"Constantine" the movie

[Tyler_Smedley]

Its a decent movie and it was nice to know that the heresy alarms that I installed in my brian work, because they were going off alot. I would suggest that if you liked the trailer you would like the movie and to go see it, if you didn’t dont.

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

I want to offer a different opinion, because I think it’s good for people to hear why some people dislike the movie.
I haven’t seen the movie, but someone I know who saw it left after 10 minutes because she was so disgusted by it. A priest I know was giving a talk about spiritual warfare, and when he was asked about the movie, he said that the movie was blaspheming God to His face. I’ve never seen him so angry about a movie before. Also, although some people might see the idea that all who commit suicide go to Hell as a minor problem, for everyone who, like me, has lost a friend this way, a movie portraying the Church as too insensitive to even give a funeral to one who commits suicide is horrible. Like I said, I haven’t seen it, but I trust the people I know who have seen it, because they tend to be reasonable about movies.

 

[jdnation]

Just saw it tonight, great movie! Although Constantine has problems with God and there’s the whole issue of suicide etc it is resolved rather nicely at the end. Love the way the devil is portrayed in this one.

This is one of the better movies out there, I didn’t really see anything blasphemous about it, other than the exorcism scenes do tend to be very witchcraft like… but that’s a minor complaint.

Did you guys stay after the credits to see the lil epilogue?

Anyway want to check out the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ movie on the Crusades, that trailer looked awesome!

 

[Sanveann]

My DH and I saw it last weekend. I agree that the Catholic theology was a bit off (particularly the part about ALL suicides going to hell), but I left feeling that if this movie doesn’t get people in church to learn how to avoid hell, I don’t know what will!

 

[Lurch104]

Grace and Glory:

I want to offer a different opinion, because I think it’s good for people to hear why some people dislike the movie.
I haven’t seen the movie, but someone I know who saw it left after 10 minutes because she was so disgusted by it. .

The 1st ten minutes was an action sequence…no theology, just KR, fighting a demon during an exorcism. I can’t believe someone would offer an opinion based on someone else watching the movie for 10 minutes.

 

[Grace_and_Glory]

The bulk of my opinion was based on the priest I know who saw the whole movie. I just mentioned the other person because she took part in the discussion about the movie. I would not have offered an opinion solely on that one person’s experience after ten minutes, but I included it to show that it was not just one priest or just one friend who disliked the movie. Rereading my post, I can see that I didn’t directly distinguish between my friend and the priest, but given that I described my friend as a “she” I thought that would be clear.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Sanveann:

My DH and I saw it last weekend. I agree that the Catholic theology was a bit off (particularly the part about ALL suicides going to hell), but I left feeling that if this movie doesn’t get people in church to learn how to avoid hell, I don’t know what will!

uhhhhh…don’t all suicides go to hell? if they meet the three conditions of mortal sin?

and also it wasn’t a movie about theology, of course they got the theology wrong, I am sure the Exerocist got the theology wrong as well, and that movie was loosely based on a real event. I can understand some of the Priests frustration, but at least the moive allowed for the existance of God. Really it was a B+ rated action flick that was very far away from the Truth, and realisticly can we expect a B+ rated action flick to get anything right?

 

[Sanveann]

Yes, but the conditions weren’t discussed For example, I would think that someone who was severely mentally ill and killed themselves wouldn’t meet the conditions of a mortal sin … but that wasn’t mentioned in the movie.

 

[Tyler_Smedley]

Right, if they were mentally ill than they might not have full knowledge of what they were doing, which means not a mortal sin. I agree that the movie was very vague on that, I would speculate whether or not they even knew that there was conditions to the “straight to hell” policy.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

As I was previously saying…

I just watched the movie Constantine yesterday, and wasn’t particularly impressed. It was O.K. for action, but there were long periods of boring talk, talk, talk, which did not add to the drama or suspense.

Keneau Reeves was good as a somewhat INS customs agent deporting illegal demons back to hell. His method of dispatch, exocisms, resembled the BLADE movies, i.e. they (the demons) turned to ashes.

This movie was very religiously ecumenical, as hell resembled Dante’s inferno, with the lower level of hell containing the writhing mass of the miserable damned. The demons just looked like aliens to me, and the Catholicism was minimum, basically kept to the exorcism. There was even a Voodoo witch doctor maintaining the balance via a demonic night club (again, just like BLADE).

Some part were extremely hoaky, like the gold Crucifix machine gun/flame thrower (i.e. dragon’s breath) just like in the movie VAN HELSING. Why would anybody use fire against a demon from hell? That’s like cussing at a sailor?

What I found offensive was the Arch-Angel Gabriel was a lesbian looking woman, who turned traitor and aided the son of satan entering into the human plane. And as punishment, Gabriel was turned into a human being, with his/her wings clipped, to experience all the pain that humans endure, and Constantine obliged by punching the Benedict Arnold/Gabriel in the mouth.

While suicide was demonstrated to be a mortal sin and a one way ticket to hell, it took a bunch of near death experiences to enter hell to scope out the situation (and a vial of holy water from the river Jordan to return before a swarm of soldier demons ripped you apart for eternity ).

The movie CONSTANTINE could have been so much better, but instead we get a mediocre action flick that borrows heavily from past horror/sci fi movies. Even though John Constantine used a pair of brass knuckles with crucifixes on the knuckles to punch out a demon (which was pretty cool), he did not impress as someone who was sufficiently world weary to act as cynical as he was portrayed.

John Constantine’s repartee with Lucifer/Satan was interesting, and it seems that Lucifer had some daddy issues with his son, who was trying to invade and devastate the Earth without his dad’s permission. Lucifer actually saved the day by sending his son back to hell. (I guess devils don’t get along?).

It was nice to see angels in full wingspread, but if I were the director, there would have been a dozen angels, including the Archangels Micheal, Gabriel, and Rapheal, using fiery swords to beat the hec out of the demons back into the basement from which they came. Hopefully Mel Gibson will provide that scene?

 

[Styree]

I saw the Movie last weekend. I agree with all the posts about the weakness of the theology and such, but I came away from the movie wondering about my family. I am the only one who goes to church. My younger brother is investigating the Orthodox Church, but my older brother and sis-in-law and mother don’t bother. The scenes of Hell were like the Inferno, but none the less, I feel a greater concern about saving souls than I did before.

 

[serendipity]

I saw it and thought it was entertaining and fairly original for an American movie. It is based on a comic book, so I certainly don’t think it was meant to be taken seriously. Keanu Reeves is not the best actor, but seems credible as a cartoonish personality. Maybe he should stick to that genre. Just something to see for fun. Kind of like star wars; which had pronounced good and evil too. I wouldn’t think of it as a horror movie, but more of an action flick similar to Ghostbusters, with less comdey.

 

[jdnation]

Kevin Walker:

What I found offensive was the Arch-Angel Gabriel was a lesbian looking woman, who turned traitor and aided the son of satan entering into the human plane. And as punishment, Gabriel was turned into a human being, with his/her wings clipped, to experience all the pain that humans endure, and Constantine obliged by punching the Benedict Arnold/Gabriel in the mouth.

I believe the idea behind that was for Gabriel to appear adrogenous, neither male or female but like we’d percieve an angel to look like a ‘beautiful’ youth. Sort of like how Mel Gibson had a woman play the androgenous devil in the Passion.

In the end it seemed like Gabriel went through it all simply to help Constantine.

 

[Ahimsa]

jdnation:

In the end it seemed like Gabriel went through it all simply to help Constantine.

I agree here. Whether Constantine liked it or not, by Gabriel doing what she did, Constantine was able to redeem himself in the eyes of God. And isn’t that what Gabriel always wanted? Constantine called her insane for wanting to introduce the son of Satan into the physical world – but sometimes, perhaps, we humans are at our best when pushed against the wall. Losing one’s angelic status – small price to be paid for helping one lonely, nicotine-addicted, lung-cancer afflicted human being lose his selfishness and actually start loving.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

jdnation:

I believe the idea behind that was for Gabriel to appear adrogenous, neither male or female but like we’d percieve an angel to look like a ‘beautiful’ youth. Sort of like how Mel Gibson had a woman play the androgenous devil in the Passion.

In the end it seemed like Gabriel went through it all simply to help Constantine.

I need to disagree with you on both observations. Androgynous refers to men doing the work of women and women doing the work of men, it does not refer to sexuality. I think you mean hermaphodite. A hermaphodite is a person or animal who shares both the sexual traits of male and female through a genetic mutation.

This is another case of the liberals hijacking a word, such as referring to a homosexual as Gay, to use as a euphemism to soften brutal realities. I’ve read in several movie reviews where the word Androgynous has been misused for hermaphodite.

Bats aren’t blind
Owls aren’t wise
Homosexuals aren’t Gay
and Androgyny =/=hemaphrodite

Also, in my humble opinion, in the movie Gabriel, the archangel had no altruistic intentions towards Constantine and would have completed the caesarian to release lucifer jr. on the world if it wasn’t for Constatine’s gambit.

The archangel Gabriel was insane, based on her rationalization to John Constantine, on releasing the son of satan onto the world, in total violation of God’s accord. Gabriel was forgiven and appropriately punished by being made human (with clipped wings).

What I found offensive was that Gabriel had been portrayed as a traitor and mentally damaged. The archangels Gabriel, Michael, and Raphael are proven items in their loyalty to God, as well as the four other archangels which stand by the throne of God, and by now are consistent in their loyalty.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Ahimsa:

I agree here. Whether Constantine liked it or not, by Gabriel doing what she did, Constantine was able to redeem himself in the eyes of God.

Constantine redeemed himself in the eyes of God by his act of altruism for the girl, by once again committing suicide and agreeing to lucifer to willingly spend eternity in hell in exchange for the girl. Lucifer said “THE SACRIFICE”.

And isn’t that what Gabriel always wanted? Constantine called her insane for wanting to introduce the son of Satan into the physical world – but sometimes, perhaps, we humans are at our best when pushed against the wall.

Constantine correctly identified Gabriel insane after she gave her bad reasoning to Constatine for unleashing the son of satan upon the Earth in egregious violation of God’s accord.

Losing one’s angelic status – small price to be paid for helping one lonely, nicotine-addicted, lung-cancer afflicted human being lose his selfishness and actually start loving.

The offensive flaw of this movie was that Gabriel was an ambitious self-serving angel who was willing to aid lucifer jr. enter this plane by murdering an innocent woman with the spear of destiny. I don’t even want to talk about how many heresies Gabriel commited in her service to satan. Obviously Gabriel was not helping Constantine at all through the movie and purposely feeding him disinformation about him not getting into heaven, when he achieved that feat on his own (and was thwarted by lucifer.). Gabriel showed zero love or altruism towards Constantine specifically or mankind in general.

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Ahimsa:

I agree here. Whether Constantine liked it or not, by Gabriel doing what she did, Constantine was able to redeem himself in the eyes of God.

Constantine redeemed himself in the eyes of God by his act of altruism for the girl, by once again committing suicide and agreeing to lucifer to willingly spend eternity in hell in exchange for the girl. Lucifer said “THE SACRIFICE”.

And isn’t that what Gabriel always wanted? Constantine called her insane for wanting to introduce the son of Satan into the physical world – but sometimes, perhaps, we humans are at our best when pushed against the wall.

Constantine correctly identified Gabriel insane after she gave her bad reasoning to Constatine for unleashing the son of satan upon the Earth in egregious violation of God’s accord.

Losing one’s angelic status – small price to be paid for helping one lonely, nicotine-addicted, lung-cancer afflicted human being lose his selfishness and actually start loving.

The offensive flaw of this movie was that Gabriel was an ambitious self-serving angel who was willing to aid lucifer jr. enter this plane by murdering an innocent woman with the spear of destiny. I don’t even want to talk about how many heresies Gabriel commited in her service to satan. Obviously Gabriel was not helping Constantine at all through the movie and purposely feeding him disinformation about him not getting into heaven, when he achieved that feat on his own (and was thwarted by lucifer.). Gabriel showed zero love or altruism towards Constantine specifically or mankind in general.

 

[Shiann]

Kevin Walker:

I need to disagree with you on both observations. Androgynous refers to men doing the work of women and women doing the work of men, it does not refer to sexuality. I think you mean hermaphodite. A hermaphodite is a person or animal who shares both the sexual traits of male and female through a genetic mutation.

No clue where you got this definition…

But:

Androgynous-
an·drog·y·nous , ADJ.

1. Biology. Having both female and male characteristics; hermaphroditic.
2. Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

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[From Latin androgynus, hermaphrodite, from Greek androgunos : andro-, andro- + gun, woman; see -gynous.]

Dictionary.com- Androgynous

 

[Kevin_Walker]

Shiann:

No clue where you got this definition…

Hi,

Just to answer your question:

.
Hermaphoditism: 1: “an anomolous condition in humans and animals in which both the male and female reproductive organs and secondary sexual characteristics are present in the same individual.”

the Merriam Webster Dictionary:

Androngyny: “2b. suitable for either sex
3. having traditional male and female roles obscured or reversed - an androgynous marriage” e.g., has a working woman and a house husband.

1980 Dictionary of Psychology (from my freshman Psych courses) "having to do with gender roles or role reversal.

---

So once again, the liberal writers have inappropriately hijacked yet another word as a euphemism: misusing “Gay” for homosexual; and misusing ‘Androgynous’ for bisexuality or transgendered.

To be precise: Androgynous refers to role reversal (economic role reversal, not sexual) and Hermaphrodism is the biological term refering to bisexuality.

 

[serendipity]

Kevin Walker:

Obviously Gabriel was not helping Constantine at all through the movie and purposely feeding him disinformation about him not getting into heaven, when he achieved that feat on his own (and was thwarted by lucifer.). Gabriel showed zero love or altruism towards Constantine specifically or mankind in general.

I didn’t liek the fact so much that Gabriel was portrayal was morally ambiguous at best. I don’t think Constatine incorrect information. She told him that he could not buy his way into heave. Which is true. people who perform acts of goodness only to enter heave, as opposed to performing them purely to pelase God or to selflessly help others are not likely to enter heaven. The gospel says as much, which it recoutnrs the story about the people who will be puzzeld to find out they are not going to heaven, crying “Lord, Lord but what about all the good things I have done” (loose praphrase here).

Gabriel also mentioend that her motivation for bringing Lucifer Jr, whatever his name was suppose to be, to the earth, was that many human beings become noble through suffering, and that Gabriel thought that in the end God would benefit form his creatures becoming more noble. Gabriel pointed out how much nobler Constatine ahd become through his suffering; he was now willing to risk his life and soul to save another, as an example.

Warped reasoning perhaps, but I would not say clearly evil. Evil actions, but the itnent seemed in the right place.

Kind of reminds me of peopel in the church who tell others to tolerate the sufferings of injust landlords who are depriving them of land and basic rights or to tolerate and husband who periodically beats you to a pulp, because Jesus suffered much through the Passion, and he triumphed over death, so that by their suffering in a tribute to God as well. That it is bettter to suffer opppression under a corrupt system that insitutionalizes abuse and offer the suffering to God, rather than seek to change or reform the system. Warped, misguided logic.