Conspiracy Theories

[RUINATION_IPA]

A few thoughts and then feel free to comment.

I’ve never had the discussion with anyone other than my immediate family, however, I would imagine if you bring up the subject of masons or communists infiltrating the Church to your average NO church-goer you would be met with either crossed-eyes, laughter, or ridicule or all of the above. But when you objectively stand back and look at the history of the last 100 - 200 years of the Church and then check your balances in 1917 with the apparitions of Fatima and continue down the line through V2 to the present you can’t help but notice that something went wrong well before V2.

You’ve got former communist Bella Dodd who testified before the U.S. Supreme Court as to her communist activies including which were the introduction of 1,100 communist inserts into Catholic seminaries with the intention of them attaining to positions of influence within the Catholic Church.

You’ve got the Mother of God warning about Russia spreading her errors throughout the world followed by an unbelievable Vatican-Moscow agreement during V2.

You’ve got rampant liberalism, ambiguity, and what appears to be a deliberate undermining of traditional Catholic doctrine in the V2 documents themselves then you get the accusation of Archbishop Annibale Bugnini being a freemason - which after the Pope received irrefutable evidence essentially exiled Archbshp Bugnini to Iran.

You’ve got a ‘Novus Ordo’ Mass which directly opposes V2 Document, Sacrosanctum Concilium, you get the Ottaviani Intervention, Pope Pius VI signing on to a heretical definition of the Mass then later weeping when he realized he signed something w/o reading it then rectified the situation… nevertheless we still get the N.O. Mass…

We’ve got Our Lady of Akita warning us of not only annihilation but also of a situation which you’ll find Cardinals vs. Cardinal, Bishops vs. Bishops, Priest vs. Priests etc… which we clearly see today…

…and on and on and on… and we haven’t even mentioned the well documented Fatima coverups and bureacracy within the Church.

Question is: Do you ever get blank stares? And do you ever feel like you’re Mel Gibson in ‘Conspiracy Theory’?

 

[Unitas]

Brace yourself. Seriously.

 

[thistle]

A few thoughts and then feel free to comment.

I’ve never had the discussion with anyone other than my immediate family, however, I would imagine if you bring up the subject of masons or communists infiltrating the Church to your average NO church-goer you would be met with either crossed-eyes, laughter, or ridicule or all of the above. But when you objectively stand back and look at the history of the last 100 - 200 years of the Church and then check your balances in 1917 with the apparitions of Fatima and continue down the line through V2 to the present you can’t help but notice that something went wrong well before V2.

You’ve got former communist Bella Dodd who testified before the U.S. Supreme Court as to her communist activies including which were the introduction of 1,100 communist inserts into Catholic seminaries with the intention of them attaining to positions of influence within the Catholic Church.

You’ve got the Mother of God warning about Russia spreading her errors throughout the world followed by an unbelievable Vatican-Moscow agreement during V2.

You’ve got rampant liberalism, ambiguity, and what appears to be a deliberate undermining of traditional Catholic doctrine in the V2 documents themselves then you get the accusation of Archbishop Annibale Bugnini being a freemason - which after the Pope received irrefutable evidence essentially exiled Archbshp Bugnini to Iran.

You’ve got a ‘Novus Ordo’ Mass which directly opposes V2 Document, Sacrosanctum Concilium, you get the Ottaviani Intervention, Pope Pius VI signing on to a heretical definition of the Mass then later weeping when he realized he signed something w/o reading it then rectified the situation… nevertheless we still get the N.O. Mass…

We’ve got Our Lady of Akita warning us of not only annihilation but also of a situation which you’ll find Cardinals vs. Cardinal, Bishops vs. Bishops, Priest vs. Priests etc… which we clearly see today…

…and on and on and on… and we haven’t even mentioned the well documented Fatima coverups and bureacracy within the Church.

Question is: Do you ever get blank stares? And do you ever feel like you’re Mel Gibson in ‘Conspiracy Theory’?

Is this a joke? There are no conspiracies in the Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

no I don’t because I place my faith in Jesus Christ who promised to send the Holy Spirit to protect and guide Holy Mother Church and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her. I don’t place my faith in hysterical conspiracy theorists whether they propagate their satan-inspired mischief on or off the web

 

[T700]

no I don’t because I place my faith in Jesus Christ who promised to send the Holy Spirit to protect and guide Holy Mother Church and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her. I don’t place my faith in hysterical conspiracy theorists whether they propagate their satan-inspired mischief on or off the web

If I knew how to put a clapping hands emoticon in here, I would! Excellent answer to which I fully agree.

Paul

 

[una_fides]

I’m always skeptical whenever I hear someone claiming something to be a conspiracy because it both assumes bad will on the part of a very many people and the scale of a conspiracy theory to be so widespread is extremely improbable and highly unlikely. When dealing with so many people especially people who are religious to one degree or another eventually you would have to conclude that an honest person would have heard concerning the conspiracy and would have leaked the information. Such is inevitable when a conspiracy would become so widespread as people allege.

That said, I do believe that there were smaller-scale conspiracies such as those that you mentioned concerning the infiltration of Communists and Freemasons into the Church’s hierarchy with the intention of destroying the Church. Though I do not personally believe it to be possible that the Church as a whole will be overcome completely with heresy, the Church is undeniably at a time of moral and doctrinal crisis, and confusion and error are being spread on such a large scale and coming from the bishops themselves. There was a time in Church history during the Arian heresy when most of the bishops were heretics and denied the Trinity. What we are facing now however is Satan’s final assault on the truth and it is being done in a much more subtle way so as to undermine the faith without appearing to do so and so that if possible even the elect could be deceived. Such is the nature of modernism, concerning which previous popes have sternly warned, and all bishops, priests, and teachers of Catholicism were at one time required to take the oath against modernism: papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10moath.htm
It is our duty as faithful Catholics to point out the errors and ambiguities that are so rampant today and to oppose these teachings wherever they become manifest, even if the pope himself does so.

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle” (2 Thes 2:14).

 

[adstrinity]

That said, I do believe that there were smaller-scale conspiracies such as those that you mentioned concerning the infiltration of Communists and Freemasons into the Church’s hierarchy with the intention of destroying the Church. Though I do not personally believe it to be possible that the Church as a whole will be overcome completely with heresy, the Church is undeniably at a time of moral and doctrinal crisis, and confusion and error are being spread on such a large scale and coming from the bishops themselves. There was a time in Church history during the Arian heresy when most of the bishops were heretics and denied the Trinity. What we are facing now however is Satan’s . . . assault on the truth and it is being done in a much more subtle way so as to undermine the faith without appearing to do so and so that if possible even the elect could be deceived. Such is the nature of modernism, concerning which previous popes have sternly warned, and all bishops, priests, and teachers of Catholicism were at one time required to take the oath against modernism: papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10moath.htm
It is our duty as faithful Catholics to point out the errors and ambiguities that are so rampant today and to oppose these teachings wherever they become manifest, even if the pope himself does so.

“Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle” (2 Thes 2:14).

This!!!

If I didn’t find the clapping hands emoticon offensively annoying, I’d put it here! Excellent answer to which I fully agree.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i haven’t been a roman catholic long enough to comment on whether your theories are correct concerning the RCC.

however, i think there has to be some kind of conspiracy as to what we are witnessing before our eyes with the world economy.
our nation’s economy and how gas could be over $4 a gallon a few months ago with threats it was going to reach $5/gallon and now they are predicting next year we will be paying close to $1/gallon. why all the bailouts all of a sudden from banks to automobile coorporations?

it seems like a certain group of people are pulling the strings somewhere and the rest of us have to fall into line and pay the huge prices the auto makers charge for their cars, the spike in gas prices, we faithfully make mortgage payments for 20 years only to see our real estate equity cut in half.

sorry if i rambled, but i am sick with a cold right now. not feeling well.

i wish someone could get to the bottom of this and see who is benefitting from this mess.

 

[Archangelum]

Well any conspiracy sounds far-fetched, yet who would want to say that no conspiracies ever took place? And think for a second about the massive hatred there is against the H. Catholic Church. Would those in powerful positions who hate the Church of God not do anything to cripple it? The freemasonry made it it’s open and clear goal about it too work against the church, there’s little “conspiracy” going on there, it was a very open agenda. Just look at who was in power in Portugal during the Fatima appirations. The same more or less happened in France (banning of SJ out of the country) and Belgium (breaking off relations with the Vatican) around 1900. Later we even got a more vicious evil: communism.

 

[latinmasslover]

RUINATION_IPA,

bringing this up was a big mistake. Most Catholics here interpret “the gates of Hell shall not prevail” to mean that every idea out of Rome is the work of God and that “the Paraclete…the spirit of truth…shall abide with you” means that every word from the mouth of the Pope is Gospel. It’s classic Protestantism, picking and choosing. Many forget that Christ also said:

“…you shall be scattered…and shall leave Me alone”
mentality of certain popes contradicting over 1900 years
teaching

…that if any man should confess Him to be Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue…
pretty obvious here I think…the same thing happened to
Catholics in the early Church who refused the Arian heresy

“Amen I say to thee, that in this night before the cock crow, thou wilt deny me thrice.”
Why do some insist that this could never happen again?

“Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: but I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.”
In other words, "Simon, you’re going to goof, but when you
realize the error of your way, be strong for the others.

And Sastan entered into Judas…one of the twelve…
one handpicked by Christ Himself

“For there will rise up false Christs and false prophets, and they shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce (if it were possible) even the elect.”
Well, past popes have been seduced by women (and vice versa)
so this can’t be that much of a stretch.

He warns of a great apostacy, but of course these words are null, like most everything else He taught.

So, of the 12 handpicked:

one betrays the Lord with a kiss
the rock denies the Lord three times, even with forewarning
none stayed awake during His agony
all abandoned Him in the garden

also:
Christ did not reveal to Peter who the betrayer was, but to John.
Peter was not there in the end for Christ in His suffering, but not so with John.
Christ entrusted His Mother to John, not to Peter.
It was John who believed first when he and Peter discovered the empty sepulchre.

Of course, none of this could ever happen again

RUINATION_IPA, I totally feel for you, but this is really the wrong site to express the obvious. Pope personality is a little more important to most (not all) here. Try fisheaters.com for facts.

 

[PaulAndrew83]

I know a lot about global history in particular modern world history from the time of napolean.

If I was a communist I would have most certainly infiltrated the church with as many men as possible.

Despite Our Lords promise that Our Lord would not allow the church to perish, this does not mean that nobody would ever attempt to destroy the church!

Paul

 

[una_fides]

If I was a communist I would have most certainly infiltrated the church with as many men as possible.
Despite Our Lords promise that Our Lord would not allow the church to perish, this does not mean that nobody would ever attempt to destroy the church!

Very true. I think that people take the statement that “the gates of hell will not prevail against the Church” to mean that they will not at all prevail in any sense. A brief study of history will show this to not be correct as is exemplified in the Arian crisis and even the protestant rebellion. It must be understood that the gates will not completely prevail as to eliminate the Church from existence entirely from the earth. Let us keep in mind the words of faithful St. Athanasius who was one of the few who opposed the Arian majority at his time:

"Even if Catholics faithful to Tradition are reduced to a handful, they are the ones who are the true Church of Jesus Christ"

 

[Califman831]

The heretics have breeched the walls of the church and have indoctornated our once faithful men and women. We must pray and stand tall agaist them, even to the point our deaths.

 

[una_fides]

The heretics have breeched the walls of the church and have indoctornated our once faithful men and women. We must pray and stand tall agaist them, even to the point our deaths.

Amen. You are overflowing with the zeal and conviction of the saints.

 

[bpbasilphx]

The problem with any conspiracy theory is that any cogent reasoned argument against it become proof that there is in fact a conspiracy!

 

[jfallaw]

A few thoughts and then feel free to comment.

I’ve never had the discussion with anyone other than my immediate family, however, I would imagine if you bring up the subject of masons or communists infiltrating the Church to your average NO church-goer you would be met with either crossed-eyes, laughter, or ridicule or all of the above. But when you objectively stand back and look at the history of the last 100 - 200 years of the Church and then check your balances in 1917 with the apparitions of Fatima and continue down the line through V2 to the present you can’t help but notice that something went wrong well before V2.

You’ve got former communist Bella Dodd who testified before the U.S. Supreme Court as to her communist activies including which were the introduction of 1,100 communist inserts into Catholic seminaries with the intention of them attaining to positions of influence within the Catholic Church.

You’ve got the Mother of God warning about Russia spreading her errors throughout the world followed by an unbelievable Vatican-Moscow agreement during V2.

You’ve got rampant liberalism, ambiguity, and what appears to be a deliberate undermining of traditional Catholic doctrine in the V2 documents themselves then you get the accusation of Archbishop Annibale Bugnini being a freemason - which after the Pope received irrefutable evidence essentially exiled Archbshp Bugnini to Iran.

You’ve got a ‘Novus Ordo’ Mass which directly opposes V2 Document, Sacrosanctum Concilium, you get the Ottaviani Intervention, Pope Pius VI signing on to a heretical definition of the Mass then later weeping when he realized he signed something w/o reading it then rectified the situation… nevertheless we still get the N.O. Mass…

We’ve got Our Lady of Akita warning us of not only annihilation but also of a situation which you’ll find Cardinals vs. Cardinal, Bishops vs. Bishops, Priest vs. Priests etc… which we clearly see today…

…and on and on and on… and we haven’t even mentioned the well documented Fatima coverups and bureacracy within the Church.

Question is: Do you ever get blank stares? And do you ever feel like you’re Mel Gibson in ‘Conspiracy Theory’?

I read all that on a sedevacantist website. My reply is, “so what?” Even if evil people try to somehow ruin the Church, they will never do so, because Christ promised us that His Church would stand until the end of time. While it may be true that there are evil people within the Church who might be actively trying to destroy her, they will simply never succeed.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Question is: Do you ever get blank stares? And do you ever feel like you’re Mel Gibson in ‘Conspiracy Theory’?

In the sense that I’d do anything for some time with Julia Roberts, yes.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

A few thoughts and then feel free to comment.

I’ve never had the discussion with anyone other than my immediate family, however, I would imagine if you bring up the subject of masons or communists infiltrating the Church to your average NO church-goer you would be met with either crossed-eyes, laughter, or ridicule or all of the above. But when you objectively stand back and look at the history of the last 100 - 200 years of the Church and then check your balances in 1917 with the apparitions of Fatima and continue down the line through V2 to the present you can’t help but notice that something went wrong well before V2.

You’ve got former communist Bella Dodd who testified before the U.S. Supreme Court as to her communist activies including which were the introduction of 1,100 communist inserts into Catholic seminaries with the intention of them attaining to positions of influence within the Catholic Church.

You’ve got the Mother of God warning about Russia spreading her errors throughout the world followed by an unbelievable Vatican-Moscow agreement during V2.

You’ve got rampant liberalism, ambiguity, and what appears to be a deliberate undermining of traditional Catholic doctrine in the V2 documents themselves then you get the accusation of Archbishop Annibale Bugnini being a freemason - which after the Pope received irrefutable evidence essentially exiled Archbshp Bugnini to Iran.

You’ve got a ‘Novus Ordo’ Mass which directly opposes V2 Document, Sacrosanctum Concilium, you get the Ottaviani Intervention, Pope Pius VI signing on to a heretical definition of the Mass then later weeping when he realized he signed something w/o reading it then rectified the situation… nevertheless we still get the N.O. Mass…

We’ve got Our Lady of Akita warning us of not only annihilation but also of a situation which you’ll find Cardinals vs. Cardinal, Bishops vs. Bishops, Priest vs. Priests etc… which we clearly see today…

…and on and on and on… and we haven’t even mentioned the well documented Fatima coverups and bureacracy within the Church.

Question is: Do you ever get blank stares? And do you ever feel like you’re Mel Gibson in ‘Conspiracy Theory’?

My last post was just a 'lil funny and my beautiful wife is here next to me chuckling about it.

There is some truth in what you speak of, to be sure. Some of the ‘infiltration’, for example, is documented. And the Church has been in a horrid state since the 60s in many ways (and looking up now in some ways, I add).

I think you go ‘too far’ in your ‘criticisms’ of the Council. As a valid Council of the Catholic Church, it had to be and was protected by the Holy Spirit from officially teaching error in faith or morals. (That doesn’t mean it couldn’t produce some documents of confusing ambiguity, as it did. It also doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a modernist contingent there exerting a lot of influence, as there certainly was!)

Likewise, the Novus Ordo remains a valid Mass. The Holy Spirit could not allow the ordinary form of the Mass to be flat-out invalid!

I believe that while the anti-Catholic forces in the Church and without obviously made some great gains, and created the ‘diabolical disorientation’ in the Church that Sr. Lucy of Fatima spoke of, they did not succeed in breaking Her as they would have liked.

They never will.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

no I don’t because I place my faith in Jesus Christ who promised to send the Holy Spirit to protect and guide Holy Mother Church and that the gates of hell shall not prevail against her. I don’t place my faith in hysterical conspiracy theorists whether they propagate their satan-inspired mischief on or off the web

I think than many people ‘project’ themselves against even the consideration that ‘all is not as it seems on the surface’ because things get scary otherwise.

The calculated infiltration by both masons and communists is documented and is/was taken very seriously indeed by churchmen high in the hierarchy.

Our Lady of Akita, a FULLY CHURCH-APPROVED apparition of the Blessed Virgin, did say that “the devil will infiltrate the Church… cardinals will oppose cardinals and bishops will oppose bishops.”.

What does one make of that?

Now, one can drive oneself batty thinking/worry about such things. It is potentially a distraction from what really matters - the spiritual life.

So, someone who says ‘I am not going to worry about such things; I am going to serve Christ every day as best I can’ I think is behaving wisely.

 

[una_fides]

I think you go ‘too far’ in your ‘criticisms’ of the Council. As a valid Council of the Catholic Church, it had to be and was protected by the Holy Spirit from officially teaching error in faith or morals. (That doesn’t mean it couldn’t produce some documents of confusing ambiguity, as it did. It also doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a modernist contingent there exerting a lot of influence, as there certainly was!)

The question is not whether V2 was a valid council. The question is whether it was or was not infallible. If it was non-infallible, then its contents would not be guaranteed by the Holy Spirit against the possibility of error. I just started a thread on this topic: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4515549#post4515549
Check it out. Let me know your thoughts.