Contemporary music at mass

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whyeyeman

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A church must be a place in which you separate yourself from the world. The world is evil and is one of the three enemies of the soul, along with the flesh and the devil.
If music in churches is the same music as that which you find in everyday, worldly life, then this will not transport your mind to the heavenly realm. This is one of the main reasons why the church in Europe and America is dying - there is not much sense that churches and church services are something sacred.
Guitars and other contemporary instruments should be banned. Organs should be the only instruments aloud in churches, and traditional chanting the only form of singing.
 
whyeyeman said:
he same music as that which you find in everyday, worldly life, then this will not transport your mind to the heavenly realm. This is one of the main reasons why the church in Europe and America is dying - there is not much sense that churches and church services are something sacred.

Guitars and other contemporary instruments should be banned. Organs should be the only instruments aloud in churches, and traditional chanting the only form of singing.
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That doesn’t make sense. I also see people from the everyday world, wearing clothes from the everyday world sitting in pews made of wood from the everyday world, singing in voices that I hear in the everyday world. The every day world is God’s magnificent creation. I am more concerned about things like clapping at the end of mass like it was just a show for our entertainment, especially when people are maybe staying to pray. I think things like “please stand and greet those around you” at the beginning of mass when people are praying is also inappropriate. I only have concerns with things that take the focus off of the mass, and place it on us instead.
 
Your focus is not on the pews or People’s clothes or on the wood. However, a large part of your focus is directed to the music. If this music is manifestly worldly, then this can be troublesome for the spiritual orientation of the mass.
 
whyeyeman said:
Your focus is not on the pews or People’s clothes or on the wood. However, a large part of your focus is directed to the music. If this music is manifestly worldly, then this can be troublesome for the spiritual orientation of the mass.
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You are making an emotional argument not based on modern reality.

I had a secular co-worker who liked chant. He listened to it all day. Never darkened the door of a Church and had no particular affinty for God.

When Mass music was all people heard, it is what they would sing while doing their washing. Music dosn’t have magical properties. It’s just sound.
 
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In 1264 “Tantum Ergo” was a contemporary song.

In 1825, Schubert’s “Ave Maria” was a contemporary song.

In 2011, John Michael Talbot’s beautiful mass setting from the “Worship and Bow Down” album was contemporary.

Every hymn or spiritual song composed since the founding of the Church in 33 AD was contemporary at the time it was composed.

Where do you propose the line be drawn?
 
I simply disagree. Music chanted or played on an organ are just as worldly as any other music. I too enjoy the organ, and prefer it to contemporary music at mass, but to say that contemporary music ruins mass and should be banned isn’t really fair. The organ was a contemporary instrument at some point in time. I don’t see what time has to do with being “other worldly”. Would you find the lute or the lyre to be more acceptable than the guitar?
 
Mavzylor said:
I simply disagree. Music chanted or played on an organ are just as worldly as any other music. I too enjoy the organ, and prefer it to contemporary music at mass, but to say that contemporary music ruins mass and should be banned isn’t really fair. The organ was a contemporary instrument at some point in time. I don’t see what time has to do with being “other worldly”. Would you find the lute or the lyre to be more acceptable than the guitar?
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Very true. Some of the finest organs ever made were at ballparks and in theatres. Phantom of the Opera plays the organ, and that’s a truly secular play.
 
I think people on this thread are forgetting that the Magisterium DOES teach that only sacred music and sacred instruments are to be used in divine worship. The Church does distinguish between sacred and profane music. What constitutes sacred music and instruments? By default, for the Latin Church, Gregorian Chant and the pipe organ. This is all spelled out in black and white in the texts of the Second Vatican Council. Beyond that, it is for the bishops to say… and that may vary somewhat from region to region.
 
Gregorian chant is the most sacred and should be first and foremost placed above all other forms of music in the mass.

That is not a matter of opinion; even Vatican II called for Gregorian chant being held as more sacred and placed above other forms of music.

Several popes have also said Gregorian chant is the best music for the mass; it fits the mass.
 
Gregorian chant sounds awful to me. As far as I’m concerned, music is a matter of taste. Just because several popes like Gregorian chant doesn’t mean it is God’s music.
 
Could you point me to these “black and white” sources? I don’t remember Jesus saying, “and play the organ when you remember me”. All music that praises God is a gift from God.
 
The Church has the power of binding and loosing. What she decrees is so. Gregorian chant is an inherently sacred form of music. It was developed by the Church for the sole purpose of divine worship.
The Church allows other forms of music at the discretion of the bishop… but yes there is sacred music and there is profane music.
 
You keep saying that, but you aren’t actually referencing any official Church documentation. I’m trying to find it online myself, but I’m not finding anything.
 
Here is what the Catechism says:

"Singing and music

1156 "The musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater even than that of any other art. The main reason for this pre-eminence is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of solemn liturgy."20 The composition and singing of inspired psalms, often accompanied by musical instruments, were already closely linked to the liturgical celebrations of the Old Covenant. The Church continues and develops this tradition: “Address . . . one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with all your heart.” "He who sings prays twice."21

1157 Song and music fulfill their function as signs in a manner all the more significant when they are "more closely connected . . . with the liturgical action,"22 according to three principal criteria: beauty expressive of prayer, the unanimous participation of the assembly at the designated moments, and the solemn character of the celebration. In this way they participate in the purpose of the liturgical words and actions: the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful:23
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How I wept, deeply moved by your hymns, songs, and the voices that echoed through your Church! What emotion I experienced in them! Those sounds flowed into my ears distilling the truth in my heart. A feeling of devotion surged within me, and tears streamed down my face - tears that did me good.24
1158 The harmony of signs (song, music, words, and actions) is all the more expressive and fruitful when expressed in the cultural richness of the People of God who celebrate.25 Hence “religious singing by the faithful is to be intelligently fostered so that in devotions and sacred exercises as well as in liturgical services,” in conformity with the Church’s norms, “the voices of the faithful may be heard.” But "the texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine. Indeed they should be drawn chiefly from the Sacred Scripture and from liturgical sources."26 "
 
Yet that’s not what the Church teaches. Other instruments can be set aside for sacred use at the discretion of the bishop, but the pipe organ is deemed most suitable for sacred music. See the link in my previous post.
The Church sanctifies what she will… that the organ has been put to secular use has no bearing on the Church’s will.
 
That and that A Mighty Fortress Is Our God by Martin Luther is in out hymnal. And Amazing Grace.
 
All that says is that Gregorian chant and organs are held in high esteem. It doesn’t say that music played with guitars is less sacred. It even says, “But other kinds of sacred music, especially polyphony, are by no means excluded from liturgical celebrations, so long as they accord with the spirit of the liturgical action, as laid down in Art. 30”

Unfortunately, I don’t see where they’ve laid out what constitutes as “sacred music”, but I think I’m safe in assuming any instruments used to praise God is fine. There is nothing wrong with singing Psalms and playing the guitar.
 
whyeyeman said:
The world is evil and is one of the three enemies of the soul, along with the flesh and the devil.
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I am curious as to how you adopted this world view. It doesn’t sound Catholic at all. Is it Manichean or Gnostic perhaps?

Returning to your opening statement, I don’t see how the organ is considered more appropriate for church. The Bible tells us to praise the Lord with many different instruments including the lyre, a small string instrument plucked or strummed like a guitar. (Some lyres are short and broad like harps, but others are long and narrow like guitars.)
 
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