Contraceptive food

[CatofAlexandria]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

 

[mommamaree]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

Budgie -
I think you need to do a bit more research on historical records of witches and how that differs from the modern religions of Wicca and Satanism (which are not related to each other in any way, a Wiccan is not a Satanist). You seem very paranoid about some of the things that you have read, but I have tried with earlier posts to clarify some of your misconceptions. Alexander Pope said ‘a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’, meaning a little knowledge can make people feel like they are more of an expert than they are and can lead them to act in ways they should not.
There is a huge difference in the amount used of culinary herbs versus herbal remedies. Furthermore, herbal contraceptive or abortive concoctions were not taken as the whole fresh or dried herb, but rather very powerful decoctions or poultices would be prepared. The pinch of rosemary and dash of thyme will have absolutely no effect upon a pregnant woman or her baby, whereas a gallon of potent extracts of these herbs would likely do great harm. These substances also do not build up over time in one’s body, so daily use of herbs for cooking or even herbal health supplements will not harm you. If you still feel so worried about use of herbs, then just go visit a registered herbalist. They are not supernatural witches or Satanists or anything sinister, but rather people who have studied and apprenticed to be able to treat maladies and restore health through the use of herbs.
Also, in Genesis, God makes it clear that herbs are for human consumption. In fact, throughout the OT, the use of herbs as medicine and as food is mentioned.
I hope this will put your mind at ease.

 

[Mattapoisett64]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

I have some Twinkies that I believe are pre-Christian – and they’re still fresh !!

 

[Jennifer_J]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

Maybe think of it this way, contracpetive medicine (the pill) are hormones your body naturally makes. There is nothing wrong with those hormones, in and of themselves, infact hormones are very important to the functioning of our body. However, the pill alters the body due to the dosage–too much. The same with herbs/spices. Too much can cause harm, but the amount in cooking will not cause health problems. Nothing you flavor your food with is going to be contraceptive nor abortive.

I really can’t believe this is even a thread…

 

[kenofken]

As the token Wiccan on the forum, or at least this thread, I’ll give you some insider’s insight. “Crone” is not a position one is appointed to, nor does it necessarily imply any particular ability as a sage, seer or herbalist. It is a ritual honoring the coming of a certain age, a life passage, just as we do with young women and men, the newborns and those who have died. More than a few crones are crafty with herbs, as it happens, but I doubt very much that any of them (or any modern herbalists) are using herbal abortifiacients. To do so would require herbs and /or dosages which would put the patient’s life at risk. Moreover, there is simply no need to resort to dodgy ancient recipes. You can get abortion-inducing medication quite easily these days, ones that will work much more reliably and safely, (or at least more predictably). Nor do I think abortions are especially prevalent among our people. Most that I know have pretty good sized broods of kids, and the teens and 20-somethings tend to be highly educated and knowledgable about birth control.

 

[Zooey]

Actually, the herbs in the S&G classic are supposed to be a love potion. Note emphasis on “supposed to be”.
Clapping is supposed to keep fairies from dying, but I still make it a point to applaud when in attendance at, say, a concert or the ballet.

Knocking on wood is supposed to calm the nerves of the Evil Forest Spirits. Throwing salt over your shoulder is** supposed** to keep you from dying. Breaking a mirror is supposed to give you seven years bad luck. Thirteen at dinner is supposed to mean that one of you will die within days, nay, hours.
And, my personal favorite: when building a new house, you are supposed to design it so a gunshot through the front door will pass straight through & out the back, so that the Evil Spirits (who may or may not come from the Forest) will not wreak havoc trying to find their way out…
This is the 21st Century, not the 14th, and I have adopted ignoring all the above notions, right along with adopting electric lights and the flush toilet.
But hey! That’s just me.

BTW, since you are British, could you answer an unrelated question for me? It occurred to me to ask because of your screen name, Budgie. What in the world is a budgerigar? I might have spelled it incorrectly, sorry. But it is not in any dictionary that I have looked in and it is such an odd word that I have never heard before. Thanks in advance if you are able to answer my silly question!

A budgerigar is a parakeet.

 

[tweetymom]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

I really am having a hard time you even started this thread.

 

[Jermosh]

People were falsely accused of witchcraft for a lot of reasons… People also believed, some very smart ones in fact, that you could make Gold (alchemy).

As it’s obvious that those spices didn’t work as aborficients then I would just ignore this and enjoy whatever spices you like.

God gave us this earth, I’m quite sure spices and flavoring are not of the devil.

Joe

Its sort of ironic that once they actually finally dropped alchemy as a myth, they discovered radioactive sciences and was able to make gold.

 

[shannyk]

one would think that if there was such a high risk of miscarriage from these herbs there would be some kind of medical warning to pregnant women about them?

I love herbs and grow my own. I ate them superfluously throughout my pregnancies. My children live to tell the tale.

Yes it’s true, there are herb OILS and EXTRACTS that one should avoid when pregnant. Those are far more concentrated than the herbs themselves which pose no danger for pregnant mom’s.

 

[Catholic90]

I love to eat spices in my food - sage, basil, oregano, cilantro, nutmeg, chives, cumin, and tons of garlic - I grow some of my own herbs in the summer.

I ate lots of spiced food during my 3 pregnancies…all children have survived to teenage-hood! They all like spiced food as well!

Is this seriously a thread?!? (And am I really participating in this nonsense?!? - of course it IS nearly 1 am and I have been up since 5:30 am…) .

Good night.

 

[budgie2]

one would think that if there was such a high risk of miscarriage from these herbs there would be some kind of medical warning to pregnant women about them?

I love herbs and grow my own. I ate them superfluously throughout my pregnancies. My children live to tell the tale.

Yes it’s true, there are herb OILS and EXTRACTS that one should avoid when pregnant. Those are far more concentrated than the herbs themselves which pose no danger for pregnant mom’s.

Sorry to contradict you. I know for a fact that a lot of herbs and spices have been used as abortifacients in the past but you need to eat a lot and they’re not as reliable as modern day drugs. John Riddle’s book tells you everything you need. Out of principle I won’t put them in my food now and have thrown them out. They’re also in processed food and some people eat more than others.

If you’re interested here’s a pagan forum which tells you information about herbal abortions:
everythingunderthemoon.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6373&sid=bc2597b28847a741366bbe9a4fd62

 

[sanctamaria17]

Well, I guess every Italian or Italian descended person is sinning horribly! Rosemary flavored Tuscan flatbread = a crushing blow to the pro-life movement! Sanctamaria17’s ancestors might as well be in Dante’s ninth circle! That’ll teach them not to mess with herbs, those druggies. :tsktsk: Pizza Margherita = a straight path to the Devil himself. And don’t get me started on Pasta Puttanesca (actually, that second word is a nasty word for women, giving people the impression that the dish started in the brothels of Naples, the city of origin).

Really?

This is kind of reminding me of Monty Python’s “Spanish Inquisition” sketch: “All right, bring out…THE SOFT CUSHIONS!” “Oh no! Not the COMFY CHAIR!!!”

I highly doubt that my “Italian appetite” (implying quantity as well as ingredients) is going to kill babies. I think I should be more worried on how the chemicals in the water supply are going to impact any future children I have…

 

[Catholic90]

Out of principle I won’t put them in my food now and have thrown them out. They’re also in processed food and some people eat more than others.

Hmm, well, please do not invite me over for dinner. I HATE bland food.

(Black helicopters anyone?!?)

Takes all kinds, I guess. At least it keeps the threads amusing!

 

[shannyk]

Sorry to contradict you. I know for a fact that a lot of herbs and spices have been used as abortifacients in the past but you need to eat a lot and they’re not as reliable as modern day drugs. John Riddle’s book tells you everything you need. Out of principle I won’t put them in my food now and have thrown them out. They’re also in processed food and some people eat more than others.

If you’re interested here’s a pagan forum which tells you information about herbal abortions:
everythingunderthemoon.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6373&sid=bc2597b28847a741366bbe9a4fd62

You’ve not contradicted me at all. The amounts one would normally use in food preparation are not anywhere near significant enough to cause a miscarriage.

If you don’t wish to cook with herbs that is your prerogative, but I can’t understand when the ‘principle’ is that is motivating your decision. Cooking with herbs and consuming herbs in a large amounts to cause an abortion are as different as night and day. You can’t compare them.

Pregnant women all over the world eat herbs every day. There is no danger.

A person can also have a miscarriage due to over consumption of water. I’d hardly say that drinking water during pregnancy is unsafe.

 

[Catholic90]

You’ve not contradicted me at all. The amounts one would normally use in food preparation are not anywhere near significant enough to cause a miscarriage.

If you don’t wish to cook with herbs that is your prerogative, but I can’t understand when the ‘principle’ is that is motivating your decision. Cooking with herbs and consuming herbs in a large amounts to cause an abortion are as different as night and day. You can’t compare them.

Pregnant women all over the world eat herbs every day. There is no danger.

A person can also have a miscarriage due to over consumption of water. I’d hardly say that drinking water during pregnancy is unsafe.

Spot on!

Dihydrogen monoxide kills more people every day than spices! Do people think that chemical should be limited or eliminated?! I can guarantee that more people die from dihydrogen monoxide inhalation in a year than die from eating spiced food!

 

[CatofAlexandria]

I have been doing some research on the history of contraception and abortion for the Church

Not to call you out, OP, but these are some quotes of yours from other threads:

If the period of abstinence is causing problems and you want to prevent conception then Fertility Awareness Method which is using barrier methods during a couple’s fertile time is quite ethical, and better than some Catholics.

It is widely known in the Church that non-spermicidal barrier methods (condom, diaphragm and cervical cap) are the second best to full blown NFP and some couples use barrier methods during their fertile periods only. Barrier methods respect the natural fertility cycle of ovulation and production of sperm and don’t cause permanent infertility.

The use of barrier methods are not in accordance with Church teaching. (See Humanae Vitae: vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html). Yet, you have advised others to use barrier methods while condemning the use of… rosemary in cooking? I find it difficult to believe your research and logic, when this is your understanding of contraception.

 

[Zooey]

Well, I guess every Italian or Italian descended person is sinning horribly! Rosemary flavored Tuscan flatbread = a crushing blow to the pro-life movement! Sanctamaria17’s ancestors might as well be in Dante’s ninth circle! That’ll teach them not to mess with herbs, those druggies. :tsktsk: Pizza Margherita = a straight path to the Devil himself. And don’t get me started on Pasta Puttanesca (actually, that second word is a nasty word for women, giving people the impression that the dish started in the brothels of Naples, the city of origin).

You mean that there still** is** a population of Italian people after all that pasta sauce? If OP were to be believed, Italians ceased to exist in…Let me figure: OK, that’s it: The last Italian person was apparently born in 1912 B.C.

Really?

This is kind of reminding me of Monty Python’s “Spanish Inquisition” sketch: “All right, bring out…THE SOFT CUSHIONS!” “Oh no! Not the COMFY CHAIR!!!”

I highly doubt that my “Italian appetite” (implying quantity as well as ingredients) is going to kill babies. I think I should be more worried on how the chemicals in the water supply are going to impact any future children I have…

 

[mommamaree]

I can’t figure out if the OP is serious or a troll? If the OP is being sincere, I think there is probably nothing we can do to make her see reason. She has ‘contradicted’ (in her opinion at least) every piece of evidence or reality we have offered. Yet she has the audacity to advise people on a Catholic forum to begin using barrier methods. I smell a troll…

On the other hand, if the OP is sincere, maybe she should also stop drinking water and milk. The water supplies all over the Western world have been found to be laced with hormones from birth control pills, and milk is meant for baby cows and so has growth hormones in it. Also, mad cow disease is scary so no red meat. And salad greens are often found to be contaminated with E. coli, as are berries. Sprouts of all kinds should be avoided for similar reasons, but maybe she already considers those to be herbs. Eggs are often contaminated on their shells with salmonella, as is chicken flesh, so those are out. No veined or soft cheeses because those are made with bacteria, but they are made from milk anyway so we already nixed those. No lunchmeat of any kind because they are sometimes contaminated with bacteria. Tofu and other soy products have anti-nutrients in them, so none of that. So let’s see, what are we left with…? How bout a nice apple, peeled of course to removed pesticide residue, with a bowl of steamed rice (steamed in bottle spring water)? Now that sounds like a delicious tasty meal you would never get bored with!

 

[Consecrated]

The thing is that we don’t know where our food has come from. We could have inherited witch recipes and pagan recipes which are pre-Christian. Just because it’s acceptable for a non-Christian to put contraception in their food doesn’t mean it’s acceptable for me.

Sorry to contradict you. I know for a fact that a lot of herbs and spices have been used as abortifacients in the past but you need to eat a lot and they’re not as reliable as modern day drugs. John Riddle’s book tells you everything you need. Out of principle I won’t put them in my food now and have thrown them out. They’re also in processed food and some people eat more than others.

If you’re interested here’s a pagan forum which tells you information about herbal abortions:
everythingunderthemoon.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6373&sid=bc2597b28847a741366bbe9a4fd62

Since you have had ample responses on how eating herbs as seasonings is not at all physically dangerous, I won’t repeat that.

However, hon, it seems that you regard this as more of a moral issue? If so, you need to get yourself to a good ordained spiritual director, b/c it seems to me you are suffering from a crippling case of scruples. You’re looking at this herbal dilemma from completely the wrong angle. We believe as Christians that God made the world and all in it (plants, animals, etc), and then he declared it GOOD. When you say that on principle you will now not eat plants which God created GOOD because at some point in history evil minded people have misused these plants, that’s like saying evil can overcome GOOD. Which we know and believe and profess with every Creed we pray to be completely false. Please, for your own sake and the peace of your soul, get some spiritual help. Because if this is how you view something so basic as food, I can only imagine how terrifying the rest of your life might look to you.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well, I guess every Italian or Italian descended person is sinning horribly! Rosemary flavored Tuscan flatbread = a crushing blow to the pro-life movement! Sanctamaria17’s ancestors might as well be in Dante’s ninth circle! That’ll teach them not to mess with herbs, those druggies. :tsktsk: Pizza Margherita = a straight path to the Devil himself. And don’t get me started on Pasta Puttanesca (actually, that second word is a nasty word for women, giving people the impression that the dish started in the brothels of Naples, the city of origin).

Really?

This is kind of reminding me of Monty Python’s “Spanish Inquisition” sketch: “All right, bring out…THE SOFT CUSHIONS!” “Oh no! Not the COMFY CHAIR!!!”

I highly doubt that my “Italian appetite” (implying quantity as well as ingredients) is going to kill babies. I think I should be more worried on how the chemicals in the water supply are going to impact any future children I have…

Pasta Puttanesca!!! sanctamaria17 :tsktsk: But if you prepare it with Capellini D’angelo…might make it an improvement. But maybe not…I suggest then closing your eyes when you see that on the menu…: