Contraception and vocations

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NFP is not

TMC:
You can keep saying that, it does not make it so.

I am a well catechized Catholic. I understand that the Church teaches that it is licit to use NFP to have sex without conceiving. I would hope we agree that is what the Church teaches. The Church defines that particular method of avoiding conception (NFP) as something other than “contraception;” that is a definitional issue within the Church. But to non-Catholics, methods to have sex without conceiving are pretty much the definition of “contraception.”

Please note - I am not saying the Church is not entitled to define NFP out of the Church’s view of what constitutes illicit contraception - of course the Church can do that. But why would you expect anyone else to agree that this particular form of avoiding conception is not contraception - that is a moral judgment of the Church, and nothing more or less.
 
Here is exactly the point:
NFP is not “a method of avoiding conception approved by the Church”.
That’s not what it is, that’s not what it’s purpose is, and the fact that we are going around about this proves the point I am trying to get across.
 
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Here is exactly the point:
NFP is not “a method of avoiding contraception approved by the Church”.
That’s not what it is , that’s not what it’s purpose is, and the fact that we are going around about this proves the point I am trying to get across.
Then what is it? It is a way to have sex while avoiding getting pregnant.
 
It is a method of willfully timing sex so there is a reduced chance of pregnancy occurring. There is no other way around it. You can put your window dressing on it however you like. That is fine. But when you tell people it isn’t for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy, you are insulting them. You are implying you believe they lack the intelligence to know what you say is false.
 
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I just read the first several pages but even on the first page it states…
NFP methods are based on the observation of the naturally occurring signs and symptoms of the fertile and infertile phases of a woman’s menstrual cycle . No drugs, devices, or surgical procedures are used to avoid pregnancy.

…avoid pregnancy…which means conception so contra=against and ception=conception.

As a non Christian, how is NFP other than a natural method to avoid pregnancy.

What am I missing here? Thank you.
 
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C’mon people. You see what you want to see, leave the rest out, and then do confirmation bias. You are doing minimalist reading here to confirm a negative stereotype of the issue.
The first page of the USCCB discussion says this:
God designed marriage as an “intimate partnership of life and love” (see Gaudium et spes , no. 48). In God’s design, marriage is a unique union of one man with one woman “for the whole of life” (see Canon 1055, The Code of Canon Law ). Marriage is oriented to the good of the spouses and to the creation and nurture of new human life (see Gaudium et spes , no. 48). Making decisions therefore, about when and how many children to have in marriage is a sacred responsibility that God has entrusted to husband and wife. This is the foundation of what the Church calls, “Responsible Parenthood”–the call to discern God’s will for your marriage while respecting His design for life and love.

The Catholic Church supports the methods of Natural Family Planning (NFP) because they respect God’s design for married love. In fact, NFP represents the only authentic approach to family planning available to husbands and wives because these methods can be used to both attempt or avoid pregnancy.
This point of confusion was anticipated by P Paul when he wrote Humanae Vitae. You can find plenty of good discussion on precisely this issue here and other places.
http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...what-is-nfp/why-nfp-is-not-contraception.cfm/

The Church proposes NFP as part of a fruitful and well discerned marriage, not as a means of avoidance.
 
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If none of that is acceptable to yous,
By analogy, what you are saying is like this:

“The purpose of living my life is to die, because that’s what always happens in the act of living, obviously”.
This ignores the whole of life, ignores the meaning and transcendent purpose of the act of living and casts it in an entirely negative and minimalist light, because, “of course I know that we die and I insist that’s the whole reason for living life”.
 
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The Church proposes NFP as part of a fruitful and well discerned marriage, not as a means of avoidance.
This is from the USCCB website, the same one you keep quoting:

Avoiding Pregnancy

When wishing to avoid pregnancy, studies show that couples who follow their NFP method’s guidelines correctly, and all the time, achieve effectiveness rates of 97-99%.
You do know that the Church teaches that a couple may licitly use NFP to avoid ever having children, don’t you?
 
You do know that the Church teaches that a couple may licitly use NFP to avoid ever having children, don’t you?
As I understand it, it is at least doubtful that a valid marriage could be contracted if a couple, physically able to have children (i.e., not known to be sterile at the time of the marriage), would enter into marriage with the intention never to have at least one child. I do know that it is grounds for nullity.

Nonetheless, if they can in fact validly marry, they would have to use NFP (unless they are resolved to live in a Josephite, i.e., sexless, marriage). They could not licitly resolve to contracept permanently, nor could either or both spouses submit to sterilization in advance of the marriage.

I know the question “what kind of reason would they have to have?” has varied potential answers. The teaching of the Church, at least up to and including Humanae vitae, was that it had to be a “grave” or “serious” reason. Pius XII was the first to address the issue explicitly; as I said earlier, contraception (or, at least, modern scientific means) really did not exist prior to the 20th century. Some are now saying that it only has to be a “just” reason. I might be understanding some to say that “as long as they are using NFP, their reason is not to be questioned”. Whatever. (I think the time may have arrived for a papal encyclical on the licit use of NFP, but that is not my decision to make.) Grave danger to the life or health of the mother? Grave psychological issues? Genetic issues? Just don’t want a child, “not cut out for it”? (I would draw the line somewhere before “global warming” and “it is nobler and more self-giving to adopt instead of having your own children”, but that may just be me.)

I would then have to ask “OK, what if NFP fails? How will that affect you?”. Again, and this is just me, I have to think that it might be better not to get married in the first place. Avoid the risk entirely. “But we want to get married!” I understand, but the cold hard truth of life is that sometimes we want things that we cannot have, or should not have. If you go ahead and get married, there is the risk, however remote, that you will have a child you don’t want. What then?

If there arises a situation, once actually married (again, life or health of the mother, discovering a genetic issue, etc.), in which the couple cannot think of having a child, despite having intended to when they got married, then you have two choices, NFP or abstinence until after menopause. Again, the question, “OK, what if NFP fails? How will that affect you?”. Something to consider.

And I have mentioned this previously, but what of those instances where a couple finds themselves physically unable to have relations anymore? The husband gets injured. (I think the reader can fill in their own details.) Or the wife has some kind of similar injury. (Ditto.) Or one of the partners gets cancer and has to have something removed that renders sex impossible. The other partner has to abstain involuntarily. It happens. Unfortunate, tragic, but it happens.
 
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People track bodily signs and they have information. How they choose to act, or not act, on that information is really their own business.

Couples are free to have relations or abstain on any day of the cycle. They can not have the marital act or they can have the properly ordered act.

Contraception is something disorders the marital act.
 
As I understand it, it is at least doubtful that a valid marriage could be contracted if a couple, physically able to have children (i.e., not known to be sterile at the time of the marriage), would enter into marriage with the intention never to have at least one child. I do know that it is grounds for nullity.
I don’t think that is correct. I think they could avoid conceiving indefinitely if they had serious reasons for doing so. I may be wrong, but I think that is the teaching.
Nonetheless, if they can in fact validly marry, they would have to use NFP (unless they are resolved to live in a Josephite, i.e., sexless, marriage). They could not licitly resolve to contracept permanently, nor could either or both spouses submit to sterilization in advance of the marriage.
Yes, I believe this is what the Church teaches.
I know the question “what kind of reason would they have to have?” has varied potential answers. The teaching of the Church, at least up to and including Humanae vitae , was that it had to be a “grave” or “serious” reason.
The Church gives a longish, but vague, list that includes physical, social, economic or psychological reasons, as I recall.
I would then have to ask “OK, what if NFP fails? How will that affect you?”. Again, and this is just me, I have to think that it might be better not to get married in the first place. Avoid the risk entirely.
With respect, I think this undervalues both the personal and societal value of marriage, including the value of intimate relations between spouses. Marriage is not just for having children, and neither is sex.
 
I would then have to ask “OK, what if NFP fails? How will that affect you?”. Again, and this is just me, I have to think that it might be better not to get married in the first place. Avoid the risk entirely.
True, but it is well worth noting that some people are not called to marriage, even though they might want to get married. I read somewhere (sorry, I don’t have the source, you will just have to take my word for it) that in the medieval Catholic world, the ideal Catholic society was thought to consist of one-third of the people getting married, one-third going into the priestly or religious life, and one-third staying single in the secular world. That is not to say that this ever occurred anyplace, but that it was a sort of spiritual and social ideal.

Needless to say, if this scenario were realized, there would be no shortage of vocations.
 
It is a method of willfully timing sex so there is a reduced chance of pregnancy occurring. There is no other way around it. You can put your window dressing on it however you like. That is fine. But when you tell people it isn’t for the purpose of avoiding pregnancy, you are insulting them. You are implying you believe they lack the intelligence to know what you say is false.
It would be more accurate to say that NFP is a method of tracking information about a woman’s natural fertility. That information may be used (yes) to avoid pregnancy, or conversely, to increase chances of conceiving. It is also a valuable indicator of a woman’s health–I know women who are unmarried but who chart purely for the purpose of keeping a record for their health.

NFP in itself is just information. What a couple or individual woman chooses to do with that information varies. A couple might decide to use that information to avoid pregnancy for a few months, and then later use that same information to try to conceive.
 
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…avoid pregnancy…which means conception so contra=against and ception=conception. As a non Christian, how is NFP other than a natural method to avoid pregnancy.

What am I missing here? Thank you.
See below:
Couples are free to have relations or abstain on any day of the cycle. They can not have the marital act or they can have the properly ordered act.

Contraception is something disorders the marital act.
In other words, married couples are free to engage in sex on any given day, and they are also free to abstain on any given day. What they may not do is use something (condom, hormonal birth control, etc.) to purposely render the act sterile. To disrupt the marital act this way is contraception, and is what we would call disordered. Women are naturally only fertile for a few days per month–so a couple could choose not to have sex on those days.

This is not a perfect analogy, but maybe it will help a little: A person sees a brownie and wants to eat it but also doesn’t want to gain weight. The person could eat the brownie and then force himself to throw up - or he could just abstain from eating the brownie. The first option is a “disordered” way to avoid weight gain, roughly analogous to contraception. The second option (abstaining) is a properly ordered way to avoid weight gain, roughly analogous to NFP. Again, only a rough analogy, but perhaps it helps make the point a little more understandable. In short, NFP is a method of avoiding pregnancy (if a couple chooses to use the information that way)–but it is not contraception.
 
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What would be a better term for it then. It is still designed to avoid conception (for those trying to space their children or not have any more). I figured antiception doesn’t work. It seems that you dislike the contra part of the word though it it still applicable. If you want people to distinguish between NFP and contraception, you should find a term that clarifies the difference.☺️
 
As a non Christian, how is NFP other than a natural method to avoid pregnancy.
Not wrong, but it missed the half of the definition.
Natural family planning is a natural method of self-observation of the woman’s cycle. The ends may be to differ or favor a pregnancy.
 
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