Contradict in the Qur'an

[Eucharisted]

Picked what up? The story you’re quoting appears in the Qur’an like 5 times or more, sometimes slightly different. I’m not sure what point you’re making. It never occurred to me to ask how near. Like Ralph mentioned above, going near with intention as opposed to idly walking around seems almost implied.

How different are they?

 

[tobinatorstark]

How different are they?

My point exactly. She can’t prove anything about the Qur’an with the Qur’an, but we can’t refute the Qur’an with the Bible because she doesn’t believe in the Bible or that it is of any legit source. The same can be said of us not accepting the Qur’an as a legit source

 

[ralphinal]

This is how one Islamic scholar explains the “we” in the Koran:

The information I posted came from the following internet search. I hope it helps this debate/thread:

thelastingmiracle.com/eng/article.aspx?id=105&cat=14

Best Regards and May God Bless Us, Everyone!
Pam
New York

Thanks.

Now, the question is WHY is there a change in number?

 

[Sister_Amy]

How different are they?

Not very. They only differ as to which part of the story is being emphasized. For example, one passage emphasizes the arrogance of Shaytaan to say that he is better than Adam, and that passage occurs in a chapter about the Children of Israel, while the Jews were rejecting Muhammad as a prophet because he was not Jewish. The same passage begins identically in the following chapter, however, but instead emphasizes the fact that Shaytaan (Iblees) was not an angel, refuting the Christian notion that he was a fallen angel by declaring him to be a jinn, instead. (These are chapters 17 and 18, the passage(s) appear about midway through.) Sometimes the passage might focus on the sin of Adam and his wife, and some on their repentance.

So it’s only what aspect of the story is being emphasized that makes it different.

 

[Sister_Amy]

My point exactly. She can’t prove anything about the Qur’an with the Qur’an, but we can’t refute the Qur’an with the Bible because she doesn’t believe in the Bible or that it is of any legit source. The same can be said of us not accepting the Qur’an as a legit source

Sorry, but I don’t see what this had to do with Eucharisted’s question…?

 

[swariffin]

When God commands you to bow, you bow. You don’t ask, “Why?” But by following God’s command, you are obeying God, and therefore worshipping God.

When Allah order you to pray to a direction where you know that Allah is not there, you are certainly do not ask? How can you be worshipping God if you face away from God when praying.

 

[swariffin]

SO HOW CAN YOU BE SURE there was a garden of Eden was it just a myth, that story surfaced around the time of King Solomon a man with 700 wives, this man would not have had time to speak with God. if his wives were to be satisfied, making sex a sin, protected Solomon from those who might steal his wives,

In the ancient way of kingdom to have a good relation to another, is to arrange marriage between the family/daughter of one king to a king or the family of the king of the other kingdom. Whether or not the wife was being consummated was another issue. This is valid in Indonesian ancient kingdoms (including after the spread of Islam) and also the practice in ancient China.

 

[IHSpetros]

It does not matter. I was using an example of a time when there was no royal we as it is understood.

I could just as well have said in the court of the emperor of Japan.

Royal we, as a word usage, did not exist when the ruler was seen as a god./QUOTE

The hebrew language, as well as the arabic language use two forms of the plural: plural of number and plural of respect.

In the case of the quran, when Allah mentions “we” it is a plural of respect. This is also the case in the Bible, for example in Genesis 1:1 where it says “when God created” the word for “god” is ELOHIM which is the plural form. The word for god in the singular form would be “Eloah.”

Thus in Genesis 1:1 it would actually have to read as “when GODS created.” However, the jews know that this is a plural of RESPECT and not a plural of NUMBERS, so they translated as “God” instead of “Gods.”

This also applies to the arabic language because they use the plural of respect when metioning Allah.

The fact that there are two forms of plural from the bible, as seen in genesis, tells us that this grammar usage was well in existance for thousands of years.

 

[inJESUS]

No the rabbis do not agree that there is a plural of respect in Hebrew Bible , actually this plural use resulted in many debates as to why, and they did not reach a conclusion.

 

[inJESUS]

As to why Allah asks angels to bow down to humans, that’s because Muhammad took it from a Jewish apocrypha:

The Life of Adam and Eve

“ Then Michael came; he summoned all the troops of angels and told them, “Bow down before the likeness and the image of the divinity.” And then, when Michael summoned them and all had bowed down to you, he summoned me [Satan] also. And I told him, "Go away from me, for I shall not bow down to him who is younger than me; indeed, I am master prior to him and it is proper for him to bow down to me.

 

[inJESUS]

As to naming the animals:

The wisdom of Adam displayed itself to greatest advantage when he gave names to the animals. . . . But without the gift of the holy spirit, Adam could not have found names for all.

Louis Ginzberg. The Legends of the Jews: From the Creation to Jacob. chapter

 

[IHSpetros]

No the rabbis do not agree that there is a plural of respect in Hebrew Bible , actually this plural use resulted in many debates as to why, and they did not reach a conclusion.

Just look at the grammar, Eloah is singular and Elohim is plural, so you HAVE to use the plural of respect instead of plural of numbers, otherwise, you would have Gen 1:1 read as “Gods” instead of “God.” Also, would you care to substantiate your claim as to the rabbis not agreeing on the plural of respect.

 

[inJESUS]

Just look at the grammar, Eloah is singular and Elohim is plural, so you HAVE to use the plural of respect instead of plural of numbers, otherwise, you would have Gen 1:1 read as “Gods” instead of “God.” Also, would you care to substantiate your claim as to the rabbis not agreeing on the plural of respect.

if the royal we exists in the Hebrew language, the rabbis would have agreed on the use of “we” instead of trying to find a thousand reason from God speaking to creation to God is addressing the angels around his throne to God was speaking to the souls of the righteous unborn to God keeping his own counsel to God talking to His Word (Memra) to The royal “we”—plural of majesty . Ibn Ezra who suggested that the plural of Genesis 1:26 is the plural of majesty, he refuted that view in favor of God having consulted the angels.

(A. E. Cowley, ed., Oxford, 1976 , p.398) : The use of the plural as a form of respectful address is quite foreign to Hebrew,".

In Arabic, there is no royal we grammaticaly ; when you use the “we”, the verb is plural, not singular and the rest of the sentence is plural that’s because the “we” is used for more than 1 person. Hebrew and Arabic do not use first person plural to denote respect.