Contemporary Praise Music - Too sensual?

[ASimpleSinner]

I have never been a big fan of contempoarary Christian praise & worship music. In many orthodox faithful communities and places it seems to have achieved a status of respectability. It is even frequently used in the Mass by some groups and in some places.

Recently, talking to an aquaintance who is a full time church musician at a Catholic parish, who has a preference for this style over organ music or more traditionaly hymnody or chant, I have been forced to confront what it is about praise music that I just don’t care for. She is certainly orthodox, loyal to the Magisterium and very supportive of the teen ministry groups that promote the same…

But in attempting to apply the maxim “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity,” I am still left with misgivings about that style of music that I can’t just attribute to “personal taste”

Not meaning to be sarcastic or rude, but my experience with praise worship music is that it has a certain vapid top-40 sensibility to it… it comes accross as very sensual at times in a way I find incongruent with matters and situations of worship. Too much of it comes accross sounding like a sensual “Boyfriend Jesus” *a la *Celine Dion’s sappy Titanic theme, or some sort of Hillary Duff-esque light-rockin “Jesus as my crush” or maybe a type of soft-rock ballad like Journey used to offer… Next time you are hear some of these songs, replace "Savior" with "boyfriend" or "Lord" with “Baby”… You will see what I am getting at.

The effect of “swooning” comes to mind. It seems very much to especially appeal to young women who close their eyes, clasp a hand to their chest, put one in the air and have a look to them like they are about to get the “big romanitc hollywood kiss” in a movie…

It seems to lend itself to a sort of sensuality that is just odd to me at the Eucharistic sacrifice. Passions that get sparked… Well, they seem out of place in that setting.

Is this simply my aesthetic sensibilities showing up on the radar, or are others here bothered by this sort of music in the context of a Mass?

Am I just a young fogey or fuddy-duddy because when I compare chant or hymnody to CP&W music I see a radical and slightly unsettlling difference?

 

[veritashunter]

In regards to the “Praise and Worship” style there is a lot to consider. The first must always be to preserve worship over fellowship. This is one of the greatest flaws in “Protestant-like” styles of worship. No matter what the reason we must realize that we are there to worship God incarnate at the Mass/Divine Liturgy of our Lord. If such style(s) in any manner interfere in this most important maxim of the True Faith then reject it.

With that in mind we must look at what is permitted by the Law of the Church, the Catechism, and the norms of the Rite. For instance, the Melkite (Syrian/Lebanese Greek Catholic Rite) is strictly governed by a method of worship that is acapello/voice-only in divine worship. It does not apply to special complimentary celebrations such as a Chrismas concert or children’s program but does strictly apply to the celebration of the Divine Liturgy/Mass. If it is not in compliance with these norms then it must be not be used or promoted.

The Latin Rite is more liberal in some regards but these relaxations of the norms have been quite harmful in some applications as I have personally experienced in a charismatic Roman Catholic Church in Montreal. Eucharistic ministers were attempting to co-concecrate on the altar. In this case a legitimate relaxation of the norm for use of extraordinary ministers led to an abuse and the possible invalidation of the celebration of the Mass/Divine Liturgy.

So, I feel that your concerns are quite relevant and legitimate. In the American-Western Church many well-intentioned individuals have tried to “enhance” the experience of the Mass in order to court those who might otherwise abdicate the Church for evangelical Protestant Christian assemblies. But, it has led to a devaluation and sometimes disbelief in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the necessity for the Sacraments, and scandal within the Church. The approach has many times been reactionary and best summarized as a “fire-ready-aim” mentality (as opposed to a “Ready-Aim-Fire” approach).

If it meets the criteria set forth by Rome (or another Catholic Patriarch in Communion with Rome such as in the Byzantine Rites) so be it. But if it does not or it reduces the sanctity of worship in exchange for greater Christian fellowship, then avoid it like the plague. Because we must always be focused on God and “right worship” first. Worship only travels in one direction…toward God. If it comes back at you it is no longer worship…praise (maybe)…fellowship (yes)…but not worship of God. Thanks for keeping the faith.

By the way, there is a book called “In Defense of the Faithful” that touches on this topic in a few places.

 

[Sabda]

No, you are not the only one. I have noticed it myself. We now have a Christian (Protestant) station in our area. The music is not bad, but a lot of it is way to boy/girl love. Now, not all of it is like that. I have heard some really good songs that would not be a problem in Mass. But the ones this station likes to play are way to much like the rock songs which sing about romantic love. I think if your going to do Christian music you should try to make it be “in the world but not of the world”. Too many of the songs I hear are “of the world”. It may just be when I’m hearing it or this particular station. Like I said the songs are not bad. They would definitely NOT be appropriate for Mass though.

veritashunter,

At our Latin Rite parish, we do acapello. I’ll admit when I first started going there it was a little strange but now, I really like it. When I go to my mom’s parish with the full organ choir it is sooooo distracting and strange.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

At our Latin Rite parish, we do acapello. I’ll admit when I first started going there it was a little strange but now, I really like it. When I go to my mom’s parish with the full organ choir it is sooooo distracting and strange.

acapella done well can be amazing. I attended a 7am Mass with about 20 folks one weekday morning at a Dominican parish. When the small congregation started to chant the Agnus Dei in Latin, in spite of myself I turned around to see where all the people had come from! No, still just 20 people there, but chanting in unison, in that old church almost blew the windows out. To me that was VERY moving…

I find the contemporary stuff just too distracting…

 

[NPC]

In my opinion, a lot of modern church-music is unsuitable for use at Mass. I can’t think of examples off-hand at the moment, but I find that, as people have already said, the music is not focused on what it should be focused on - praising God. As an organist, I have to accompany many different types of hymn and I certainly feel that a lot of modern music lacks the sense of ‘sanctity’ of time-honoured hymns.

My personal preference is for Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphony. Obviously if one expects the congregation to join in, polyphony can’t really be used; but Chant is a valuable music-form which must be encouraged. It is often referred to as Plain-Chant - but it is anything but plain; while it is relatively easy to sing, there is a beauty and sense of mysteriousness when one sings it, which no modern composer has equalled. As I see it, Gregorian Chant is making a comeback - so many parishes are setting aside one Sunday Mass where only Chant will be sung. I have no doubt that in 20 years’ time we will have forgotten most of our ‘modern’ music - Chant, on the other hand, has survived for well over a thousand years and will certainly outlive us all, so it is important that we preserve it. It really is a great treasure that the Church possesses.

 

[VociMike]

They did this one at our church recently. Quite astonishing lyrics to hear at a Mass, really.

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Cause Your love is extravagant

Chorus:
Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Your love is extravagant

Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate

 

[theweeper]

was there a time when the music we consider proper now was seen as too contemporary or sensual? like when it was written maybe?

 

[LilyM]

was there a time when the music we consider proper now was seen as too contemporary or sensual? like when it was written maybe?

Exactly - ladies used to swoon to Mozart or Beethoven in their day. Now it’s R & B.

And the Bible is full of love imagery of a similar type to the above song, and chock-full of imagery of God or Christ as the bridegroom.

Song of Songs, anyone? ‘stay me with flagons (wine), refresh me with apples, for I am sick with love’ … And plenty more, as you should know VM, that is much more raunchy than your song!

 

[agapewolf]

They did this one at our church recently. Quite astonishing lyrics to hear at a Mass, really.

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Cause Your love is extravagant

Chorus:
Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Your love is extravagant

Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate

I don’t see what is so “astonishing” (your words) to hear this. This is exactly what happens when we receice the Eucharist. We become one with God. This is our relationship with Him (remember…marriage images the trinity and the relationship between Christ and His bride). The words capture perfectly what happens at Communion time. (Except that I change one word to make it more “catholic”. I change the word “cover” to “wash”).

Read theology of the body and Song of songs to learn more.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Sounds like the Song of Solomon. There is quite a bit of husband/wife imagery in the Bible. And many, many contempletive Saints use the ‘Christ as the Bridegroom’ imagery in their writings.

No, I’m not too fond of this music either (mostly because I don’t like the pop-sounding music itself) and I wouldn’t want to hear it during Mass. But as long as the lyrics themselves are theologically correct (and in songs written by Protestants that is not always the case), I don’t mind listening to it on the radio.

They did this one at our church recently. Quite astonishing lyrics to hear at a Mass, really.

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Cause Your love is extravagant

Chorus:
Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate
I feel I’m moving to the rhythm of Your grace
Your fragrance is intoxicating in the secret place
Your love is extravagant

Spread wide in the arms of Christ is the love that covers sin
No greater love have I ever known; You considered me a friend
Capture my heart again

Your love is extravagant
Your friendship, it is intimate

 

[VociMike]

Song of Songs, anyone? ‘stay me with flagons (wine), refresh me with apples, for I am sick with love’ … And plenty more, as you should know VM, that is much more raunchy than your song!

And how much of that “raunchy” text was traditionally sung at Mass? Show me the Propers that set that “raunchy” text.

It’s amazing to me that everybody is now jumping on the Song of Songs in response, as though those “raunchy” texts are sung at Mass all the time. Apples and oranges, people. We’re talking liturgical music here, as specifically referenced in my post.

 

[Sr_Sally]

And how much of that “raunchy” text was traditionally sung at Mass? Show me the Propers that set that “raunchy” text.

It’s amazing to me that everybody is now jumping on the Song of Songs in response, as though those “raunchy” texts are sung at Mass all the time. Apples and oranges, people. We’re talking liturgical music here, as specifically referenced in my post.

Interestingly enough, lots of the Song of Solomon was traditionally read/sung in Jewish Sabbath services. My Orthodox friend who told me this also speculated that the reason was so that the married couples would then go home with ‘ideas’ and make more wonderful little Jewish babies.

 

[VociMike]

Interestingly enough, lots of the Song of Solomon was traditionally read/sung in Jewish Sabbath services. My Orthodox friend who told me this also speculated that the reason was so that the married couples would then go home with ‘ideas’ and make more wonderful little Jewish babies.

Which is interesting (really ) but has nothing to do with liturgical music for use in the Catholic Mass.

 

[LilyM]

Which is interesting (really ) but has nothing to do with liturgical music for use in the Catholic Mass.

Read Song of Songs during Mass or sing it - you say po-tah-to and I say po-tay-to

 

[RobNY]

I find the contemporary stuff just too distracting…

I agree, but most people don’t. If you’ve cultivated a prayerful life you’ve had to ‘quiet down’ a little. Anything which rouses one to excitement would tend to disrupt the deep prayerful rhythm.

But if you haven’t, and you are just used to pop entertainment, then this contemporary music is probably very accessible. It’s the same language-- or at least tries to be the same language-- of entertainment which our culture at large is familiar with.

Granted, I think it usually does it rather poorly, but it is in the same language. That’s probably why it is disruptive. It’s as if you turned on a pop station. That is an idiom where we don’t expect the sacred, and so I think it brings many of us into a different mood, that is, other than one that is appropriate.

As a further note, I think something has to be said for the banality of music. There must come a point where we realize that, while it is good for liturgy to be beautiful, everything man makes or does falls short of bringing us happiness. And so too will liturgy. It is a foretaste of heaven, but not heaven itself. Trying to make the liturgy relevant and entertaining, in this sense, is fated to fail, because part of what we must realize as we love God more is the absolute inadequacy of created things to make us happy. The irony, then, is that music such as chant is good because it is ‘boring.’ It doesn’t try to excite or entertain us, and so we never need to worry about keeping it exciting or entertaining, or for that matter, new and fresh so that we don’t become bored of it. What becomes old and familiar can never be entertaining in the sense that pop music can, but it can be a very good entry into prayer.

---

All this being said, there are some good ‘worship’ songs. The problem with some of them, though, is quite simply that it is awkward to be so openly maudlin in public for most people. And if you feel awkward then you’re making mass awkward by having this music.

-Rob

 

[VociMike]

I agree, but most people don’t. If you’ve cultivated a prayerful life you’ve had to ‘quiet down’ a little. Anything which rouses one to excitement would tend to disrupt the deep prayerful rhythm.

But if you haven’t, and you are just used to pop entertainment, then this contemporary music is probably very accessible. It’s the same language-- or at least tries to be the same language-- of entertainment which our culture at large is familiar with.

Granted, I think it usually does it rather poorly, but it is in the same language. That’s probably why it is disruptive. It’s as if you turned on a pop station. That is an idiom where we don’t expect the sacred, and so I think it brings many of us into a different mood, that is, other than one that is appropriate.

As a further note, I think something has to be said for the banality of music. There must come a point where we realize that, while it is good for liturgy to be beautiful, everything man makes or does falls short of bringing us happiness. And so too will liturgy. It is a foretaste of heaven, but not heaven itself. Trying to make the liturgy relevant and entertaining, in this sense, is fated to fail, because part of what we must realize as we love God more is the absolute inadequacy of created things to make us happy. The irony, then, is that music such as chant is good because it is ‘boring.’ It doesn’t try to excite or entertain us, and so we never need to worry about keeping it exciting or entertaining, or for that matter, new and fresh so that we don’t become bored of it. What becomes old and familiar can never be entertaining in the sense that pop music can, but it can be a very good entry into prayer.

---

All this being said, there are some good ‘worship’ songs. The problem with some of them, though, is quite simply that it is awkward to be so openly maudlin in public for most people. And if you feel awkward then you’re making mass awkward by having this music.

-Rob

Good points, Rob. I liken our mental and spiritual “realignment” in the liturgy to what happens when one goes to a theater to see a play. At first the house lights are up, the curtains are closed, and people are doing their normal things - talking, on the phone, fiddling about - all things which, let’s be very clear, are perfectly OK in their place. But then the house lights go down, the curtain opens, the stage lights go up, and the people’s focus is drawn away from their everyday activities and onto the “alternate universe” which is presented on the stage.

The problem with secular-style music and so many other questionable liturgical practices is that, in my analogy, they tend to keep the house lights up and the curtain partly drawn. The movement of our focus is interrupted and so we are never properly transported from the everyday world to the “alternate universe” of liturgical worship. We end up with a foot in both camps, and thus our experience is neither a good secular experience nor a good liturgical worship experience. It is, in the pointed words of Christ, neither hot nor cold but only lukewarm.

 

[Sr_Sally]

Which is interesting (really ) but has nothing to do with liturgical music for use in the Catholic Mass.

Yeah, but I couldn’t resist sharing!

 

[SFO]

Too much of it comes accross sounding like a sensual “Boyfriend Jesus” *a la *Celine Dion’s sappy Titanic theme, or some sort of Hillary Duff-esque light-rockin “Jesus as my crush” or maybe a type of soft-rock ballad like Journey used to offer… Next time you are hear some of these songs, replace "Savior" with "boyfriend" or "Lord" with “Baby”… You will see what I am getting at.

As disturbing as it might be, South Park did an episode spoofing comtemporary Christian music, which poked fun at the lyrics and how insincere these musicians can be.

–

“All right, guys, this is gonna be so easy. All we have to do to make Christian songs is take regular old songs and add Jesus stuff to them. some sheet music is shown. Cartman has already crossed out the original author’s name See? All we have to do is cross out words like ‘baby’ and ‘Darling’ and replace them with ‘Jesus.’ All right, Butters, give me a beat. Okay, nice. Very nice. All right, Token, give me a smooth bass line.”

 

[Wolseley]

Next time you are hear some of these songs, replace "Savior" with "boyfriend" or "Lord" with “Baby”… You will see what I am getting at.

“Nothing you could say
Can tear me away from my God;
Nothing you could do
'Cause I’m stuck like glue to my God…”

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/75/Plans-330442.jpg/200px-Plans-330442.jpg

And there were parishes that actually used that song after the release of that silly movie.

Am I just a young fogey or fuddy-duddy because when I compare chant or hymnody to CP&W music I see a radical and slightly unsettlling difference?

No, I think you’re just making a rather astutue observation about the American mindset that has developed over the last 40 years, into the “entertainment” mode. Too many people go to Mass to be “entertained”, and everything has to be slanted to that end, or they don’t “feel fulfilled”. Much of it is banal and superficial, the type of stuff that you hear in Protestant mega-churches, (or Top 40 radio), and is, to be blunt, absolutely wretched.

 

[Sr_Sally]

But that is such a cute movie! LOL