date with the times and have the best gist of the truth… i shouldn’t get hopes up though! he hasn’t learned to filter as well as i do with his shows… he is half way there tho, he is changing, not at the pace i want him to, but he is!!)

i’m sure husband and wife works a little easier in some ways, my brother wouldn’t ever take a walk with me, but maybe you can with your husband.

otherwise, i want to say that a good role model friend and his wife barely see each other, because he runs a business and must be there all day for it to work. well they do wonderfully… they had a bit of a riff as well and separated for a while. they are now happily back together. maybe just sleep in diff rooms. how did you start your marriage? has it been traditionally catholic the whole time?

 

[Peanut7949]

Our marriage counselor keeps reminding him to put the computer down to spend quality time with me and the kids - I can only hope behavior changes.

This is good… with gentle assurance you might see the slightest changes… he is at least forming an importance around the time that is not spent on computer, whether 5 minutes or more. So remember he is alert and ready to get this part of the goal into place… offer to sit down and eat a meal together. this really helps with my brother and I. It is one of the BEST bonders, though I am eating too much!! lol I gotta just WAIT to eat when he finally wakes up! a valid sacrifice

btw i love Theresa of Avila… She is possibly my most guardian of saints. Have you seen the film on youtube? It’s not fully up in english but good nonetheless

 

[Peanut7949]

really I would rather you change the title to the above

Consider the better options… its a form of prayer! What’s the truer option— wellllll Its hard to just work on myself but I will.

 

[Saturn5]

I hope I don’t sound unsympathetic but I have to ask: What is it you hope to accomplish with a separation? If the goal if for your husband to spend more time with you and your children, won’t this have the opposite effect?

I don’t know how old your children are or if you are planning to take them with you when you go, but a separation is bound to be stressful on them too.

I have to agree with Corki on this, what is your goal in separating? If it is only to get away, then you have ask what is what is behind that desire?

I can tell you my own journey with my faith and marriage. My wife told me she was no longer “in” love with me several years ago. That was a wake up call for me. I had to take a hard look at myself and see how I could become a better husband and father. I also had to put Christ first in my life. It was difficult at first, but it has paid huge dividends.

My wife still continues to struggle in our marriage, however I no longer do. I love her as Christ loves us, unconditionally. I know that Christ will help my wife and our marriage and that faith and love of Him and her keeps me here and devoted. I could have separated when my wife told me she was no longer in love with me (she does say she loves me, just not “in” love) but it would have destroyed our marriage, our children and any chance of successfully reigniting that spark between us.

I can also tell you my wife has some deeper issues with committment as she grew up watching her father verbally abuse her mother. She was also physically attacked by 2 boys in 9th grade (she fought them off). I did not know that until year 9 of our marriage during a counselling session (3 years ago). All I’m saying is it can take a long time for things to come out. All I can do in the meantime is love my wife, support her and tell her I am not going anywhere, that I will not abandon her. Eventually she will recognize that start to trust to a level that we need to grow our marriage. You cannot accomplish that separating.

 

[The_Bucket]

Bucket, I have not used any recovery software or anything like that. Not sure I want to but now that you mention it…I’ve suggested family walks, playtime outside, etc and sometimes, he agrees, but then he always returns to the computer before bed. I’m right there in the bed, too, so I know at least for that timebeing, it’s nothing bad.

Our marriage counselor keeps reminding him to put the computer down to spend quality time with me and the kids - I can only hope behavior changes.

I’m not saying you need to dig through every aspect of his life I’m simply saying that it’s quite easy to leave no trace that is in any way easily detectable. It’s as easy as using an “Incognito” window with Google Chrome. Built right in there to leave no trace unless you use a recovery program.

And this is not about bashing him over the head with his sin if it is there. It’s about exposing something that needs exposing for you and for him!

If it’s not that, then at least there is some kind of addiction or dependence on the computer and electronics. He could be using it for escapism in things other than gravely immoral behavior. That would obviously be better for his soul and your relationship, but it’s still really bad.

Personally I’d find a way to have a “computer free week” or something like that. Fill the days with fun activities with the kids, time for you two as a couple and time for prayer. Set a defined period and challenge him to do it. Maybe he’ll embrace it and maybe not.

There’s a difference between getting wrapped up in some Fantasy Football or a video game or something and being dependent on it. A guy wrapped up in a game or something will stop if his wife is mad. And he certainly isn’t going to pass up physical intimacy in favor of a video game, no matter how interesting it is! Maybe if he’s watching the Super Bowl or something. What you’re talking about is dependence on the electronic mediums to fill his life. It can’t and won’t. It will just make him more miserable.

So if there’s nothing nefarious like porn going on, try a gentle but firm approach. And be consistent about it. If there is something darker, he needs drastic intervention. He’ll be much, much happier if he can actually start to engage in spiritual combat and has the tools and the reinforcements (you and others) to help him. Good luck and God bless.

PS - If it sounds like I have personal experience in this, sadly I do. I’m the guy who was wrapped up in his computer and yelled about random and inconsequential things and was constantly anxious. It was indeed due to that darker issue and one I had deep shame about. I hated myself and while I never blamed anyone but myself for my problems, my anger about being a “failure” as a Catholic husband and father seeped out into everyone I came in contact with.

Though I went through a short but extremely horrible period with my family once everything came to a head, things have since drastically improved and I personally have never been happier or more at peace with my wife, kids and God.

 

[BettyBoop416]

I hope I don’t sound unsympathetic but I have to ask: What is it you hope to accomplish with a separation?

If I was in the OP’s situation, I would be viewing the separation as a wake-up call for Hubby. Since he has been so withdrawn and unresponsive to anything else, a separation might get his attention. That said…I would be VERY careful and use a separation only as a last resort. I know a few folks who had a “trial separation.” Not a single one of them got back together with their spouse. Every one of them got divorced in the end. I hope the OP’s hubby pulls his head out of that dark place before it’s too late.

 

[tbcrawford]

I am so sorry to hear you are having problems in your marriage. Separation is such a big thing very painful with massive repurcussions.Marriage is a great commitment.

We so often find it so easy to see the faults in others but not so much our own.

Please forgive me as I do not wish to sound judgemental or critical at all its just I picked up on a couple of things you mentioned. You mentioned " He’s not overweight but has no muscle, and sadly, I’ve lost my attraction to him entirely - although just to attempt keeping our marriage together, I’ve initiated sex - I get a lukewarm response.]" Attraction is initially important in a relationship but marriage is far deeper than attraction it is the bringing together of two people to become one.Deeper love and marriage is more than mere attraction.

“*”

It is wonderful that you have worked so hard to remain attractive it truly is and I don’t want to sound rude at all (perhaps its just the way I am reading it ) but it comes across as a little shallow and I wonder if maybe he feels insecure.

He just won’t open up. I’ve asked him why he feels the need to buy expensive items, he says nothing. I don’t nag him, don’t criticize him unless it has to do with our children (when he starts getting incredibly angry over something minor, like a sock on the floor) - not sure what to do at this point.

What if either of you were unable to have sexual relations any longer? As married couples get older and illnesses set in we are tested in our love and commitment to our marriages.Some people are no longer able to have relations and have a deeper love for one another.

None of us know what really happens in your marriage nor is it our business to know.I am sorry for both of you and your children.I hope and pray you can reconcile your marriage and family.It is so painful for everyone involved when relationships break down.I shall keep you and your husband and family in my prayers.
My eldest son today just informed me his other half has left him with their 3yr old son and that she has not loved him for the past two years.They are both devastated.I pray they can recognise both their faults and overcome them and reconcile.

May God bless you and guide you both to open your hearts to one another.*

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Don’t make threats you don’t intend to carry out.

Think seriously about what you hope to achieve with this separation. If your husband already spends too much time on the internet, with you and the kids gone, ALL of his free time can be spent on the internet. Maybe he’d hit his bottom, maybe not. Maybe he’d decide that it’s a lot easier to be alone and he would initiate a divorce. It happens.

People who have addictive personalities can easily get addicted to the internet. I consider myself addicted. I have neglected my family in favor of on-line relationships. I have chronic depression and this filled a huge void in my marriage at a time when I had lost hope. I’m not happy about it. But it’s up to me to fix it.

Your husband needs to admit that he has a problem. Like pouring out the booze for an alcoholic, cutting off his internet access is not going to solve the problem, and will only reduce your relationship to that of parent and child. I would never advise any spouse to intervene in that way. It distorts the relationship immediately. Whatever happens, DO NOT become his parent.

 

[teresadeavila]

I have not made threats - I am simply considering what options I have left after more than 2 years of dealing with the same issues over and over again. I am beginning to harbor resentment towards him and am just plain exhausted, frustrated, and over this. When I try to talk to him gently about it, he gets very defensive or rolls his eyes and makes faces like a child.

I was hoping the separation would allow me some space, room to breath, as I feel really suffocated. I need time to think seriously about our marriage, our kids, our friends & family and if our marriage can be saved. I feel like this is my last resort; I also hope that it would be his wake up call although I see him clamming up even more if we do separate. It also doesn’t help that his parents live with us (very common in our culture), and we have no privacy except in the bedroom - and the electronics is my competition there.

tbcrawford, I understand marriage is so much more than attraction, but the problem I mentioned is just 1 of many, and 1 problem that really upsets me b/c my libido is much stronger than his. Is that even normal???

Bucket, great suggestions and thanks for sharing, happy you were able to get through your issues for your sake and your family’s- I really like the computer free week although that would be hard giving our work and 12-15 hour days. But our marriage is more important than our work - just have to convince him of that fact!