Contraception

[Le_Cracquere]

If the situation is genuinely as the OP describes it, then it probably wouldn’t be loving or reasonable to rear a child in the present circumstances. But I can understand wanting to be obedient to the Church, too. If you go with NFP and conceive anyway, perhaps you should consider that the best and most loving course might be giving the child up for adoption. There are couples out there who could give a child everything needed–love, attention, a godly upbringing–but can’t conceive. You could end up being a tremendous blessing to child and adoptive parents alike.

 

[kamz]

Would a hysterectomy be an option? If medically speaking she shouldn’t have children becuase she is mentally unstable, would it be wrong to have a hysterectomy for medical reasons? I don’t know where the Church would stand, just was a thought I was thinking… I’m sure others know more about if this would be o.k.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Would a hysterectomy be an option? If medically speaking she shouldn’t have children becuase she is mentally unstable, would it be wrong to have a hysterectomy for medical reasons? I don’t know where the Church would stand, just was a thought I was thinking… I’m sure others know more about if this would be o.k.

From what I understand she could only have a hysterectomy if there is something medically wrong with her uterus and then the unintended “side effect” was sterility. The Church would not condone a hysterectomy for the sole purpose of avoiding children, nor as I understand it, would most doctors do such a thing, either. There must be underlying medical issues with the actual uterus.

Jennifer

 

[kamz]

From what I understand she could only have a hysterectomy if there is something medically wrong with her uterus and then the unintended “side effect” was sterility. The Church would not condone a hysterectomy for the sole purpose of avoiding children, nor as I understand it, would most doctors do such a thing, either. There must be underlying medical issues with the actual uterus.

Jennifer

Ok, that makes sense, thanks for answering so fast

 

[mark_a]

other younger members can give more authorotative advice and experience with NFP but as someone who has been married ever since ABC first became a reliable option, and has seen the results of dependence on contraception in destruction of marriages and families, as well as a member of a family with its share of mental health issues, all I can offer is this thought:
a large factor in your mental health is of course the health of your marriage, and the use of artificial contraception destroys the foundations of a healthy marriage, altering the intimate nature of the marriage relationship for the worse, and in itself because of this could very well be posing a threat to your well-being. Just this thought for you to consider as you grapple with this cross you are bearing. We will be praying for you of course.

Great post. Right on target.

 

[HailMary]

To HailMary: I must admit, I was confused when I read your first post. I guess maybe I read it wrong? I thought you were saying that she was not contracepting, since to contracept it behooves a mental assent to do so. I thought this meant that since she was suffering from mental illness, she was not making a full consent to contracept? Not trying to challenge you here or anything, just saying I don’t understand what you meant either. Thanks.

No, my post was not clear.
Here are my points:

• It is possible that you can contracept with NFP because the motive counts
• Having too many or too little children (or any) can be a sin (ie: hiding your lust through your children, contraception, not capable of being a mother)

When the OP said

We do not want any children

My immediate reaction was that this is a contraceptive mentality even if she is using NFP (and in general it is), but since it appears she is not capable of taking care of another life, she would not be contracepting. Thats what I meant.

As far as what she actually said, its pretty obvious what the situation is, I just wanted to make my point that I stated above, namely that, for example, if a Mom is going to die if she has a baby, and decides to live, she didn’t commit an abortion since an abortion requires an act of a will to destroy the life in your baby. Whereas, the intent was to save the mother’s life and during the process, the baby died. Big difference for the MOTHER who, if she isn’t guided and talked to correctly, will have the guilt of “having committed an abortion” even though she did a completely legitimate action.

So same thing for a person who** legitimately **can’t raise children because of physical problems(or mental): they are not contracepting if they use NFP their whole life and never have children. But the situation changes when they, even thou can’t have children because of mental illness, decide to use the pill since this is an illegitimate method. At least, this is how I understand it to be.

God Bless

 

[1ke]

The motive to not have children is separate from the method used to avoid them.

The motive may be right or wrong regardless of the method.

NFP can **never **be contraceptive. NFP is not an act, it’s knowledge. If a couple chooses to abstain from relations, that in itself is not sinful and not contraceptive. If a couple chooses to have intercourse, they are not negating the procreative element. There is no contraception either way.

Contraception is the act of engaging in intercourse while simultaneously rendering it infertile. Contraception is ALWAYS a wrong action no matter the motive.

 

[HailMary]

NFP can **never **be contraceptive. NFP is not an act, it’s knowledge.

Sorry, but you are wrong. We could simply be disagreeing on semantics but I don’t think that is the case right now. NFP can be abused, and made into a contraceptive.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Sorry, but you are wrong. We could simply be disagreeing on semantics but I don’t think that is the case right now. NFP can be abused, and made into a contraceptive.

Here is a link to the definition of contraception:

omsoul.com/pamphlet153.Why-Is-Contraception-Immoral.html

“Contraception is the choice by any means to impede the procreative potential of a given act of intercourse. In other words, the contracepting couple chooses to engage in intercourse, and, foreseeing that their act may result in a new life, they *intentionally *and *willfully *suppress their fertility”

So the use of NFP, while it may be done with a selfish motive, cannot in and of itself be contraceptive. Contraception applies to each individual sex act, not a mindset.

---

Malia

 

[1ke]

Sorry, but you are wrong. We could simply be disagreeing on semantics but I don’t think that is the case right now. NFP can be abused, and made into a contraceptive.

Not true. A contraceptive is used to sterilize an act of intercourse.

NFP does not do this.

 

[HailMary]

Not true. A contraceptive is used to sterilize an act of intercourse.

NFP does not do this.

This definition is too restrictive and removes the spiritual part of being open to life. Being open to life does not rely soley on not using artificial contraception: you have to be use your wife, reason and consult with the Giver of Life if now is a good time. Anyhow if you don’t agree with whatever I have said, will you tell me if its possible to live a contraceptive lifestyle by using NFP? People have no problem using it because its much healthier than the pill (no adverse side effects).

 

[1ke]

This definition is too restrictive and removes the spiritual part of being open to life.

It is, however, the way **the Church **defines an act of contraception and the way the Church defines “open to life”.

Any act of intercourse that is not altered is open to life. A person using NFP does not alter any act of intercourse. Therefore, they do not contracept.

Being open to life does not rely soley on not using artificial contraception:

An act of intercourse is open to life or it isn’t.

A person’s attitude towards having children is distinct from the act of intercourse and whether or not it is open to life.

you have to be use your wife, reason and consult with the Giver of Life if now is a good time.

I’m not sure exactly whta you are saying here, but if I understand it properly you are stating that a couple must use a discernment process to determine if they have a just reason to avoid or postpone a pregnancy. Yes, this is true, and it is stated this way in the Catechism and Humanae Vitae.

Anyhow if you don’t agree with whatever I have said, will you tell me if its possible to live a contraceptive lifestyle by using NFP?

No. There’s no such thing as a “contraceptive lifestyle”. There is such a thing as a contraceptive act.

If a couple uses the knowledge of NFP to avoid children – and has no just reason to do so-- they are not committing the sin of contraception. They are committing a different, distinct sin. That sin is a sin against justice and charity.

People have no problem using it because its much healthier than the pill (no adverse side effects).

This is not relevant. I don’t follow your point here.

I agree with you that people can avoid children for unjust reasons. I disagree that doing so is contraception.

 

[HailMary]

I agree with you that people can avoid children for unjust reasons. I disagree that doing so is contraception.

Thank you, so it was semantics. You can call it a sin against justice and charity (which indeed it is) and I can call it contraception: the point it, it is a sin and a grave one if they contracepted (or your equivalent word to describe avoding pregnancies unjustly) to do so.

God Bless

 

[1ke]

Thank you, so it was semantics. You can call it a sin against justice and charity (which indeed it is) and I can call it contraception: the point it, it is a sin and a grave one if they contracepted (or your equivalent word to describe avoding pregnancies unjustly) to do so.

God Bless

No, it’s not just semantics. It’s an important distinction, and one that should never be glossed over.

I am sorry that you cannot see this important distinction. It is quite an injustice to NFP and to church teaching to say NFP is contraception. I hope you will, for the sake of those who can be confused by your statements, find another way to say this.

 

[HailMary]

It is quite an injustice to NFP and to church teaching to say NFP is contraception.

I never said nor implied that NFP IS contraception. There is such thing as a contraceptive lifestyle, attitude, and mentality and there are plenty of Catholics out there to prove it that are using NFP. Just because they hide under the NFP method doesn’t mean that are not capable of contracepting. And likewise

I hope you will, for the sake of those who can be confused by your statements

will not to try get contracepting catholics off the hook by thinking they are doing something good (by abusing NFP for selfish reasons) when in fact they are deceiving themselves.

 

[HailMary]

Here is an article that illustrates what I’m trying to describe (of course the father does a much better job)

hli.org/commentaries_fr_tom_humanae_vitae_nfp_vs_contraception.html

The morality of the act has to take into account the intention as well as the method. The immoral intention of artificial contraception is birth prevention while the moral intention of Natural Family Planning is birth avoidance using the natural cycles of fertility. With the one, couples take “control” of the sexual function and nullify or sterilize it. Hence the name birth “control.” It turns the divine command “Be fruitful and multiply” right on its head. In the other, the couple cooperates with the natural system consisting of both fertile and infertile periods.** If however a couple were to use NFP without grave reason for avoiding pregnancy then their intention would be contraceptive** by definition and therefore also gravely immoral. This is a distinction that even many teachers of NFP do not clarify for couples when they teach it, but it is the clear teaching of the church that couples must not use NFP for “natural” contraception.

We can explain it another way. It all comes down to the “mentality” with which one uses the gift of human sexuality. If couples are masters and controllers of the sexual function they will be engaging in immoral sex because they will be preventing births with their own selfish designs in mind. However, if they are stewards of God’s gift of sexuality in marriage, they cooperate with the Lord and become channels of His life to the world

• Fr. Thomas J. Euteneuer

God Bless

 

[curious35]

If there is any room for shades of gray with all of you, I come down on the side of peace within the marriage and the best thing for children. This young wife should get her tubes tied or a Norplant going and praise God that there will be one less child uncared for or in danger. You can take all your good take-care-of-babes energy and tend young ones at church functions. Compared to the other choices, and the other things being done by those like you, Jesus will understand. I hope your medical situation improves and the doctors find better treatment regimes.

Or, you could believe like Tom Cruise and just wish it all away!

Dona nobis pace

 

[1ke]

If there is any room for shades of gray with all of you,

No, there is no room for shades of gray. Or, as the Scriptures tell us-- let your yes mean yes and your no mean no.

I come down on the side of peace within the marriage and the best thing for children.

Christ told us something different when he told us that there would be strife in the house. Getting along, if it means sinning, is not what Christ commanded.

This young wife should get her tubes tied or a Norplant going and praise God that there will be one less child uncared for or in danger.

Are you a Catholic? Contraception and sterilization are mortal sins that can have eternal consequences. Advising someone to commit a mortal sin can also be mortally sinful-- so please refrain from telling people it’s OK to commit such grave acts.

Compared to the other choices, and the other things being done by those like you, Jesus will understand.

Um, no, that’s not how judgment day will work.

 

[HailMary]

Jesus will understand.

This is what we call moral relativism and it not Christian. What is a sin in 450 AD is a sin in 2007 AD. Children are ALWAYS a blessing and thats why Christ said

Revelation 2:22-23

So I will cast her on a sickbed and plunge those who commit adultery with her into intense suffering unless they repent of her works. I will also put her children to death. Thus shall all the churches come to know that I am the searcher of hearts and minds and that I will give each of you what your works deserve.< btw, it is not by faith alone my fellow Christians! >

and contraception is always a sin.

Genesis 38:9-10

Onan, however, knew that the descendants would not be counted as his; so whenever he had relations with his brother’s widow, he wasted his seed on the ground, to avoid contributing offspring for his brother. What he did greatly offended the LORD, and the LORD took his life too.

God Bless

 

[vluvski]

KellyK,
What a trial this must be for you! I just want to offer that my parents have been successfully avoiding for 12 years because of my mother’s health.
The other posters have offered some great advice. I use CCL STM (Couple to Couple League Sympto-Thermal Method) and am overall very happy with it despite my inconsistent cycles.

My only additional observation is that I personally would not be one iota interested in piling artificial hormones, especially on top of mental and physical illness. ABC (artificial birth control) and oral contraceptives are chock-full of stuff that isn’t supposed to be in your system- that’s why they “work.”

I understand that Creighton can often help women diagnose other problems. Would you be comfortable going back for additional instruction to see if someone, somewhere, can’t get a better diagnosis for your general and specific non-fertility illnesses? Of course there are no guarantees, but maybe, just maybe, God will grace you through their expertise with some relief if you take the leap of faith and give NFP another try.