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sainthumbert
Guest
Does the belief that contraceptives used by married couples is not sinful constitute an obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith?
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underacloud
Guest
The Church has taught very clearly and unequivocally on this matter, so it is not something a faithful Catholic can hold any doubts over. The Church has also gone to some lengths to dispel the notion that primacy of conscience can over-ride the teaching.
That said, I do not think the Church has ever gone as far as to call someone who believes in or practices contraception to be a heretic or latae sententiae excommunicated. I suppose if she did, there would be few of us left.
That said, I do not think the Church has ever gone as far as to call someone who believes in or practices contraception to be a heretic or latae sententiae excommunicated. I suppose if she did, there would be few of us left.
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DeMontfort2
Guest
yes it does.Does the belief that contraceptives used by married couples is not sinful constitute an obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith?
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robwar
Guest
Read Humanae Vitae. The Catholic Church is very clear. It is a grave matter for even mariied couples. There is evidence it can hurt the bond of marriage because you and your spouse are not truly giving to each other which includes fertility.Does the belief that contraceptives used by married couples is not sinful constitute an obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith?
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Just_Lurking
Guest
Theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this.
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Bayoubeefmaster
Guest
Why would you want to prevent pregnancy anyway? Just don’t make sense to me. How is a child that evil and bad for a person.
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Windmill
Guest
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underacloud
Guest
About what exactly?Theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this.
Whether contraception is a sin
or
Whether it is heresy to believe that it isn’t a sin.
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sainthumbert
Guest
I don’t want to prevent pregnancy. You are reading things into my question that aren’t there. I need to know if the Church’s teaching on contraceptives is a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith. That is, might a person’s beliefs regarding contraceptives cause them to be a heretic and thereby be excommunicated and thereby be outside of the Church?Why would you want to prevent pregnancy anyway? Just don’t make sense to me. How is a child that evil and bad for a person.
Just Lurking wrote that theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this. Just Lurking, can you point me to arguments in favor of labeling these types as heretics?
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robwar
Guest
not the Catholic theologians that are faithful to the Church.Theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this.
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robwar
Guest
that was a comment made by someone who is not Catholic.I don’t want to prevent pregnancy. You are reading things into my question that aren’t there. I need to know if the Church’s teaching on contraceptives is a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith. That is, might a person’s beliefs regarding contraceptives cause them to be a heretic and thereby be excommunicated and thereby be outside of the Church?
Just Lurking wrote that theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this. Just Lurking, can you point me to arguments in favor of labeling these types as heretics?
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sainthumbert
Guest
That is directed at me? What are you saying?that was a comment made by someone who is not Catholic.
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neophyte
Guest
Without a doubt it is the denial of a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith.Does the belief that contraceptives used by married couples is not sinful constitute an obstinate post-baptismal denial of a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith?
It’s post-baptismal only if the person has been baptized.
I’m not capable of judging the subjective state of the soul of the person in question, therefore I can’t comment on the obstinate part.
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Just_Lurking
Guest
About whether it is heresy to believe that it isn’t a sin. See here and work your way backwards through the footnotes and references to read the arguments.About what exactly?
Whether contraception is a sin
or
Whether it is heresy to believe that it isn’t a sin.
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Francie3
Guest
The fifth commandment, “thou shalt not kill”
You do know that many forms of contraception actually cause abortions, ie, kill the child?
“A lot of people don’t know that quite a few artificial contraceptives are also abortificients. That means they do not always work at preventing conception, which is the beginning of human growth. In other words, when the sperm meets the egg, the egg then starts it’s growth cycle. An example of an abortificient is an IUD contraceptive device, which prevents the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the woman’s uterus, and in no way prevents conception! Another example is “the pill”, which can prevent conception, but conception can still take place sometimes, as it is not 100 percent effective at preventing that, and this also prevents the implantation of the fertilized egg, as it hardens the walls of the uterus. The “morning after” pill, which I have seen locally in the paper described as not causing an abortion, is also an abortificient. Conception can take place within 15 minutes after intercourse, so of course any pill taken after sex, cannot prevent what has already occurred, especially the morning after, and the “the morning after pill” is recommended for use up to 2 to 3 days after sex. There are other contraceptives that are abortificient besides these that I listed.” greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004HB0
"The HHS mandate allows women free access to all FDA-approved forms of contraception. This includes the IUDs (intrauterine devices), the drug Plan B (levonorgestrel) and a new drug called Ella (ulipristal acetate), which came on the market in 2010. Church officials and others have argued that because these three contraceptives are abortifacients, the government is forcing them to participate in the distribution of devices and drugs that cause abortion.
The reality is that there is overwhelming scientific evidence that the IUD and Plan B work only as contraceptives. " ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/what-abortifacient-and-what-it-isnt
You do know that many forms of contraception actually cause abortions, ie, kill the child?
“A lot of people don’t know that quite a few artificial contraceptives are also abortificients. That means they do not always work at preventing conception, which is the beginning of human growth. In other words, when the sperm meets the egg, the egg then starts it’s growth cycle. An example of an abortificient is an IUD contraceptive device, which prevents the fertilized egg from attaching itself to the woman’s uterus, and in no way prevents conception! Another example is “the pill”, which can prevent conception, but conception can still take place sometimes, as it is not 100 percent effective at preventing that, and this also prevents the implantation of the fertilized egg, as it hardens the walls of the uterus. The “morning after” pill, which I have seen locally in the paper described as not causing an abortion, is also an abortificient. Conception can take place within 15 minutes after intercourse, so of course any pill taken after sex, cannot prevent what has already occurred, especially the morning after, and the “the morning after pill” is recommended for use up to 2 to 3 days after sex. There are other contraceptives that are abortificient besides these that I listed.” greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=004HB0
"The HHS mandate allows women free access to all FDA-approved forms of contraception. This includes the IUDs (intrauterine devices), the drug Plan B (levonorgestrel) and a new drug called Ella (ulipristal acetate), which came on the market in 2010. Church officials and others have argued that because these three contraceptives are abortifacients, the government is forcing them to participate in the distribution of devices and drugs that cause abortion.
The reality is that there is overwhelming scientific evidence that the IUD and Plan B work only as contraceptives. " ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/what-abortifacient-and-what-it-isnt
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Samuel63
Guest
Oral contraceptives result in an early term abortion a significant amount of the time. This practice is clearly way out of line.
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R_C
Guest
No, theologians who follow the Sacred Tradition have no disagreement whatsoever, because they know what life is.Theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this.
Those who follow heretic doctrines may have disagreement on this and plenty of other issues, and it’s no surprise.
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Just_Lurking
Guest
See here.Just Lurking wrote that theologians are in legitimate disagreement about this. Just Lurking, can you point me to arguments in favor of labeling these types as heretics?
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ValPal
Guest
FWIW, it is not significant. The chances are not only small, but this rate is similar to, but slightly less than, the rate of miscarriage due to practicing NFP (i.e., restricting sex to the infertile period).Oral contraceptives result in an early term abortion a significant amount of the time. This practice is clearly way out of line.
That information comes straight from a Catholic source that was posted here on the forum. That was not the purpose of the study, but that is what the data in the study showed.
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R_C
Guest
YES.I don’t want to prevent pregnancy. You are reading things into my question that aren’t there. I need to know if the Church’s teaching on contraceptives is a truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith.
Contraception is intrinsically evil.
This is the way I see it: it breaks the Sacrament of Matrimony into a lustful union, and desecrates what is most sacred.
From Humanae Vitae:
From Familiaris Consortio:Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.
Check also the statement on the so-called “morning-after” pill by the Pontifical Academy for Life.When couples, by means of recourse to contraception, separate these two meanings that God the Creator has inscribed in the being of man and woman and in the dynamism of their sexual communion, they act as “arbiters” of the divine plan and they “manipulate” and degrade human sexuality-and with it themselves and their married partner-by altering its value of “total” self-giving. Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality.
This writing from the Pontifical Council for the Family provides additional information.
Contraception, directly opposed to the transmission of life, betrays and falsifies the self-sacrificing love proper to marriage, “altering its value of total self-giving” and contradicting God’s design of love, in which it has been granted to married couples to participate.
The teaching is adamant. Anyone who teaches otherwise teaches heresy.The Church has always taught the intrinsic evil of contraception, that is, of every marital act intentionally rendered unfruitful. This teaching is to be held as definitive and irreformable. Contraception is gravely opposed to marital chastity; it is contrary to the good of the transmission of life (the procreative aspect of matrimony), and to the reciprocal self-giving of the spouses (the unitive aspect of matrimony); it harms true love and denies the sovereign role of God in the transmission of human life.
As for those who argue whether this teaching is sealed by infallibility (see the last quote above), I would like to quote our Profession of Faith (underscore mine):
…]
Moreover, I adhere with religious submission of will and intellect to the teachings which either the Roman Pontiff or the College of Bishops enunciate when they exercise their authentic Magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim these teachings by a definitive act.
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