Contemporary music at mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter whyeyeman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The implication in the original text was that somehow the modern age is better than the 10th century. I was simply refuting this claim. Of course there was sin in the world then, because the world is an enemy of the soul.
 
exnihilo said:
40.png
Xanthippe_Voorhees:
No. I deny that the “head of the household” gets ANY grace not turned out measure for measure with EQUAL graces for the “heart of the household” which is the woman. These may, understandably be different graces but they are NOT, by any means more effective.

To say a man gets more grace than a woman during a sacrament that is administered equally between them would be to make a mockery of the whole institution of marriage and create a lasting imbalance of spiritual grace.

There is no such thing EVER indicated in scripture, CCC or Cannon Law. Even when the “head of the household” is supported, there is absolutely NO evidence that equal (but perhaps different) graces are not given to a woman.
Click to expand...
OK. So if I understand you accept the husband is the head of the household. But you deny he is given special graces necessary for this role? If so this also would be at odds with the Faith.

Both husband and wife are given graces to help them maintain their marriage. Both are given graces to raise their children. This grace of parents is an example of grace given to authority. But you think for some reason a grace is not offered to the role of head of the household.

Why the special exception where God doesn’t give grace for a position? In a quest for radical equality you are actually, no doubt inadvertently, lessening the goodness of God.
Click to expand...
My argument is that NO WHERE in scripture, CCC or Cannon law does it declare that the graces are given to “head of household” are any more efficient or pleasing to God than the graces given to the “heart of the household”. It is VERY clear in the CCC that marriage is equal so it would be a contradictory mocking of that equality for God to withhold a different but EQUAL grace from the woman.

IF extra graces are bestowed upon a man for “Head of Household” completely EQUAL graces are bestowed upon the “Heart of the household” AKA The woman.
 
Okay, I was wrong about this. There was lots wrong with the 10th century life. But people were on the whole more religious. This is a good thing.
 
whyeyeman said:
Okay, I was wrong about this. There was lots wrong with the 10th century life. But people were on the whole more religious. This is a good thing.
Click to expand...
Religious? Ehhh…more like supersticious.
 
I’m not going to go digging for documents because I don’t need to. With the constant teaching of the Church and basic logic we can know that husbands get grace necessary for their role as head of the household.

I never said the husband gets ‘more’ grace. I said grace necesssary for his role.

The main question was does having authority give one’s prayers extra importance. This question has been avoided and the topic sidetracked. It seems to me obviously so, all things being equal. This is why a parents prayers for a child has extra importance. Likewise the father, as head of the whole house.

The passage in Peter merely says don’t weaken the power of your prayer by not honoring your wife. No one has said that a holy wife’s prayer isn’t generally more efficacious than a unholy father’s.
 
Who lied and cheated and stole just the same as people do today…
 
Xanthippe_Voorhees said:
My argument is that NO WHERE in scripture, CCC or Cannon law does it declare that the graces are given to “head of household” are any more efficient or pleasing to God than the graces given to the “heart of the household”. It is VERY clear in the CCC that marriage is equal so it would be a contradictory mocking of that equality for God to withhold a different but EQUAL grace from the woman.

IF extra graces are bestowed upon a man for “Head of Household” completely EQUAL graces are bestowed upon the “Heart of the household” AKA The woman.
Click to expand...
You demand CCC or Canon Law for me. Where do you so prove your claims?

I’m sorry but it makes no sense if grace is given for a specific role that grace is absolutely equal in marriage. If you think that makes women lesser that is your problem and not mine. I don’t think that.
 
Seek You First- Lauren Daigle.
Closer- Bethel
Ever Be- Bethel
Some examples of modern songs that apparently don’t transfer the mind to the heavenly realm?

Because they aren’t centuries old.
 
Last edited:
Maybe - but they weren´t necesarrily more spiritual or devout. Religion was not an option as there was no secularization, but that doens´t mean they were more connected to god.
 
exnihilo said:
40.png
Xanthippe_Voorhees:
My argument is that NO WHERE in scripture, CCC or Cannon law does it declare that the graces are given to “head of household” are any more efficient or pleasing to God than the graces given to the “heart of the household”. It is VERY clear in the CCC that marriage is equal so it would be a contradictory mocking of that equality for God to withhold a different but EQUAL grace from the woman.

IF extra graces are bestowed upon a man for “Head of Household” completely EQUAL graces are bestowed upon the “Heart of the household” AKA The woman.
Click to expand...
You demand CCC or Canon Law for me. Where do you so prove your claims?

I’m sorry but it makes no sense if grace is given for a specific role that grace is absolutely equal in marriage. If you think that makes women lesser that is your problem and not mine. I don’t think that.
Click to expand...
Facts prove my point.

You’re now reversing and saying the same thing I am. Different but EQUAL grace poured out on a woman.

This started because you are trying to argue pro-Rippigener that his claim that a husband’s prayers are more effective for the family is somehow true. Even if we argue that a man gets graces for being the “head of household” there is NO evidence that a woman dosn’t have EQUAL grace and that her prayers would have any lesser affect on a family.
 
exnihilo said:
The main question was does having authority give one’s prayers extra importance. This question has been avoided and the topic sidetracked. It seems to me obviously so, all things being equal. This is why a parents prayers for a child has extra importance.
Click to expand...
I really would not venture the idea that my prayers are more efficacious than my children’s prayers.

See Matthew 18:

“18 At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them, 3 and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”

“10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.”

It really is not in the spirit of the Gospel to assert that persons in authority are closer to God or that their prayers are more heavily weighted.
 
By ‘contemporary’ I don’t mean written recently, I mean that they are songs of modern genres.
 
When the gregorian chant cames up, there could have been a similar discussion. Everything was new one day.
 
Why did the man always act as the priest of his family in old testament times? Why does the man always lead the family in prayer? Because they are the spiritual head of the household
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top