Continuing in the tradition

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Matthew25

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With the recent news by the Pope of nuns being “Sex Slaves” to priests and rape of nuns by priests, nuns being forced to have abortions, on top of the scandals with children, please tell me what other organization you would still belong to if these things happened? I can’t take anymore. I know the “standard” answers. I really can’t think of a reason to stay any longer. I would appreciate real answers. Thank you.
 
Matthew25 said:
I really can’t think of a reason to stay any longer.
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John, Chapter 6:
66 As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore. 67 So Jesus said to the twelve, “You do not want to go away also, do you?” 68 Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life. 69 “We have believed and have come to know that You are the Holy One of God.”
 
Again, “standard answer”, and taken completely out of context. With all due respect, I would hope that if Jesus would have said “abuse these young ones and rape these women”, I would hope everyone would have walked away. I’m not walking away from Jesus.
 
Well, I gave it a shot. Sorry it didn’t come up to your standards. I see you joined the forum an hour ago. Welcome!
 
Thank you. Glad to be here. I joined to ask that one question. I appreciate your answer but I hear that all the time and it doesn’t work when the organization has been corrupted to the point it has. And my original question was “what other organizations would people still belong to that has this level of corruption”? I know two answers. 1. Well the church is the church with all it’s faults. 2. The other answer is, none. I’m not coming here to pick fights but challenge myself and seek answers from others. I really do appreciate your attempt.
 
We have the Real Presence, we have Apostolic Tradition. It is God’s Church. Jesus told us it would be worth it, he didn’t say it would be easy.
 
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None of us here know what you think of as “standard answers.” I assume, though, that you want truth. I understand if some “standard answers” are unsatisfying or uncomfortable. That doesn’t mean they aren’t true. So some comments I’ve made previously about this issue…
But would I ever say to Christ, “Hey, thanks for dying for me and all, and I know the Mass allows me to be at Your foot on Calvary and to receive You fully, but I really can’t stand the other people You allow to be there with me, so I’m gonna pass”? Answer: no.
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Look to the generation before the baby boomers. Virtually no one from that group in my own family has left. They’re committed Catholics who are completely unswayed. They’re sick at heart about what’s happening currently — but they know that during the Mass, we’re all at the foot of Christ’s cross on Calvary and they refuse to abandon Him.
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I’m looking at the Church a bit differently now. I’m still staying – I’m Catholic by baptism, not by the man who baptized me or any other priest. And I won’t abandon Christ, who really is present in the Mass.
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If one really believes in the teachings of the Church, nothing can pry him or her from the Mass because Christ is there. If one doesn’t believe in the True Presence, I’m not sure that anyone here could say anything to help.
 
If you dismiss the words of the Gospels as a “standard answer”, then you’ve kind of lost the plot as to why we are all in the Church to begin with.
The ONLY reason to be in the Church is to follow Jesus the best that we can and to be in his Real Presence in the Church that He wants us to be in.
That is IT.
We’re not here for the priests.

Whether the clergy are all saints or all terrible sinners is completely irrelevant to me following Jesus. If the clergy are sinning, then the correct response is to pray for them and to pray to God to help His church and His priests to become more holy, not to be a “fair weather Catholic” and walk out the door.

We don’t belong to the Church because everybody in it is so good and perfect; some people are and many are not. It’s easy to be a Catholic when the PR is good and everybody’s happy. It’s when some of your fellow Catholics, including priests, mess up and the press runs a lot of bad stories that the rubber meets the road and we find out who the true, faithful Catholics are, as opposed to the ones who hop off the bus because a priest didn’t live up to expectations or they had to deal with reading a bad news story about the Church.

I have been reading stories about clergy sexual abuse and financial abuse and other bad stuff since at least the late 1970s. As I have said many times on here, this is not news. No matter what they come up with, it’s happened before in 2000 years of church history. I haven’t gone anywhere and not going anywhere. I’m not a fair weather Catholic and I don’t leave Jesus because of Judas.

And most, I would say the vast majority, of priests I meet don’t commit crimes.
 
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I still belong as citizen to the society that is my native country, even though it has many injustices and evils (and also many good things). The Catholic Church is a society and it does not just belong to those who do evil, it belongs to all of us. It is our community which Christ gave us for our salvation and endowed with what we need to save our souls. Just because this society also has criminals and evil people does not mean we should abandon what is rightfully ours.

Our religion precedes these evil men, they will be judged by it by the Just Judge, and it will last long after they have gone to receive their just reward.
 
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Matthew25 said:
I appreciate your answer but I hear that all the time and it doesn’t work when the organization has been corrupted to the point it has.
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There are multiple counts all over the news of public school teachers physically and sexually abusing children. If you do, did, or will have children, will you completely turn your back on the schools?

Have you been to a hospital, or do you intend to use one in the event of an emergency or serious illness? Yea, about that . . . The Hospitals That Overcharge Patients by 1,000 Percent - The Atlantic What about your doctor? Dollars for Docs - ProPublica

Do you have a bank account? Are you aware of what the big banks did to us in the early otts?

And don’t even get me started about voting in the era of lobbyist bribes and lesser-evil candidates!

Honestly, I homeschool, appreciate modern medicine when I need it, and moved all of my finances to a credit union. And yes, I vote.

But name for me one institution that has not in any way fallen into corruption. I still need to educate my children, seek occasional medical care, bank our earnings, engage in civic participation, and follow Christ. If we avoid institutions because of their vulnerability to and participation in corruption, it’s a losing game.

Abandoning the Church won’t make her less corrupt. We do what we can by through justice, healing, reconciliation, and above all, prayer.
 
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It is the level of corruption. The exposure only shines light on it. This isn’t just about one or two people. This wide spread corruption and the systematic coverup should be objectable every Catholic. And if so it can’t just be brushed aside as “well it’s always been this way”.
 
True, however we’re not just talking about “citizens” we’re talking “leaders” all the way to the top. Corruption at that level must be challenged.
 
Matthew25 said:
It is the level of corruption. The exposure only shines light on it. This isn’t just about one or two people. This wide spread corruption and the systematic coverup should be objectable every Catholic. And if so it can’t just be brushed aside as “well it’s always been this way”.
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Who is brushing aside the corruption and evil?
 
The fact that we don’t all up and leave the Church en masse does not mean we don’t find it objectionable.
I think it’s important that we support the bishops and priests who are genuinely trying to fix the problem and correct the evil that was done to prevent this from happening again and build a stronger and less corrupt church.

Suppose my parish has a corrupt pastor who turns out to have done all these bad things you mention. This comes to light, and either the pastor is then removed, or the pastor perhaps is already long retired or even dead when I find out about it. Either way, there’s a new pastor in the driver’s seat, trying to do a good job and repair the damage caused by the last guy.
How does me leaving the church because I’m upset about the former pastor’s behavior help anything?

It makes no sense and just makes me look like some toddler having a temper tantrum instead of someone actually trying to behave like a Christian member of Christ’s Church.
 
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