Contemporary music at mass

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Boler said:
Why are you and others giving @whyeyeman such a hard time? He’s just making a point, not asserting a gnostic “matter is evil” claim.
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But he is claiming that. Look at his original post, which begins with this:
whyeyeman said:
A church must be a place in which you separate yourself from the world. The world is evil and is one of the three enemies of the soul, along with the flesh and the devil.
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A few other members and I have denounced this as Manichean or Gnostic, and whyeyeman defends it with quotations from saints and old writings. I get the impression that he has encountered this world view on the Internet, and has found it somewhat attractive, but has not had the time or the guidance of a teacher or a spiritual director that would be necessary to examine it more deeply and fully understand it.
 
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RandomAlias said:
A few other members and I have denounced this as Manichean or Gnostic, and whyeyeman defends it with quotations from saints and old writings. I get the impression that he has encountered this world view on the Internet, and has found it somewhat attractive, but has not had the time or the guidance of a teacher or a spiritual director that would be necessary to examine it more deeply and fully understand it.
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If you get this impression then why not ask if he is a gnostic? Why assume he is?

The world is an evil place, but that doesn’t mean there is no good in it or no happiness. Gnosticism is an extreme. As always Catholicism is a both and. The world is both evil and good. Mentioning the evil doesn’t mean you ignore the good.
 
I would have to disagree. The message in the lyrics can be very powerful and uplifting in contemporary worship songs. Seems to me that if a person finds that type of music to be fulfilling when they attend mass, then they should attend contemporary masses. Those who do not like contemporary worship music probably shouldn’t attend those masses. No need to claim that either are wrong, worthless, invalid and certainly not evil.
 
exnihilo said:
If you get this impression then why not ask if he is a gnostic? Why assume he is?
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I asked, at post #20 of this thread.
RandomAlias said:
I am curious as to how you adopted this world view. It doesn’t sound Catholic at all. Is it Manichean or Gnostic perhaps?
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To my knowledge, his replies have not answered this question, and I suspect it is because he is not familiar with the terminology or the philosophy, due to his youth. I did not want to mention his age, but I believe it is a factor in his adoption of this world view.
 
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I agree. I have no idea of the circumstances of this boy’s life. But he is not so impoverished that he does not have access to internet and a device to use it. But from his postings, he sounds in need of some spiritual and psychological guidance.
 
whyeyeman said:
Guitars and other contemporary instruments should be banned. Organs should be the only instruments aloud in churches, and traditional chanting the only form of singing.
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In music, the organ (from Greek ὄργανον organon, “organ, instrument, tool”) is a keyboard instrument of one or more pipe divisions or other means for producing tones, each played with its own keyboard, played either with the hands on a keyboard or with the feet using pedals. The organ is a relatively old musical instrument, dating from the time of Ctesibius of Alexandria (285–222 BC), who invented the water organ. It was played throughout the Ancient Greek and Ancient Roman world, particularly during races and games. During the early medieval period it spread from the Byzantine Empire, where it continued to be used in secular (non-religious) and imperial court music, to Western Europe, where it gradually assumed a prominent place in the liturgy of the Catholic Church.[3] Subsequently it re-emerged as a secular and recital instrument in the Classical music tradition.
 
It’s all good saying that, but do you care to refute it? Are these saints wrong?
 
Again, it’s all good insulting me. But do you care to address my arguments? Are these saints wrong?
 
The Organ would be considered Contemporary when it was introduced into Mass.
Up until the Organ was introduced, the Lute, Lyre, and Flute, and various Percussion Instruments of the day were of the norm.
 
I know what a Gnostic is. They believe the world was created by an evil being called a demiurge. They think that creation itself is intrinsically evil.
I deny this claim. The world was created good, out of love by God. But due to original sin and the angels rebellion, it has been corrupted.
 
O would like to quote St. Augustine to try to convince you.

“The sky and the earth and the waters and the things that are in them, the fishes, and the birds and the trees are not evil. All these are good; it is evil men who make this evil world.”
 
I think I replied to Boler, instead of to you in an above post. I said " I refuse to cherry pick. I will just say “Be not afraid.”
 
A couple of years ago, at the parish I attended, there were two young women who provided the music for Mass. One played the flute, and the other the violin. The music was so beautiful, it sometimes brought tears to my eyes. When they moved on to college, or whatever it was such a loss.
 
There is a Church where I did my KOC 4th degree, the Mass afterwards (Saturday), the music is done completely in native middle east instruments. Makes me believe that is how the Early Church Mass was done prior to the Organ.
 
The topic of this thread is “Contemporary music at mass”. Why don’t you start another thread on the evil world?
 
JoshuaIsLord said:
The Organ would be considered Contemporary when it was introduced into Mass.

Up until the Organ was introduced, the Lute, Lyre, and Flute, and various Percussion Instruments of the day were of the norm.
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Wow. Where are you getting this from? I would love to see a source. Here is what I read about this topic:
Attitudes toward Music among the Fathers . The rejection of all musical instruments from Christian worship is consistent among the Fathers. These were associated with pagan, orgiastic rites. For this reason the descriptions in the Old Testament of the temple worship with different kinds of instruments were interpreted allegorically. The heavy influence of Platonic musical aesthetics can be found in the Fathers, especially in Clement of Alexandria and Chrysostom (probably through the writings of Philo). Plato insisted on the need to control the music of the community in order to protect morals. Once the proper number for music was found, it should not be abandoned. The Psalms, thus argued Chrysostom, were divinely given to the Church and were the inspired word. They were the earthly reflection of the divine harmony. In general, the Fathers could be divided into two classes in their attitude toward music: those who accepted it and its beauty, provided the vox and mens were in agreement (Basil, Cassiodorus and Benedict); and those who feared the pleasures of music as contrary to the ascetical Christian ideal (Jerome is the supreme example).
 
Yes, truth is absolute. Although, the facts or truths we absorb go through our bias filters. So the truth itself may be absolute, but the way we see it may not be the right way to see it…
 
Indyann said:
The topic of this thread is “Contemporary music at mass”. Why don’t you start another thread on the evil world?
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You can also start one on the canonization of St. Thomas a Kempis. 😁
whyeyeman said:
Lol - I’ll admit I’m wrong about that.
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Oops, I forgot the smiley.
 
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